Yuri_book_club posted:

Whether the character development is positive or negative doesn't matter; there's no inherent morality to it. Thus far, I haven't seen any convincing arguments that Yuni has changed. She still exhibits self-centered behavior, lacks communication skills, blames others, and is willing to disregard others' feelings. Moreover, I haven't observed her expressing any sense of remorse in her actions or thoughts, whereas for instance Fuuko has demonstrated meaningful character growth.

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/my_girlfriends_not_here_today_ch21#4
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/my_girlfriends_not_here_today_ch21#26
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/my_girlfriends_not_here_today_ch21#25
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/my_girlfriends_not_here_today_ch23#23

Sorry, I call this "character development". In the previous chapters, Yuni felt guilt because she was cheating on Nanase.

In later chapters, she now clearly feels guilt and remorse because she wronged Fuuko as much as she wronged Nanase, so she's wavering in her previous decision to stick with Nanase. She's not blaming Fuuko or Nanase anymore, she's blaming herself.

She's not so "self-centered" as you make her out to be. She evolved from "bitching on twitter about her gf" to "Maybe I went too far and hurt people". You can eventually pretend it's for self-satisfaction, but then it'd mean admitting that Yuni's character has depth. You have your own anti-Yuni bias and you refuse to see any depth in her character. It's your right, but there's no one more blind than one who refuses to see.

I appreciate that you're the first one to make an argument based on the source material, and that's commendable. I'm open to changing my opinion or conceding a point if the argument has merit.

However, all of your links are about Yuni feeling guilty about hurting Fuuko, and I don't see how that indicates genuine remorse on her part. She seems more concerned about not choosing Fuuko rather than hurting her girlfriend. So the argument is that because she feels remorseful about hurting Fuuko, who was her partner in crime and was acting like a crazy person, that somehow demonstrates her character development? She's suddenly full of empathy and remorse, and she's grown so much?

It's true that Yuni did acknowledge that she may have gone too far, which she definitely did. The way she and Fuuko acted was pretty disgusting. But there hasn't been any significant follow-up on that, even though Nanase is trying to talk to her and give her a second chance. The latest we saw is Yuni running away to cheat again. So, nothing learned.

And, to be honest, I don't have a good opinion of Yuni. I wouldn't wish her as a girlfriend on my worst enemy. I don't see anything positive about her. She lacks interests, friends, or any discernible personality. She is needy to the extreme. Even Fuuko deserves better.

I don't believe these arguments were made in good faith. My use of the term "development" clearly referred to the growth and change of a character as a person due to experiences within the story - character development. My argument was entirely consistent with that definition. I pointed out that Yuni remains as selfish now as she was at the start, illustrating a lack of character growth or change. This seems like a deliberate misinterpretation of my words.

Project about "bad faith" much? The entire story is about Yuni's changes as a character--her discovery of what she does and doesn't want in a relationship, of her own sexual proclivities, etc.

You started this discussion by demanding that readers enumerate Yuni's positive qualities, and then promptly scorned the answers as "shallow arguments," as if only those aspects of Yuni's character that meet your personal moral standards really count as "development."

To me the expectation that a character must become a "better person" epitomizes a shallow conception of what "character development" means.

I believe you're arguing in bad faith, Blaastar, and persisting in doing so.

I presented an argument about how I perceive Yuni's lack of significant character development since the beginning of the story. You came in asserting that I'm using the term incorrectly, despite your argument being unrelated to what I was trying to convey, as I further clarified in my subsequent post. I don't think it's necessary to continue debating that point.

I firmly believe that an argument based solely on physical attractiveness and sexual compatibility is superficial. Let's agree to disagree on that.

Whether the character development is positive or negative doesn't matter; there's no inherent morality to it. Thus far, I haven't seen any convincing arguments that Yuni has changed. She still exhibits self-centered behavior, lacks communication skills, blames others, and is willing to disregard others' feelings. Moreover, I haven't observed her expressing any sense of remorse in her actions or thoughts, whereas for instance Fuuko has demonstrated meaningful character growth.

