Cute fox... Really makes me hope we'll see more of Olivia.

Really cute chapter. Hope we see Olivia again. She's like a second daughter, no? Unless I'm mixing up names and events. It's touching that she's been watching over her "mother."

Internalized homophobia is a possible, and probably optimistic considering the alternatives, explanation of why the author might have no issue painting this outcome as a good one in the story she writes.

No, it's not. Random assumptions based on very little isn't better than saying nothing. Just because a hypothetical sounds nice in writing doesn't make it more likely. There is nothing to go off of for this kind of leap. Limited data is a severe understatement. Even floating the idea of this is already much.

last edited at Dec 16, 2024 9:30AM

Gosh, I understand why people would have reservations about papa smolett (honestly from my perspective its less about him being bigoted and more about having a hard time letting go) but can we not make wild assumptions about the author? D: feels a little strange considering she is really active in the pbmmv discord and you can just talk to her there yourself instead of doing what amounts to armchair psychoanalysis of someone you've never met.

not to mention, conflict in a story is normal. papa smolett was never going to accept anyone right away, even Elsa. this bit is just as much about him learning to let go of his daughter as much as anything else, and I think that is an idea that is worth exploring, no matter how uncomfortable it might get.

Besides, look at him! He's warming up to the idea. The man would love to have two daughters, lol.

not to mention, conflict in a story is normal. papa smolett was never going to accept anyone right away, even Elsa

This isn't about the character. He's flawed, which was predictable, and he can change. I mean, I hate the guy because fuck bigots, because he won't get redeemed before he changes his ways regarding same-sex couples in general and not about Elsa specifically. Even if it wasn't about same-sex couples, the argument "you must continue the bloodline" is also one I despise, since whether to have children is a choice people, not their parents, ought to make. But hating a character is no reason to hate the story or doubt the author.

The reason some people are upset is that the author chose to address the plot point "I can't accept my daughter to be with a woman because I want grandchildren" with a resolution that specifically excludes RL lesbians and invalidates their relationships, without the slightest hint or message that "must have biological children" is not a good argument to attack people ; quite the opposite, the choice of having the plot point resolved with "it's okay because they actually can have magical children", and not any of the myriad of other reasons that could have been used and would actually make the readers included, feels like an attack against those who live in a world without that ability.

Feel free to ask the author yourself and enlighten us, personally, I don't make a habit to jump into communities I'm not part of to ask sensitive questions.

What, you mean the fantasy setting manga is using the mgical children route ? How dare they.

Really cute chapter. Hope we see Olivia again. She's like a second daughter, no? Unless I'm mixing up names and events. It's touching that she's been watching over her "mother."

IIRC she is less daughter and more "unlucky childhood friend". Evie's mom and Olivia were both acolytes of the Saint back in their youth, and I am assuming that Olivia caught feelings for her best friend that have never gone away.

last edited at Dec 16, 2024 1:00PM

Really cute chapter. Hope we see Olivia again. She's like a second daughter, no? Unless I'm mixing up names and events. It's touching that she's been watching over her "mother."

IIRC she is less daughter and more "unlucky childhood friend". Evie's mom and Olivia were both acolytes of the Saint back in their youth, and I am assuming that Olivia caught feelings for her best friend that have never gone away.

Yeah, that feels right! Thanks. "Sisters" is better then, and anything else I guess we'll see. I'm glad she's making her comeback into the story.

last edited at Dec 16, 2024 1:10PM

Really cute chapter. Hope we see Olivia again. She's like a second daughter, no? Unless I'm mixing up names and events. It's touching that she's been watching over her "mother."

IIRC she is less daughter and more "unlucky childhood friend". Evie's mom and Olivia were both acolytes of the Saint back in their youth, and I am assuming that Olivia caught feelings for her best friend that have never gone away.

Yeah, that feels right! Thanks. "Sisters" is better then, and anything else I guess we'll see. I'm glad she's making her comeback into the story.

