On a serious note, Yuni hasn't completely figured out her feelings but she, or at least her subconscious knows that with Fuuko, she feels seen. And that's why her impulses are drawn towards Fuuko even though she hasn't completely put the pieces together. Whether that becomes love or not remains to be seen.

Are you telling me Nanase didn't see the McDonald's with the giant ass sign?

Oh well she had it coming. Now Yuni must run to her side squeeze to get comforted because of her evil girlfriend. How dare she not find her fast enough

Yeah Fuuko is obviously not making a booty call here and that's not why Yuni's going to meet up with her. Comments acting like it's simply "cheating time again" or something makes me wonder if they're reading the text or just looking at the (very well-drawn) pictures.>

I don't think anyone is saying that Fuuko called her for that purpose. Fuuko even acknowledged that she is scum by wishing the baby turns out differently. She might actually learn and grow.

Yet Yuni, well, she is still Yuni. She did without doubt run away to do whatever Fuuko wants to do. While Nanase was still trying to find her. Total asshole move, and I would expect nothing else from her character.

Yuni and Nanase should break up, but after Nanase gave her another chance, she could at least show the bare minimum of respect for a person who cares for her.

Yeah Fuuko is obviously not making a booty call here and that's not why Yuni's going to meet up with her. Comments acting like it's simply "cheating time again" or something makes me wonder if they're reading the text or just looking at the (very well-drawn) pictures.>

I don't think anyone is saying that Fuuko called her for that purpose. Fuuko even acknowledged that she is scum by wishing the baby turns out differently. She might actually learn and grow.

Yet Yuni, well, she is still Yuni. She did without doubt run away to do whatever Fuuko wants to do. While Nanase was still trying to find her. Total asshole move, and I would expect nothing else from her character.

Yuni and Nanase should break up, but after Nanase gave her another chance, she could at least show the bare minimum of respect for a person who cares for her.

Exactly my thought process too! Yuni really doesn't deserve any of them in my mind

Oof I hate Fuuko's mom and I laughed when she complained saying "My sons do nothing but work!"

Yeah, no shit you cruel bitch. Guess whose fault is that? lol

Go study your modern japanese and be a lesbian, Fuuko.

last edited at Mar 22, 2024 8:49AM

People talk about "deserve" way too much with romance, it's kinda gross ngl. Nobody "deserves" any romantic relationship, they aren't something you can earn. They are a matter of two (or more) people consenting to be with each other and clearly Fuuko does not share in these extremely negative interpretations of Yuni's character.

People talk about "deserve" way too much with romance, it's kinda gross ngl. Nobody "deserves" any romantic relationship, they aren't something you can earn. They are a matter of two (or more) people consenting to be with each other and clearly Fuuko does not share in these extremely negative interpretations of Yuni's character.

Well, go ahead and share some of her positive qualities with us. I'm curious to hear about them, especially since even the author describes her negatively. Then, explain to us how someone who was forgiven for cheating and then betrays that trust again at the first chance can still be considered a good person.

People talk about "deserve" way too much with romance, it's kinda gross ngl. Nobody "deserves" any romantic relationship, they aren't something you can earn. They are a matter of two (or more) people consenting to be with each other and clearly Fuuko does not share in these extremely negative interpretations of Yuni's character.

For many readers, the game of "who's the good one, who's the bad one?" never gets old. Yuni cheats, therefore Nanase can't also be a mediocre girlfriend, etc.

As to Yuni's "good points," she's lonely, subby, and Fuuko finds her hot. Lifelong marriages have been built on less.

last edited at Mar 22, 2024 10:20AM

People talk about "deserve" way too much with romance, it's kinda gross ngl. Nobody "deserves" any romantic relationship, they aren't something you can earn. They are a matter of two (or more) people consenting to be with each other and clearly Fuuko does not share in these extremely negative interpretations of Yuni's character.

i don't think "deserve" when used in the framework of romance really has any ties to ownership or entitlement or anything like that--which is what this feels like its implying since you said "consent."

i think it's really about the effort someone puts into the relationship that calls for the use of the word..like a person telling their friend that their ex didn't "deserve" her; i think it's about that ex not doing enough to make them happy, make the relationship work, etc.; the ex didn't do enough to be by their side.