I don't believe these arguments were made in good faith. My use of the term "development" clearly referred to the growth and change of a character as a person due to experiences within the story - character development. My argument was entirely consistent with that definition. I pointed out that Yuni remains as selfish now as she was at the start, illustrating a lack of character growth or change. This seems like a deliberate misinterpretation of my words.

Ah, I see. So, a bunch of pretty shallow arguments. And least that fits the character.

It's quite amusing how Yuni, a character who hasn't experienced much development throughout the story, she remains consistent as a selfish individual from start to finish. And despite the author's clear intention of depicting her as annoying and unlikeable, some readers perceive her as simply a typical hormonal teenager. The author even referred to her as a "pain in the ass" and say she imbued her with all the negative traits she typically associated with women. Defending such a character appears odd to me.

Well, good and good I think the author should avoid dragging it out too much. Eventually, readers might get frustrated with the premise and Eri's character. Too much angst can become tiresome over time.

New chapter today! It's going to be exciting.

Absolutely, I'm curious to learn more about Miyeon too. At a surface level, I understand her character. She was deeply hurt and traumatized when Youngea left. But most people tend to move on with their lives after a breakup. They don't go out and groom a young child as an emotional crutch and later as a girlfriend. There are plenty of other ways to meet people – bars, dating apps and things like that.

But here's the thing: for such a great story – and it really is fantastic – the relationship between Youngea and Miyeon doesn't quite add up upon closer inspection. There's a sort of cognitive dissonance going on. Miyeon despises Youngea but can't seem to move on, while Youngea loves Miyeon but ends things because she wants it all and is greedy. She wants both the company and Miyeon. Yet, despite her actions, all Youngea can do is think about Miyeon. However, when they finally reunite after 5 years apart, Youngea doesn't even treat her that well.

It's clear that the author aimed to create a messy and complicated relationship where both Youngea and Miyeon share the blame. However, it could have been executed better. Individually, both Youngea and Miyeon are compelling characters with strong storylines. But when their relationship takes center stage, it becomes the weakest aspect of the narrative, in my opinion.

The notion that the guy – I can't recall his name either – is meant to pose a threat to Haegu seems rather absurd to me. However, the story has placed such emphasis on it that I'm concerned he might end up harming her in some way. Given the story's tragic tone, it wouldn't be surprising if that were to happen.

People talk about "deserve" way too much with romance, it's kinda gross ngl. Nobody "deserves" any romantic relationship, they aren't something you can earn. They are a matter of two (or more) people consenting to be with each other and clearly Fuuko does not share in these extremely negative interpretations of Yuni's character.

Well, go ahead and share some of her positive qualities with us. I'm curious to hear about them, especially since even the author describes her negatively. Then, explain to us how someone who was forgiven for cheating and then betrays that trust again at the first chance can still be considered a good person.

New chapter out!

I find the characters Minsung and Miyeon fascinating to read about, but they are truly unpleasant people. The fact that they can behave as if nothing is wrong highlights their lack of empathy, especially Miyeon, who seems devoid of normal human emotions. Let me provide an example to illustrate why she is so reprehensible. Besides the incest, child abuse, cheating and various of other things you will learn about in due time.

Miyeon and Youngea began dating in high school when they were around 16 years old, as seen in chapter 50. Typically, high school in Korea ends when students are 17 or 18. They continued their relationship until Miyeon met Minsung during her master's degree internship, which Youngea helped her secure. Miyeon would have been approximately 23 years old at that time, while Minsung was 7 years, as depicted in chapter 64. Youngea and Miyeon rescued Minsung from her abusive foster family, but it was primarily Youngea who made it happen. It would not have been possible without her, as she had the money and connections. They all moved to the USA and lived together for 6 years, as detailed in chapter 53.