Relevant panel. Also, to correct myself, it's apparently "the Sage", not "the Saint", and Evie's mom is named Lena. :-)

last edited at Dec 16, 2024 1:36PM

Now that was an interesting visitor.

From Yvonne's point of view, Olivia is like an estranged aunt she didn't know she had.

It's either promoting a bad message, or insensitive of the author. Internalized homophobia is a possible, and probably optimistic considering the alternatives, explanation of why the author might have no issue painting this outcome as a good one in the story she writes.

It’s not fair to just make negative implications about the author based on how they portray an issue in the story. It could easily just be that they wanted the readers to know the girls can have bio kids and they didn’t think about how someone could get upset with that

And to make it obvious : few people are going to be happy reading a story that sends the message "the kind of relationship you're in is okay but only because of [reasons that don't apply to you]".

You say it yourself,

“And this story isn't a a "this is a cynical and dark irony world" where a bitter compromise would be the expected outcome of conflicts”

So it’s silly to make these assumptions when first of all, we don’t know the author. I doubt you know their socials, or seen their other works (do they have other stuff??) or have any other “proof” that paints them as a homophobe other than you taking this scene in the worse light possible

What you’re doing is making assumptions about the author based on how you interpret a scene in the story and essentially implying that there’s a non zero chance that the author is an internalized homophobe for presenting the resolution to a conflict in a way that can be taken negatively

It’s so very clearly not a serious series, YOU even acknowledge this, so I can’t fathom how you don’t just give the author the benefit of the doubt and assume they didn’t think about the potential negative implications.

you’re actively trying to see things in a negative light just from this ONE scene. I doubt an actual homophobe (which you imply the author could be one) would spend time writing a story about two women getting together, having it be adapted into a webcomic (web series?), with the end goal of them getting together.

Is this a common thing or smthn? Yuri writers actually hating gay ppl?? What precedent was set that makes the author being a homophobe a more logical assumption than them just not thinking how negatively the interaction can be interpreted

From Yvonne's point of view, Olivia is like an estranged aunt she didn't know she had.

Is Olivia the Nun from the orphan? Or is she someone else?

From Yvonne's point of view, Olivia is like an estranged aunt she didn't know she had.

Is Olivia the Nun from the orphan? Or is she someone else?

She is the half-demon girl who was behind the demon attack on the orphanage.

I actually like homophobia as a plot element in the yaoi/yuri manga I read. It adds some drama and conflict to the story and makes it feel more realistic, because as an LGBT person I can safely say that the world does indeed have a lot of homophobia and it's a common experience shared by most if not all LGBT people especially in Japan where these stories are made. Honestly it's always felt strange to me that the same-sex love stories that I'm supposed to get immersed in and believe always feature so little homophobia in them. From a literary standpoint its an interesting change of pace that I'm enjoying reading.

Also, enjoying reading about struggles involving homophobia doesn't make one a bigot, unless you're going to sit there and tell me that enjoying To Kill A Mockingbird makes someone racist.

Honestly it's always felt strange to me that the same-sex love stories that I'm supposed to get immersed in and believe always feature so little homophobia in them. From a literary standpoint its an interesting change of pace that I'm enjoying reading.

I feel like the reaction that we got in the comments is a perfect reason why most gay love stories don’t have homophobia in them…

People in the comments get mad from seeing it, they get mad if it’s not handled in a way they like, they get mad and assume the author is a homophobe because of the scene or because of how the resolution is written.

He didn’t even say he was against them cuz they’re women, like another person said, “He clearly said that his concerns were merely over the protection and happiness of his daughter”

For some folks, anything short of immediate declarations of support is homophobia and homophobes should die, and if the author has a character who expresses homophobic views/talking points, the author must be a homophobe as well.

Even having a decent reason to not support the relationship, like “I won’t be able to protect you if something goes wrong, I don’t want you to get hurt” makes someone a bigot.