Comedy gold.

Yup. That's the stuff I come for at this point. What a weird, forced reason to initiate this development, "the >bad< girlfriend is suddenly absolutely miserable with directions oh no". The first part of the chapter was actually quite cute though, against at least some of the odds.

I wouldn't call her asshole-ish, I'd call her... passionate lol. She's obviously flawed, I'd imagine she's been working through the last few chapters' events in her head wondering what she did wrong. Wouldn't be surprised if "being too demanding and confrontational" comes out as the conclusion, she pushed to try to end things definitively before Yuni was quite ready to move on, which shows Fuuko in retrospect to be less manipulative than she previously came across as. She wasn't winning because she's a puppet master making Yuni dance to her tune, she was winning because Yuni really did want her, and she stopped winning because Yuni flinched out of guilt for being a "cheater".

Yes I do actually agree with a lot of this. But also, chapter 17 exists ahaha. I call that crossing the line, you call it being passionate, but hey it's all good.

People talk about "deserve" way too much with romance, it's kinda gross ngl. Nobody "deserves" any romantic relationship, they aren't something you can earn. They are a matter of two (or more) people consenting to be with each other and clearly Fuuko does not share in these extremely negative interpretations of Yuni's character.

Well, go ahead and share some of her positive qualities with us. I'm curious to hear about them, especially since even the author describes her negatively. Then, explain to us how someone who was forgiven for cheating and then betrays that trust again at the first chance can still be considered a good person.

The reasons why Fuuko likes her are probably not going to be universal values that you share, but that's because Fuuko is a different person from you presumably. As for the specifics of those reasons, this is a matter of interpretation/speculation, but:
1) Fuuko spent a lot of time reading Yuni's twitter account, seeing her complain about her gf and feeling lonely and neglected. Fuuko probably saw Yuni as a kindred fellow spirit as a lonely neglected teen lesbian. Nobody likes feeling isolated and that goes like 10x for teenagers.
2) Hot
3) Very sexually compatible
4) In cheating on her official gf, Yuni made Fuuko feel very valued, because it looks like Yuni thought Fuuko was worth breaking rules and getting hated by annoying Internet commentors in order to spend time with her.

last edited at Mar 31, 2024 6:29PM

Ah, I see. So, a bunch of pretty shallow arguments. And least that fits the character.

It's quite amusing how Yuni, a character who hasn't experienced much development throughout the story, she remains consistent as a selfish individual from start to finish. And despite the author's clear intention of depicting her as annoying and unlikeable, some readers perceive her as simply a typical hormonal teenager. The author even referred to her as a "pain in the ass" and say she imbued her with all the negative traits she typically associated with women. Defending such a character appears odd to me.

Hormonal teenagers ARE a pain in the ass lol. And I don't particularly care about defending a character so much as I can't comprehend "attacking" her. She's a well written complex flawed character. She's not failing to meet any of the requirements of a character, even if she's definitely failing to meet the requirements of an "ethical girlfriend," cuz this ain't a story about ethical girlfriends. Tbh, a story about ethical girlfriends sounds pretty boring. Yuni's job as a character is to be interesting and entertaining, and imo she's doing great at that.

Hormonal teenagers ARE a pain in the ass lol. And I don't particularly care about defending a character so much as I can't comprehend "attacking" her. She's a well written complex flawed character. She's not failing to meet any of the requirements of a character, even if she's definitely failing to meet the requirements of an "ethical girlfriend," cuz this ain't a story about ethical girlfriends. Tbh, a story about ethical girlfriends sounds pretty boring. Yuni's job as a character is to be interesting and entertaining, and imo she's doing great at that.