Youngea leaves Miyeon while pregnant with their child, which is a terrible thing and a poorly constructed plotline, but let's set that aside for now. She is absent for 5 years before returning. This means that by that point, Youngea and Miyeon had been a couple for 13 years, while Minsung had referred to them both as mothers for 6 years. Upon her return, Minsung harbors resentment towards her out of jealousy. Despite this, Youngea and Miyeon reconnect and continue their relationship for another 5 years. Minsung stay in their house for the next 2 years. So, for 8 years Youngea was raising her.

So, Youngea and Miyeon have been a couple for approximately 18 years, during which time they had a daughter and adopted another. Despite their long history together, Miyeon still chose to hurt Youngea in the most painful way possible. That makes her evil in my book.

Yeah Fuuko is obviously not making a booty call here and that's not why Yuni's going to meet up with her. Comments acting like it's simply "cheating time again" or something makes me wonder if they're reading the text or just looking at the (very well-drawn) pictures.>

I don't think anyone is saying that Fuuko called her for that purpose. Fuuko even acknowledged that she is scum by wishing the baby turns out differently. She might actually learn and grow.

Yet Yuni, well, she is still Yuni. She did without doubt run away to do whatever Fuuko wants to do. While Nanase was still trying to find her. Total asshole move, and I would expect nothing else from her character.

Yuni and Nanase should break up, but after Nanase gave her another chance, she could at least show the bare minimum of respect for a person who cares for her.

I would have much more respect for the story if we actually got some normal human behavior for once. In many manga, characters often seem to accept things that would profoundly affect most people without much reaction. When you see your crush having sex with someone else, it should mess you up and change something. If that is the catalyst for Fuyuki dropping Eri as a bad apple, I will be so happy. Do we have any sort of indication about Eri's feelings from the text? All I can see is that she is not happy with the situation. But that does not mean love.

Has anyone read the last two chapters?

It's truly heartbreaking to see Youngae in such despair. She's deeply hurt by the thought that Miyeon and Minsung could hate her. I'm not sure what her plan was, but it appears to have failed miserably. It's evident that she was desperate to reunite her family, even though it's strange that she cares just as much about Minsung and Miyeon at this point. I suppose they were some kind of family, which makes it even sadder knowing what's to come.

Even after reading the raws and revisiting the story, I'm still struggling to understand the timeline and the relationship between Youngae and Miyeon. There's something about it that just doesn't add up. I can't comprehend why Youngae had to leave for five years, only to resume their relationship for another five years if Miyeon despises her.

Upon reading the story again, my perspective on certain things has shifted. I noticed that Miyeon was essentially, albeit unintentionally, grooming Minsung. She manipulated her into believing that she was the only one she could trust, and encouraged her to remain dependent like a child. It's incredibly twisted. I can't believe I forgot it. In my eyes, Miyeon has now become the main antagonist of the story. I can only imagine the damage she must have inflicted on a vulnerable child like Minsung. Taking in a child who lost her parents, suffered abuse from foster parents for years, and then molding her into an emotional crutch that can never leave her—that's deeply disturbing. Miyeon's actions demonstrate a severe lack of mental stability.

I agree with your assessment of the relationship between Miyeon and Youngae. It's clear that Youngae was constantly working to benefit Miyeon, whether it was helping her get into the PDH program, securing the adoption of Minsung, securing high-paying positions for her, or simply giving her undivided attention. Meanwhile, Miyeon appeared to be merely going along with the flow. She seemed resentful and distant towards Youngae, which suggests she resented the significant power imbalance in their relationship.

last edited at Mar 3, 2024 5:51AM

Oh sorry. No. I did not mean it like that. I more meant how they come together after being abandoned by their partners. It comes off as somewhat unhealthy. But I do think they are very adorable together and they are the couple who show the most amount of chemistry together.

