Yeah that's what I mean. Out of the two of them, Komaki is definitely crushing on Wakaba, so that scene never registered as anything but misleading. That's why I was confused by the worry.

It's less worry and more that it would be frustrating. "Girl crushes on other girl but goes out with some random guy for whatever reason" is a very unfun trope (I'll not go into the details of why, as people will interpret it differently, but I feel uncomfortable every time that trope is used). And it does affect their interactions if Komaki went out with someone in the past, considering the way she behaves towards Wakaba now hits very different if she has relationship experience.

If Wakaba's interaction was correct and Komaki dated that dude, it would be nice to know that now to interpret Komaki's actions as a change of direction, rather than learn it later and repaint all the previous chapters in a negative light. And if it was misleading, that would be nice to know to see their game as an awkward first love instead of being left in the dark.

I could be misunderstanding, but that doesn't feel like a fair standard. It almost feels like you're saying either "you shouldn't date anyone before getting together with your true love" or "any amount of experience, especially if it's with a boy, means she should ..." I don't actually know how to finish that one? Know how to properly approach Wakaba? Treat her in a specific way? How exactly would Komaki going out with a guy (or even multiple guys) before finally trying to get together with Wakaba cast their current relationship in a negative light (assuming she's not currently with some guy, which would be a completely different issue)?

Maybe she did go out with that first guy, either out of curiosity or because she was somewhat attracted to him, but then she realized that either A) She didn't like him all that much and/or B) She much prefers Wakaba. That wouldn't mean she actually has much experience with romantic relationships, let alone how to start a romantic relationship with another girl, who she already has a non-relationship with, especially with their existing dynamic.

In fact, I'd go a step further. Most people seem to view Komaki as perfect, so it wouldn't surprise me if she's gotten lots of confessions (potentially from both genders), and she may or may not have accepted some of them. However, from what we've seen, she doesn't actually like being viewed in this way—she seems to find it very alienating and, possibly, unrealistic—so any relationship based on that premise probably wouldn't feel good to her and she probably doesn't want to repeat those patterns here. Going back to what you said before, it may be that Komaki has experience in [i]bad[/i] romances specifically.

Wakaba, by contrast, is one of the few people, if not the only one, who recognizes Komaki as a human and who wants her to be treated as such. That would be very appealing in a partner, but it also means Komaki probably doesn't know how to approach this kind of change in their relationship, especially if she still wants Wakaba to pull her down from the pedestal she's been forced on. After all, she can't just wait for Wakaba to confess to her (or accept a confession from her) out of deference to her perfection, not that Komaki would want her to.

The whole soda metaphor was so strange and pointless lol

That scene actually reminded me of my own experience with the band Dear Hoof. Originally, I started listening to them because they were kind-of weird and off-putting, but as I listened to them I developed a better understanding of the nuance and thought that goes into their songs and the way the different pieces come together, in unique ways, to form a compete picture. Now they're one of my favorite bands and I don't feel the original sense of off-putting discordance that originally attracted me to them.

With that said, I don't think that's quite what Komaki was going for here, since she admits that the mix tastes bad to her. Instead, I think she's more focused on the first part of my experience—that of visibly enjoying something that would be weird and uncomfortable for most people—except instead of doing it to make herself seem more sophisticated, she's doing it to seem less perfect. Rather than thinking she's perfect regardless of what she does, as Wakaba assumes, she actually wants people to be put-off and to see it as a flaw, so they realize she isn't perfect.

That's also where the metaphor about mixing "perfect" drinks, and Wakaba's addition about them being better in a pure form comes in. The former is saying that even if all of the individual components are "perfect" at their jobs, it doesn't mean the combined whole is without flaws, in much the same way as a person is not a an atomic existence and even if they have multiple capacities that might be described as "perfect" describing the overall mix as perfect is just kind of silly. That's not how composites or people work.