When it comes to sensitive topics, some ppl will get mad at anything if it’s not an opinion they agree with or if they don’t like how it’s presented (which, even if it was presented in the best of ways, there’s still gonna be ppl upset) and some of these same people immediately jump to extremes

If I was a yuri writer, I’d avoid the hassle by removing the homophobia aspect entirely.

If I’m writing yuri, I simply just wanna write a cute love story between women. I’d rather avoid doing something to piss people off, cuz I don’t want to get harassed, and I don’t wanna deal with ppl slandering me by calling me a homophobe and a bigot cuz those terms could be a turn off to potential readers

I’d either have to just decide that I’m not gonna care about readers getting offended and write however I want, or stick with something simple

I’m sure some stories do have homophobia as a plot device but I don’t think I’ve seen any of those stories here

Also, enjoying reading about struggles involving homophobia doesn't make one a bigot, unless you're going to sit there and tell me that enjoying To Kill A Mockingbird makes someone racist.

I feel like there are some people who unironically think enjoying this stuff as a narrative makes you a bigot

The dad's internal monologue makes it clear he was just coming up with reasons to be against their relationship because he was anxious about his daughter going away, stop making a mountain out of a molehill.

internalized hoophobia...You spelled internalized homophobia wrong in one post by accident...Sorry for being a grammar nazi XD
internalized homophobia Definition (Seems to be mostly focus on gay/lesbian people themselves but can be applied to hetero types??): when a person is subject to society's negative perceptions, intolerance, and stigma toward people with same-sex attraction. They then turn those ideas inward, believing that they are true, and experience self-hatred as a result of being a socially stigmatized person.
Other definition from Go*gle-sensei: Internalized homophobia refers to negative stereotypes, beliefs, stigma, and prejudice about homosexuality and LGBTQ people that a person with same-sex attraction turns inward on themselves, whether or not they identify as LGBT.

"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing."-- Best quote about Wisdom.
If you want to skip my stupid random rant and post that I type out due to my stupid brain and impulse then scroll to the bottom of my post for the TL; DR version.

Everyone is allowed their own opinion and reasons for not liking a story or parts of a story...But let's not make assumptions about the authors just based on their stories or their writing stories okay?
If that was true then The author of [Game of Throne] would be a PDF for writing so many R@pe scene regarding young underage girls in magic fantasy medieval settings, also racism elements in book or cartoon doesn't mean the author/creator has does view of racism like Star-fire experiencing Racism from another alien hero calling her Truuck...It would be like saying the video game creator of violence shooter games are murderers or that people that play violent shooter games are psychos (It the opposite...The psycho just like to pay the shooter games as well) XD
Yes an author's story or writing style can have subtle influence of their own life experience but some author has little to no life experience and just use their imagination (+ Experience of reading other books, anime, games).

Yes...I guess you can 'argue' that the father might have some prejudices or tiny bit of 'homophobia' views but on a scale from 1 to 10 on Homophobia levels...He would be a 1 or 1.5 at most in my eyes/view. I seen way much worse parents or characters...If he had show disgust, hatred or was throwing out the F slurs then he would be at least a 5-6+ on the scale...Which would be funny if you think about it since F slurs in magic fantasy world would not make sense since that is a modern slur. It more like Daddy protective instincts kicking in.

MC's father would annoyed and angry that his daughter was engaged to the ['PRINCE'] of the kingdom, thinking the prince is not good enough for his daughter and basically seems to be going along with the engagement to due Social pressure + Best possible choice...He was not going to like any males at all unless the male was a perfect elite god in human form basically. Thankfully MC's father is not making a fuss or is actually finding the idea/situation to be actually decent [Recent newest chapter].