I think it is very interesting how their relationship is perceived. I have seen a lot of comments, both in English and Korean, where people express disgust over their relationship. They are not daughter and mother by blood, but Minsung and Miyeon are widely seen as mother and daughter. Both by the readers and other people in the story. Both Juha and Youngae see their relationship in that light. But we know that Minsung never saw their relationship like that and was offended when Juha called Miyeon her mother. But she was adopted when she was 7, and she lived with Miyeon until she was in her 20s. So, for over 13 years their relationship was something like that. When I see the chapters where we see Miyeon and Minsung as a kid, I only see a parent with her child. She clearly acts like a mother figure. But then when Minsung gets older something changes and their relationship no longer can be defined in that manner. I hope that gets explored further. As it is pretty strange. But like I said before, when their relationship was redefined, there was some sort of mutual attraction, that was both physical and emotional. Miyeon did not see Minsung as her child, but rather as her partner. Like you say. I want to learn more about why that happened. I really wish we would get some sort of perspective on how they define their relationship.

As I am reading the story again, I must say that I have problems with understanding the relationship between Miyeon and Youngae. Miyeon clearly hates Youngae, and several times makes remarks about how she hates her relationship with Youngae. I think her being abandoned by Youngae must really have done a number on her psyche. The sad thing is that if she and Youngae communicated better a lot of pain could have been avoided.

last edited at Feb 20, 2024 10:23AM

Ok. Good to know. In that case I will try not to spoil anything. I must say that I am surprised how incestuous the author is keeping the story. Juha and Youngae. They couldn't try and keep it out of the family for once. I also think they are strangely cute together. The author was actually hinting their attraction from the very beginning. This author is really good at setting things up.

But I do want to see both of those characters happy. And I really can't see any scenario where those two will have a happy ending together. Youngae is still married and has the same problems that doomed her relationship with Miyeon. She still is not willing, or able, to sacrifice her position in society and the company to be an out and open lesbian. So, I feel like that is just setting the story up for further heartache. Moreover, I do think that Minsung and Miyeon will try and sabotage any sort of relationship they might have.

I started to read the story again. It has been over 1 year since I read the chapters at the start. So, I see that I had forgotten so many things. There are so many scenes almost scream that something is up. I do agree with you now about Miyeon and Minsung. Miyeon did not act like a mother. They way she was touching Minsung and talking about how she is the one she cares about the most was a dead giveaway now that you know what is coming. I might be overanalyzing. But I do think the author was hinting that Miyeon felt some sort of attraction. She was in any case hellbent on removing Juha from Minsung`s life and being the only person in her life. So, they are both pretty weird and their relationship is super unhealthy. In fact, I would say so far Miyeon is the closes the story gets to an antagonist. She was supposed to be the adult in the room.

Before I answer. Have you read the raws? I have. And I have thoughts, and many, so many, questions.

I want to say that I appreciate your perspective. I hope you will participate further in the discussion as more chapters are published. And I hope more people will join us. There are so many smart people on dynasty and I really want to hear their perspectives. If anyone is wondering if they want to read the story. I say go for it. This story is, in my opinion, exceptionally well-written. The story has plenty of humor, witty commentary, drama, engaging characters, and super toxic people and situations.

I think I have to read the story again. I do not trust my own memory, and I think I have missed a lot. But when I think about it, there are plenty of scenes that are very relevant for the discussion.

I think you hit the nail on its head when you called her vengeful. I almost want to edit the picture of the Somali pirate saying I am the captain now with the head of Minsung. There is this scene between Minsung and Youngae in the past, where Youngae is saying why are you (Minsung) acting like I am the other woman. I think from the perspective of Minsung she was the other woman. This is her vengeance for taking her woman. The chapter where she walks into the room and performance the most extreme Netorare I have ever seen in a yuri story was just rage made form. Your woman, my mother, is now mine. I am in charge. You will do as I say. You will never touch her again. You will now hire me as security consultant. We can blackmail you whenever, so there is nothing you can do. That was pure rage and vengeance given form.