Yeah, she's great. I'm also a bit confused by the suggestion that Yuni hasn't received much development. I'm not sure what that might mean. She may not have developed in the way some might want but that's not a requirement for narrative development. She's had the most development, rivaled only by her "partner in crime."

last edited at Apr 1, 2024 9:27AM

Hormonal teenagers ARE a pain in the ass lol. And I don't particularly care about defending a character so much as I can't comprehend "attacking" her. She's a well written complex flawed character. She's not failing to meet any of the requirements of a character, even if she's definitely failing to meet the requirements of an "ethical girlfriend," cuz this ain't a story about ethical girlfriends. Tbh, a story about ethical girlfriends sounds pretty boring. Yuni's job as a character is to be interesting and entertaining, and imo she's doing great at that.

I suppose by this definition, most of the stories on this site are pretty boring.

Hormonal teenagers ARE a pain in the ass lol. And I don't particularly care about defending a character so much as I can't comprehend "attacking" her. She's a well written complex flawed character. She's not failing to meet any of the requirements of a character, even if she's definitely failing to meet the requirements of an "ethical girlfriend," cuz this ain't a story about ethical girlfriends. Tbh, a story about ethical girlfriends sounds pretty boring. Yuni's job as a character is to be interesting and entertaining, and imo she's doing great at that.

Yeah, she's great. I'm also a bit confused by the suggestion that Yuni hasn't received much development. I'm not sure what that might mean. She may not have developed in the way some might want but that's not a requirement for narrative development. She's had the most development, rivaled only by her "partner in crime."

It's the traditional equivocation/ambiguity/confusion between "character development" defined as;

• Character grows and changes as a person (presumptively for "the better," whatever that may mean in a given context) because of experiences in the story

• Different aspects of a character are revealed or explained

The first one is something the character (i.e., the imaginary person) does, the second is done by the author to the character for the sake of readers.

Since I have little interest in characters as imaginary friends and I do care about how stories are told, I generally don't have much investment in whether an imaginary person "changes for the better" or not.

Hormonal teenagers ARE a pain in the ass lol. And I don't particularly care about defending a character so much as I can't comprehend "attacking" her. She's a well written complex flawed character. She's not failing to meet any of the requirements of a character, even if she's definitely failing to meet the requirements of an "ethical girlfriend," cuz this ain't a story about ethical girlfriends. Tbh, a story about ethical girlfriends sounds pretty boring. Yuni's job as a character is to be interesting and entertaining, and imo she's doing great at that.

Yeah, she's great. I'm also a bit confused by the suggestion that Yuni hasn't received much development. I'm not sure what that might mean. She may not have developed in the way some might want but that's not a requirement for narrative development. She's had the most development, rivaled only by her "partner in crime."

It's the traditional equivocation/ambiguity/confusion between "character development" defined as;

• Character grows and changes as a person (presumptively for "the better," whatever that may mean in a given context) because of experiences in the story

• Different aspects of a character are revealed or explained

The first one is something the character (i.e., the imaginary person) does, the second is done by the author to the character for the sake of readers.

Since I have little interest in characters as imaginary friends and I do care about how stories are told, I generally don't have much investment in whether an imaginary person "changes for the better" or not.

Definitely. I picked up on that too.

I don't believe these arguments were made in good faith. My use of the term "development" clearly referred to the growth and change of a character as a person due to experiences within the story - character development. My argument was entirely consistent with that definition. I pointed out that Yuni remains as selfish now as she was at the start, illustrating a lack of character growth or change. This seems like a deliberate misinterpretation of my words.

I don't believe these arguments were made in good faith. My use of the term "development" clearly referred to the growth and change of a character as a person due to experiences within the story - character development. My argument was entirely consistent with that definition. I pointed out that Yuni remains as selfish now as she was at the start, illustrating a lack of character growth or change. This seems like a deliberate misinterpretation of my words.

Yuni has changed. She is not the same person now as she was before. She has developed quite a bit. No matter which angle we attack this from, your clarification doesn't change much. Whether you're realizing it or not, your choice of words seems to imply a certain idea about what counts as development. I also don't know why anyone would deliberately misinterpret something. We don't even know each other and it's a relaxed, casual discussion. Why would anyone do that?

last edited at Apr 1, 2024 5:03PM

Yuni is maybe selfish, but the author also gave her guilt and gave her empathy. Sometimes, people can't help but do selfish things and are rattled with guilt, but they would do it again because there's something deeper compelling them.