Wakaba's part, seems to be more about how society views people/things and hinting at Komaki's true motivation, rather than the one Wakaba assumes she has. Specifically, she's saying that society expects things to exist in simple, uncomplicated, and well known forms. It wants pure coke, tea, and what have you, both because that makes the world easier to understand and because it lets you avoid potentially uncomfortable experiences, like bad drink mixes. If we follow the metaphor back to Komaki, it's saying society wants her to be a "pure" idol, the "Perfect Savant" who can be neatly slotted into her space in their world view, without needlessly complicating things by making them question their own efforts or accomplishments. After all, she's "Perfect" so of course they don't compare, who could? Ignore the "normal girl" who consistently comes in close second to her, based on pure effort and determination. She is "not perfect" so her role is to fail to reach perfection, and how close she comes can also be ignored, even though coming in a close second on all of their challenges should still put her miles ahead of literally everyone else.

Actually, I don't think that last part has been touched on much in these comments. Sure, Wakaba keeps losing, but that's not for lack of trying. She comes incredibly close on all of her challenges and, if we take Komaki's performance as the benchmark for a perfect success, then consistently coming within inches of perfection [i]in all of her endeavors[/i] still makes Wakaba an amazing person. In fact, I'd wager that someone with her record would normally be viewed as some sort of perfect and untouchable school idol, but here Komaki's presence shields her from that moniker and the isolation it brings. Maybe things would be different if one of them was a man—or if Japan was more accepting of homosexual relationships—and they could be seen as some sort of "Perfect Power Couple", but as things stand Komaki being put on a pedestal means Wakaba gets to enjoy a normal life. In many ways, Wakaba is probably leading the life Komaki wants for her self. She's a highly competent and well respected person, but she's also allowed to be a flawed human being who doesn't need to succeed at everything, on her first try and with no apparent effort.

Orrr maybe I'm just reading too much into things and overanalyzing a simple comedy manga. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Orrr maybe I'm just reading too much into things and overanalyzing a simple comedy manga. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Overanalyzing or not, that was an interesting read and perspective.

last edited at Mar 21, 2024 5:37PM

jdlsharkman posted:

Y'all ever get such a self-recriminating God complex that you drink shitty soda just to prove some inscrutable point? Hashtag relatable

For me it was always a combination of the cheapest hooches and those jumex mango nectar boxes, a period of time in my life that I now refer to as my "kikuri era"

The soda analysis is slightly longer in the novel. Wakaba wants to compromise and suggests a blend that would taste good but it's rejected because Komaki specifically wants to ruin her food. She also wonders if it means Komaki wants to be what she eats.

Wakaba is probably leading the life Komaki wants for her self.

Huh, interesting twist.

I would enjoy this more if it were overtly a comedy and took itself less seriously. It would basically be a different manga, but I would love it if they made the competition over small things extra ridiculous, and made them clearly into each other while still mutually failing to realize that their competition is increasingly just an excuse to be gay. You could make Komaki deadpan and Wakaba tsukkomi.

People like different things. I'm fine with it so far. Dubcon domsub smut.

The soda analysis is slightly longer in the novel. Wakaba wants to compromise and suggests a blend that would taste good but it's rejected because Komaki specifically wants to ruin her food. She also wonders if it means Komaki wants to be what she eats.

Interesting. Now it totally makes sense, probably.

I will agree with the person who commented that this story seems to be taking itself a bit too seriously for something with such a ridiculous premise.

I would enjoy this more if it were overtly a comedy and took itself less seriously. It would basically be a different manga, but I would love it if they made the competition over small things extra ridiculous, and made them clearly into each other while still mutually failing to realize that their competition is increasingly just an excuse to be gay. You could make Komaki deadpan and Wakaba tsukkomi.

Is that not what's going on anyways, more or less? When Komaki kissed Wakaba in this chapter, it wasn't even part of the "punishment" (that will be Wakaba's first date), she just felt like it. She is clearly into Wakaba, she just expresses it in strange ways. And Komaki mixing her own soda out of pure spite is plain absurd on its face. The fact that Wakaba tries to make sense of it, instead of laughing at her, just goes to show that Wakaba is also a weirdo who puts Komaki on a pedestal.