I really don't understand the deep admiration you people have for Erika. She is kind of creepy in my book. I mean move on. Koto has not even once looked in your direction. At least Koto tried, unsuccessfully, to move on and meet new people.

She only wished Aya back so that she can finally get, what she considers her birthright apparently, Koto. She has been completely indifferent to Aya. She was not happy she was back. She was only happy that Koto will finally get her closure so that she can get her obsession. Who is not even remotely interested in her. Get a life Erika.

I mean your childhood friend returns after 7 years. She is scared and lost. But your only thought is that now you can finally get Koto. That makes Erika self-centered to the extreme. Her love is more akin to an obsession. It has been 7 years Erika. Move on. At least Koto and Aya had something going on once.

But really no one really cares about Aya. Even Koto is acting all weird for someone who supposedly believes that Aya was her great love. Her soulmate. Or something like that.

Honestly... Erika reads to me like someone who's erroneously assessing her own motives out of at least a degree of self-deprecation. She very much could have gone out with Koto if she wanted to, but realized that it wouldn't be healthy for her or Koto. She does want Koto and Aya to break up, but as things are now, that's a significantly more justified perspective, but since she also is still attracted to Koto, she misconstrues that motive to primarily be out of a desire to get together with her. Y'know what I mean?

No. I am not quite sure. Can you explain it a bit more. What do you think her motives are then? I think I am alone in this perspective. But I actually think that Erika really had a chance to try something with Koto when she asked her that one time in the past. If Erika had said yes, she could also have moved on.

Honestly, I think that was one of the big clues about how messed up the relationship between Minsung and Miyeon is. The entire thing is really weird from my perspective. Minsung left a young child who could be possibly dying alone. She did not even remotely care about her or do something to help her. This was a person she grew up with. This was the person who called her sister. That is not normal behavior. As far as I could tell, she was envious of the attention Miyeon was giving her. I guess her logic was that if Hyunwoo was dead she would get all of the attention.

But the really strange part was the reaction of Miyeon. She was almost indifferent to the entire thing. She was ready to forgive right away, when she should have gotten Minsung some sort of help. Youngae was reacting with anger and acting like a mother. Sure, she was already aware that Minsung was lusting after Miyeon, and that influenced her anger and will to drive her out of their home. But the entire incident should have provoked a bigger reaction from Miyeon. What kind of mother ignores that one of her kids left the other for dead?

And that leads me to my point. Minsung is obsessed with Miyeon. She wants to be the only person who gets any sort of love from her. And this is probably due to her upbringing, where she was abused, and how Minsung saved her from all of that. And she might be autistic? I kind of get that vibe in any case. But her feelings are all warped and confused. The only person who matters for her is Miyeon. And Miyeon is not acting like an adult, she is instead enabling her. But why is Miyeon just as obsessed with Minsung. She is willing to do anything to have her in her life. She is willing to sacrifice any other relationship. And I am still left with one big question mark to as why that is the case? Is it fear of being left alone? She was after all left by Youngae once, and I think that really fucked her up. Because I do not get the impression that she was romantically or psychically in love with Minsung. In chapter 93 she was more like "if this is what it takes then why not." This did not indicate any sort of big longing or dormant desire.

I was, like you, pretty indifferent to Youngae. I did not understand why she left Miyeon and got married. It is still a mystery to me. I think I might have missed something. Do you know why? As they lived together and had a child for like 10 years? So why did she all of the sudden leave? But I really feel for her in this situation. I unfortunately read some spoilers that she will be mentally ill later on due to the stress, and probably a broken heart.

There was without doubt mutual flirting between Youngae and Juha at the birthday party.

I find it hard to grasp the age of the characters in the different chapters. Do you know how old these people are supposed to be?

I have also read until chapter 97. I really dread and look forward to the next chapter. I really want to see the reaction of Juha when she learns about what has happened. It must be such a kick in the stomach. I got so sad when I read that she got a cold in the last chapter, as she was up all night waiting for Minsung. The night Minsung was having sex with her own mother. Poor girl.