Yuni is more complex than people give her credit for, because they're furious at her cheating. I seriously don't get why people get mad at fictional characters for cheating on their partner. They get invested emotionally in a cheating that has actually nothing to do with them, like they project hard on the characters. It's unhealthy.

Take the characters as what they are: fictional. Relax and enjoy the drama.

Hormonal teenagers ARE a pain in the ass lol. And I don't particularly care about defending a character so much as I can't comprehend "attacking" her. She's a well written complex flawed character. She's not failing to meet any of the requirements of a character, even if she's definitely failing to meet the requirements of an "ethical girlfriend," cuz this ain't a story about ethical girlfriends. Tbh, a story about ethical girlfriends sounds pretty boring. Yuni's job as a character is to be interesting and entertaining, and imo she's doing great at that.

I suppose by this definition, most of the stories on this site are pretty boring.

A manga can have ethical girlfriends without the story being about ethical girlfriends. I don't think there's anything morally questionable to the relationship in "The Guy She Was Interested in Wasn't a Guy At All" for example (despite the occasional transphobic rhetoric that would pop up in the comments early on of people accusing Mitsuki of "tricking" Aya about her "real" gender). But it's not a story about ethical or unethical behavior it's a story about two punk teenagers who felt isolated finding solidarity and romance and learning to express themselves through Western rock music.

I don't believe these arguments were made in good faith. My use of the term "development" clearly referred to the growth and change of a character as a person due to experiences within the story - character development. My argument was entirely consistent with that definition. I pointed out that Yuni remains as selfish now as she was at the start, illustrating a lack of character growth or change. This seems like a deliberate misinterpretation of my words.

"Could I be wrong or expressed myself poorly? No, it is the entire rest of the comment thread who deliberately misinterpreted me"

last edited at Apr 1, 2024 3:22PM

I don't believe these arguments were made in good faith. My use of the term "development" clearly referred to the growth and change of a character as a person due to experiences within the story - character development. My argument was entirely consistent with that definition. I pointed out that Yuni remains as selfish now as she was at the start, illustrating a lack of character growth or change. This seems like a deliberate misinterpretation of my words.

Project about "bad faith" much? The entire story is about Yuni's changes as a character--her discovery of what she does and doesn't want in a relationship, of her own sexual proclivities, etc.

You started this discussion by demanding that readers enumerate Yuni's positive qualities, and then promptly scorned the answers as "shallow arguments," as if only those aspects of Yuni's character that meet your personal moral standards really count as "development."

To me the expectation that a character must become a "better person" epitomizes a shallow conception of what "character development" means.

I don't believe these arguments were made in good faith. My use of the term "development" clearly referred to the growth and change of a character as a person due to experiences within the story - character development. My argument was entirely consistent with that definition. I pointed out that Yuni remains as selfish now as she was at the start, illustrating a lack of character growth or change. This seems like a deliberate misinterpretation of my words.

Project about "bad faith" much? The entire story is about Yuni's changes as a character--her discovery of what she does and doesn't want in a relationship, of her own sexual proclivities, etc.

You started this discussion by demanding that readers enumerate Yuni's positive qualities, and then promptly scorned the answers as "shallow arguments," as if only those aspects of Yuni's character that meet your personal moral standards really count as "development."

To me the expectation that a character must become a "better person" epitomizes a shallow conception of what "character development" means.

I believe you're arguing in bad faith, Blaastar, and persisting in doing so.

I presented an argument about how I perceive Yuni's lack of significant character development since the beginning of the story. You came in asserting that I'm using the term incorrectly, despite your argument being unrelated to what I was trying to convey, as I further clarified in my subsequent post. I don't think it's necessary to continue debating that point.

I firmly believe that an argument based solely on physical attractiveness and sexual compatibility is superficial. Let's agree to disagree on that.