I think a comic can be funny without constant lampshading of how wacky and goofy everything is. What limits the humor here is things like the somewhat stiff facial expressions, not that there is nobody pointing out what we're supposed to laugh at.

last edited at Mar 22, 2024 11:56AM

I would enjoy this more if it were overtly a comedy and took itself less seriously. It would basically be a different manga, but I would love it if they made the competition over small things extra ridiculous, and made them clearly into each other while still mutually failing to realize that their competition is increasingly just an excuse to be gay. You could make Komaki deadpan and Wakaba tsukkomi.

Is that not what's going on anyways, more or less? When Komaki kissed Wakaba in this chapter, it wasn't even part of the "punishment" (that will be Wakaba's first date), she just felt like it. She is clearly into Wakaba, she just expresses it in strange ways. And Komaki mixing her own soda out of pure spite is plain absurd on its face. The fact that Wakaba tries to make sense of it, instead of laughing at her, just goes to show that Wakaba is also a weirdo who puts Komaki on a pedestal.

I think a comic can be funny without constant lampshading of how wacky and goofy everything is. What limits the humor here is things like the somewhat stiff facial expressions, not that there is nobody pointing out what we're supposed to laugh at.

Yeah I don't expect most of the audience is taking this too seriously. It's pretty outlandish already and that's funny. Plus we're in on the joke--they both clearly like each other, Wakaba clearly is in a bit of denial and doesn't have to be doing these things but wants to for her own reasons (that we can probably imagine).

last edited at Mar 22, 2024 12:33PM

Yeah I don't expect most of the audience is taking this too seriously. It's pretty outlandish already and that's funny. Plus we're in on the joke--they both clearly like each other, Wakaba clearly is in a bit of denial and doesn't have to be doing these things but wants to for her own reasons (that we can probably imagine).

Yes, the games and "business deals" of this type (also seen in the likes of Arioto, and Buying My Classmate Once A Week) are supposed to give the main character permission to do something she already wants to do. "Wow, I can't believe I lost the punishment game again. Nothing bad would happen to me if I refused to play along with her rules, but I'm going to do it anyway because I'm too stubborn/proud/honorable to back down."

The intended purpose is not to obfuscate desire or lesbianism, as the relationship basically always ends up growing past the confines of the game or "business deal". It might be helpful to think of it as an even more unserious case of the "stuck together" trope in the romance genre, filling the same role as e.g. arranged marriages and "fake dating" situations.

last edited at Mar 22, 2024 4:15PM

Yeah I don't expect most of the audience is taking this too seriously. It's pretty outlandish already and that's funny. Plus we're in on the joke--they both clearly like each other, Wakaba clearly is in a bit of denial and doesn't have to be doing these things but wants to for her own reasons (that we can probably imagine).

Yes, the games and "business deals" of this type (also seen in the likes of Arioto, and Buying My Classmate Once A Week) are supposed to give the main character permission to do something she already wants to do. "Wow, I can't believe I lost the punishment game again. Nothing bad would happen to me if I refused to play along with her rules, but I'm going to do it anyway because I'm too stubborn/proud/honorable to back down."

The intended purpose is not to obfuscate desire or lesbianism, as the relationship basically always ends up growing past the confines of the game or "business deal". It might be helpful to think of it as an even more unserious case of the "stuck together" trope in the romance genre, filling the same role as e.g. arranged marriages and "fake dating" situations.

Now I want a show that uses that setup, but a few episodes in it gets revealed that they're both just have a dom/sub kink, with a gameshow twist, and they're completely open with each other about what they're planning.

Yes, the games and "business deals" of this type (also seen in the likes of Arioto, and Buying My Classmate Once A Week) are supposed to give the main character permission to do something she already wants to do. "Wow, I can't believe I lost the punishment game again. Nothing bad would happen to me if I refused to play along with her rules, but I'm going to do it anyway because I'm too stubborn/proud/honorable to back down."