I think I have in part answered your question. I think for Minsung it is some sort of unhealthy love. She really loves Miyeon. So for her this must be some sort of culmination of all of her desires. What Juha meant for her, if anything, well that is what I want to know. For Miyeon as well, it must be some sort of love. But what kind? I mean she is sleeping with her own child. That would normally be taboo for most people. So, I would really like to see some sort of internal monologue. I cannot believe her when she says her relationship with Minsung is just as the relationship she had with Youngae. But in both cases I think it is a very unhealthy love and this is the actions of two people who are desperate for something, but they are looking in all the wrong places. And I hope they realize that as the story progresses.

I find your point of view about it being dormant passion to be interesting though. Why do you think that is the case?

A bit unrelated though. But what is Miyeon supposed to say to Hyunwoo? Minsung used to be your sister. But she is now your new mother? That is really weird.

last edited at Feb 16, 2024 3:21PM

You are, of course, correct. But I think that if you are adopted at a young age (7) and during most of your life you call someone mother, then it is incest. What else can we call it?

I was left speechless during the last chapters. They were really trying to inflict the maximum amount of emotional and psychological damage on Youngae. How can she possibly go on and live her life when she was just told by Miyeon, whom she considers her soulmate, and whom she has a child with, that she will now be in a relationship with her adopted kid. That you raised together. And she even compared their relationships. I have never felt this amount of tension before while reading a story. I do not quite understand why they hate Youngae so much.

Juha is just the best. But I really wonder how she will take the news. She was used, and now she will be thrown away by her girlfriend of many years. Because Minsung is going to be in a relationship with her mother. The entire thing is so freaking twisted.

Do you have any thoughts about what is going on in the heads of Minsung and Miyeon?

last edited at Feb 16, 2024 8:38AM

So I was right! It says that next chapter is to be announced. So, there might be a break.

I really hate Eri. I know she cannot be a mind reader. But everything about her and the situation is pissing me off. I really want the story to put some distance between Fuyuki and Eri. I hope we see a reverse. That Eri walks inn on them having sex.

Anyone here who is reading How to Draw an Ellipse? It should be popular. It comes off at first glance as your standard 4 out of 6 stars type of story about a couple who is going to take on this big company. Then everything goes to bloody hell and we have all of the hard-hitting tags. Incest. Cheating. Netorare. Age gap. Blackmail. The last couple of chapters have been interesting. I was completely flabbergast and taken unaware, though the hints were there.

I really don't understand the deep admiration you people have for Erika. She is kind of creepy in my book. I mean move on. Koto has not even once looked in your direction. At least Koto tried, unsuccessfully, to move on and meet new people.

She only wished Aya back so that she can finally get, what she considers her birthright apparently, Koto. She has been completely indifferent to Aya. She was not happy she was back. She was only happy that Koto will finally get her closure so that she can get her obsession. Who is not even remotely interested in her. Get a life Erika.

I mean your childhood friend returns after 7 years. She is scared and lost. But your only thought is that now you can finally get Koto. That makes Erika self-centered to the extreme. Her love is more akin to an obsession. It has been 7 years Erika. Move on. At least Koto and Aya had something going on once.

But really no one really cares about Aya. Even Koto is acting all weird for someone who supposedly believes that Aya was her great love. Her soulmate. Or something like that.

last edited at Feb 14, 2024 2:47AM

Yeah. Erika seems like a extremely unsympathetic person after the last chapter.

last edited at Feb 10, 2024 6:46PM

Looks like witnessing that scene is too much for Fuyuki. Eri about to lose everything lol.

But Eri is showing some romantic interest in Fuyuki....? Hard to tell, but kind of seems so

Well, what comes around goes around. Senpai was a unpleasant and selfish person.

Chihiro. Well, the story would have been great if she moved on. Instead she ended up being a slave to her feelings to such a unworthy person. Sad.