Whether the character development is positive or negative doesn't matter; there's no inherent morality to it. Thus far, I haven't seen any convincing arguments that Yuni has changed. She still exhibits self-centered behavior, lacks communication skills, blames others, and is willing to disregard others' feelings. Moreover, I haven't observed her expressing any sense of remorse in her actions or thoughts, whereas for instance Fuuko has demonstrated meaningful character growth.

Yuri_book_club posted:

Whether the character development is positive or negative doesn't matter; there's no inherent morality to it. Thus far, I haven't seen any convincing arguments that Yuni has changed. She still exhibits self-centered behavior, lacks communication skills, blames others, and is willing to disregard others' feelings. Moreover, I haven't observed her expressing any sense of remorse in her actions or thoughts, whereas for instance Fuuko has demonstrated meaningful character growth.

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/my_girlfriends_not_here_today_ch21#4
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/my_girlfriends_not_here_today_ch21#26
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/my_girlfriends_not_here_today_ch21#25
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/my_girlfriends_not_here_today_ch23#23

Sorry, I call this "character development". In the previous chapters, Yuni felt guilt because she was cheating on Nanase.

In later chapters, she now clearly feels guilt and remorse because she wronged Fuuko as much as she wronged Nanase, so she's wavering in her previous decision to stick with Nanase. She's not blaming Fuuko or Nanase anymore, she's blaming herself.

She's not so "self-centered" as you make her out to be. She evolved from "bitching on twitter about her gf" to "Maybe I went too far and hurt people". You can eventually pretend it's for self-satisfaction, but then it'd mean admitting that Yuni's character has depth. You have your own anti-Yuni bias and you refuse to see any depth in her character. It's your right, but there's no one more blind than one who refuses to see.

last edited at Apr 2, 2024 7:29AM

Yuri_book_club posted:

Whether the character development is positive or negative doesn't matter; there's no inherent morality to it. Thus far, I haven't seen any convincing arguments that Yuni has changed. She still exhibits self-centered behavior, lacks communication skills, blames others, and is willing to disregard others' feelings. Moreover, I haven't observed her expressing any sense of remorse in her actions or thoughts, whereas for instance Fuuko has demonstrated meaningful character growth.

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/my_girlfriends_not_here_today_ch21#4
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/my_girlfriends_not_here_today_ch21#26
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/my_girlfriends_not_here_today_ch21#25
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/my_girlfriends_not_here_today_ch23#23

Sorry, I call this "character development". In the previous chapters, Yuni felt guilt because she was cheating on Nanase.

In later chapters, she now clearly feels guilt and remorse because she wronged Fuuko as much as she wronged Nanase, so she's wavering in her previous decision to stick with Nanase. She's not blaming Fuuko or Nanase anymore, she's blaming herself.

She's not so "self-centered" as you make her out to be. She evolved from "bitching on twitter about her gf" to "Maybe I went too far and hurt people". You can eventually pretend it's for self-satisfaction, but then it'd mean admitting that Yuni's character has depth. You have your own anti-Yuni bias and you refuse to see any depth in her character. It's your right, but there's no one more blind than one who refuses to see.

I appreciate that you're the first one to make an argument based on the source material, and that's commendable. I'm open to changing my opinion or conceding a point if the argument has merit.

However, all of your links are about Yuni feeling guilty about hurting Fuuko, and I don't see how that indicates genuine remorse on her part. She seems more concerned about not choosing Fuuko rather than hurting her girlfriend. So the argument is that because she feels remorseful about hurting Fuuko, who was her partner in crime and was acting like a crazy person, that somehow demonstrates her character development? She's suddenly full of empathy and remorse, and she's grown so much?

It's true that Yuni did acknowledge that she may have gone too far, which she definitely did. The way she and Fuuko acted was pretty disgusting. But there hasn't been any significant follow-up on that, even though Nanase is trying to talk to her and give her a second chance. The latest we saw is Yuni running away to cheat again. So, nothing learned.

And, to be honest, I don't have a good opinion of Yuni. I wouldn't wish her as a girlfriend on my worst enemy. I don't see anything positive about her. She lacks interests, friends, or any discernible personality. She is needy to the extreme. Even Fuuko deserves better.