And for that reason nearly all those series make it very clear both MCs are into it even though one MC needs to take the "Oh heavens! I'm in denial" role that you mentioned. That's where all the fun lives. Arioto for example was very blunt from nearly the start that our MC was into what was happening despite her banter. It doesn't play well if the audience doesn't recognize it's the game--that both MCs are willing players--so they typically clarify it early on with hints and blushes and other things. This one is the same.

last edited at Mar 22, 2024 4:54PM

Plot twist: she's already had her first date, which makes miss imperfect miffed and she orders something less pleasant

(Not gonna happen)

Yeah that's what I mean. Out of the two of them, Komaki is definitely crushing on Wakaba, so that scene never registered as anything but misleading. That's why I was confused by the worry.

It's less worry and more that it would be frustrating. "Girl crushes on other girl but goes out with some random guy for whatever reason" is a very unfun trope (I'll not go into the details of why, as people will interpret it differently, but I feel uncomfortable every time that trope is used). And it does affect their interactions if Komaki went out with someone in the past, considering the way she behaves towards Wakaba now hits very different if she has relationship experience.

If Wakaba's interaction was correct and Komaki dated that dude, it would be nice to know that now to interpret Komaki's actions as a change of direction, rather than learn it later and repaint all the previous chapters in a negative light. And if it was misleading, that would be nice to know to see their game as an awkward first love instead of being left in the dark.

I could be misunderstanding, but that doesn't feel like a fair standard. It almost feels like you're saying either "you shouldn't date anyone before getting together with your true love" or "any amount of experience, especially if it's with a boy, means she should ..." I don't actually know how to finish that one? Know how to properly approach Wakaba? Treat her in a specific way? How exactly would Komaki going out with a guy (or even multiple guys) before finally trying to get together with Wakaba cast their current relationship in a negative light (assuming she's not currently with some guy, which would be a completely different issue)?

Maybe she did go out with that first guy, either out of curiosity or because she was somewhat attracted to him, but then she realized that either A) She didn't like him all that much and/or B) She much prefers Wakaba. That wouldn't mean she actually has much experience with romantic relationships, let alone how to start a romantic relationship with another girl, who she already has a non-relationship with, especially with their existing dynamic.

In fact, I'd go a step further. Most people seem to view Komaki as perfect, so it wouldn't surprise me if she's gotten lots of confessions (potentially from both genders), and she may or may not have accepted some of them. However, from what we've seen, she doesn't actually like being viewed in this way—she seems to find it very alienating and, possibly, unrealistic—so any relationship based on that premise probably wouldn't feel good to her and she probably doesn't want to repeat those patterns here. Going back to what you said before, it may be that Komaki has experience in [i]bad[/i] romances specifically.

Wakaba, by contrast, is one of the few people, if not the only one, who recognizes Komaki as a human and who wants her to be treated as such. That would be very appealing in a partner, but it also means Komaki probably doesn't know how to approach this kind of change in their relationship, especially if she still wants Wakaba to pull her down from the pedestal she's been forced on. After all, she can't just wait for Wakaba to confess to her (or accept a confession from her) out of deference to her perfection, not that Komaki would want her to.

The whole soda metaphor was so strange and pointless lol

That scene actually reminded me of my own experience with the band Dear Hoof. Originally, I started listening to them because they were kind-of weird and off-putting, but as I listened to them I developed a better understanding of the nuance and thought that goes into their songs and the way the different pieces come together, in unique ways, to form a compete picture. Now they're one of my favorite bands and I don't feel the original sense of off-putting discordance that originally attracted me to them.

With that said, I don't think that's quite what Komaki was going for here, since she admits that the mix tastes bad to her. Instead, I think she's more focused on the first part of my experience—that of visibly enjoying something that would be weird and uncomfortable for most people—except instead of doing it to make herself seem more sophisticated, she's doing it to seem less perfect. Rather than thinking she's perfect regardless of what she does, as Wakaba assumes, she actually wants people to be put-off and to see it as a flaw, so they realize she isn't perfect.