Everyone is free to hate or dislike the father for his words, statements or etc. It is freedom of speech (As long nothing hateful or violence death threats)...But it is also freedom of speech to be to be criticized if there are flaws or holes in their statements. At best the Father deserves a hard slap to the head according to my views but I guess people are free to think and feel he deserve not to forgiven.
Once again, it your own emotions, you are free to hate or be annoyed by what happen in a story....As long you don't start spouting out death threats to the author and other people and trying to force your own opinion onto your people (Don't be like those dumb brain dead Twi*ter people...). Though yes, I guess even tiny bit example of homophobia scenes can be triggering or upsetting to some people...after all, some the scenes or description of 'UN-LIFE URSELF' or torture can be very mentally or emotionally upsetting for many people as well...

For example of much worse scenes that could be classified as 'homophobia' or internalized Homophobia:
.
'The Results of My Author/Classmate Discovering My Yuri Obsession'-- Warning, spoilers I guess...Example of a level 3-4 scale homophobia scene.
The pink hair girl's parents obviously have some homophobia views and ideas that hurt their daughter unintentionally, talking smack about the yuri couple that had broken up that pink hair girl is friends with, claiming it was just a phrase and glad she came to her senses, etc.
This does not mean the author is has homophobia or homophobia views, but more like use it to show the reasoning behind pink hair girl's stupid actions (Can be technically Internal homophobia she has example since she has shame and guilt due to seeing her friend's yuri relationship fail...Basically hurting another friend that she could have been involved with romantically due to her own ego and actions...).

For 'Owl House' cartoon--
There is absolutely nothing homophobia or internal homophobia...Which is probably easy to do when considering most of the creatures or people there are basically magic and mythical types...Being gay is not a big deal when MC reveals she has a crush on another girl to her friend/Teacher figure. People there in that series has different types of bodies...Being gay is the least of everyone concerns and would honestly be stupid to put in considering the setting.

Winter before spring webtoon (Decent webtoon I read 1-2 year ago): SPOILER BELOW:
Some of the comments were claiming the MC had internalized homophobia when she freak out about discovering the book she was reading with someone had a Yuri/lesbian scene(It was pretty obvious lol), freaking out and trying to make excuses how she didn't know and then Cliff happen...I want to say to the commentator...I don't think MC has internalized Homophobia...She is just fking Traumatized and emotional abused after her 1st crush and relationship fking failed and got destroyed in the worse way possible by false accusation of being an abuser. MC was fine with seeing other yuri/lesbian couples, no disgust or discomfort but when it came to herself she probably just freak out due to not wanting to ruin another good relationship----Basically traumatized by her former crush/BFF

A random very old movie I seen while I was channel surfing when I was a young kid (SPOILER BELOW FOR RANDOM MOVIE THAT I DON'T KNOW NAME OF.):
(Only seen the start then the end, probably got bored with it when switch back to see the ending). Cheerleader got told and finally realize she was gay/Lesbian by her friend and family (Had a poster of a hot girl in swimsuit inside of her locker), she had a boyfriend and everything but found kissing her boyfriend to just be annoying and didn't feel that good (She was trying to argue and explain she wasn't gay till eventually she discover that she was by her parents and friend argument and points)...==What did the parents and friend do to so-called fix this issue/realization.They send her to some messed up converting therapy lesson thingy to make her not gay and be straight. I was like---WTF---yeah real support parents and friend there I thought internally (I was of the opinion of let people do or be what they want as long as no gets hurt at the time)==...This would be a example of at least 7-8 homophobia scale out of 10...Thankfully the movie had a good cute ending when I switch back to the channel to caught the ending.

[TL;DR version below(Too long didn't read above)]:
Basically, let not make assumptions about the author and let not start arguments [try to get along or at least be civil?], everyone is entitled to their own opinions, thoughts and words(Freedom of speech) due or depending on their own life experience/view points XD

this a common thing or smthn? Yuri writers actually hating gay ppl?? What precedent was set that makes the author being a homophobe a more logical assumption than them just not thinking how negatively the interaction can be interpreted

** Hits blunt **
Yuri manga is a long form propaganda machine funded by "them" to oppress the gays.
The signs are all around us. What's this site called? Dynasty scans. What's a dynasty? A family lineage that passes down its bloodline.
Makes you think, doesn't it?