That's also where the metaphor about mixing "perfect" drinks, and Wakaba's addition about them being better in a pure form comes in. The former is saying that even if all of the individual components are "perfect" at their jobs, it doesn't mean the combined whole is without flaws, in much the same way as a person is not a an atomic existence and even if they have multiple capacities that might be described as "perfect" describing the overall mix as perfect is just kind of silly. That's not how composites or people work.

Wakaba's part, seems to be more about how society views people/things and hinting at Komaki's true motivation, rather than the one Wakaba assumes she has. Specifically, she's saying that society expects things to exist in simple, uncomplicated, and well known forms. It wants pure coke, tea, and what have you, both because that makes the world easier to understand and because it lets you avoid potentially uncomfortable experiences, like bad drink mixes. If we follow the metaphor back to Komaki, it's saying society wants her to be a "pure" idol, the "Perfect Savant" who can be neatly slotted into her space in their world view, without needlessly complicating things by making them question their own efforts or accomplishments. After all, she's "Perfect" so of course they don't compare, who could? Ignore the "normal girl" who consistently comes in close second to her, based on pure effort and determination. She is "not perfect" so her role is to fail to reach perfection, and how close she comes can also be ignored, even though coming in a close second on all of their challenges should still put her miles ahead of literally everyone else.

Actually, I don't think that last part has been touched on much in these comments. Sure, Wakaba keeps losing, but that's not for lack of trying. She comes incredibly close on all of her challenges and, if we take Komaki's performance as the benchmark for a perfect success, then consistently coming within inches of perfection [i]in all of her endeavors[/i] still makes Wakaba an amazing person. In fact, I'd wager that someone with her record would normally be viewed as some sort of perfect and untouchable school idol, but here Komaki's presence shields her from that moniker and the isolation it brings. Maybe things would be different if one of them was a man—or if Japan was more accepting of homosexual relationships—and they could be seen as some sort of "Perfect Power Couple", but as things stand Komaki being put on a pedestal means Wakaba gets to enjoy a normal life. In many ways, Wakaba is probably leading the life Komaki wants for her self. She's a highly competent and well respected person, but she's also allowed to be a flawed human being who doesn't need to succeed at everything, on her first try and with no apparent effort.

Orrr maybe I'm just reading too much into things and overanalyzing a simple comedy manga. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I should say perfect overanalyzing then! it was a nice read :3

It's true what they say, isn't it? It's lonely at the as a at the as a top

Is it just me or is the upload not complete for this update?

AristocraticRose posted:

Is it just me or is the upload not complete for this update?

It's 3.1

Official site releases half chapters.

Wakaba not realizing that Komaki is just into her and really jealous/immature sure is a dynamic lol. I'm not sure who's the less mature one between the two of them at this point

Wow Komaki, you really just went for it, right there in the middle of the arcade

AristocraticRose posted:

Is it just me or is the upload not complete for this update?

It's 3.1

Official site releases half chapters.

I notice that sometimes, a decimal point in a chapter title indicates that the chapter is an omake that takes place between the chapters, and sometimes, it's a second part. I could tell based on Chapter 2 that "two-part" chapters are going to be a trend for this series.

I liked the explanation of why Wakaba calls Komaki "Umezono." I wonder if the fact that Wakaba refers to Komaki by her first name in her thoughts implies that she's fonder of her than she's willing to openly admit.

Wow Komaki, you really just went for it, right there in the middle of the arcade

What I was thinking lol

In,,,,, in public??? Right there in the arcade?? Not even the corner, just straight up yanking her shirt open in the middle of the counter??

Wakaba don't tell me you bet your virginity on that,,,,,, Wakaba,,,,,,,,,,

Honestly if this happened IRL the cops would've been called already

last edited at Apr 5, 2024 9:38PM

If it’s 天和 then it should be 四暗刻単騎, so it’s 4x
役満 instead of 3x. The score would be 48000 x 4, 192000.