God how I fuckin hate these forced marriage nonsense. I know it won't go anywhere considering the story of this manga, but still, roll my eyes every time this trope is brought up

Arranged marriages were common across the entire world. I don't know how relevant they are for Japan's elite families, but obviously there's enough cultural memory for it to work for the intended audience.

Yeah, the original comment gave me the vibe of, like, tell me you don't care to understand other cultures while not telling me you don't care to understand other cultures.
Being all [eyeroll] at the idea of arranged marriages is basically like, I can't believe that all stories aren't written specifically for me and how I view the world.

There’s also the big distinction between “forced” marriages (where the participants aren’t allowed to opt out) and “arranged” marriages, which people who react like the OP routinely ignore.

last edited at Jul 11, 2023 11:26AM

Nice title: "Scumbag's Child"

Are we supposed to understand that Makino, being a child of such parents, is not only a scumbag but also a scumbag's child?

I do believe that's what the words imply, yes.

In a nutshell, this title is Kosuzume's way of telling the readers: 'In case you hadn't noticed, Makino's papa and mama are scum too!'

In a nutshell, this title is Kosuzume's way of telling the readers: 'In case you hadn't noticed, Makino's papa and mama are scum too!'

I'm surprised so many didn't pick up on it, I've been blaming them since their introduction

There’s also the big distinction between “forced” marriages (where the participants aren’t allowed to opt out) and “arranged” marriages, which people who react like the OP routinely ignore.

Clearly the parents aren't giving her a choice or asking for her opinion in this case, so it's perfectly fine to be mad with it.

Half of the "arranged" marriage are actually putting the girl under so much social and family pressure that it's a (recurring, thanks to the genre and authors not hating their characters) miracle for them to actually tell their parents to fuck off and walk away. In a more realistic setting, they'd have a choice between agreeing or ruining their life, so it's not like there's an actual choice, hence forced marriages that make people rightly mad.

last edited at Jul 11, 2023 1:06PM

Brides indeed

i don´t know why she would actually accept that marriage

There’s also the big distinction between “forced” marriages (where the participants aren’t allowed to opt out) and “arranged” marriages, which people who react like the OP routinely ignore.

Clearly the parents aren't giving her a choice or asking for her opinion in this case, so it's perfectly fine to be mad with it.

Half of the "arranged" marriage are actually putting the girl under so much social and family pressure that it's a (recurring, thanks to the genre and authors not hating their characters) miracle for them to actually tell their parents to fuck off and walk away. In a more realistic setting, they'd have a choice between agreeing or ruining their life, so it's not like there's an actual choice, hence forced marriages that make people rightly mad.

People have the right to be angry about anything they want to be angry about. But there are a lot of cultural mores besides marriage where people feel like they don’t have any “choice” (if they want their family’s approval, if they want to fit in with their culture, etc.).

That doesn’t mean there’s no difference between “forced marriage” and “arranged marriage.”

But far be it from me to prevent Dynasty readers from being angry when stories don’t display their personal values.

last edited at Jul 11, 2023 5:05PM

But there are a lot of cultural mores besides marriage where people feel like they don’t have any “choice” (if they want their family’s approval, if they want to fit in with their culture, etc.).

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. "It's a different culture" doesn't mean it's okay to force someone to marry some guy chosen for them or be ostracized by their family and the rest of the society they live in. You could also say that homophobia, institutionalized rape or inherent sexism are part of some cultures, and that's still not acceptable.

I don't see how any opinion that marriage shouldn't be free can be seen as acceptable. There are cultures where parents can act as matchmakers, which is completely okay, but the systematic pressure to accept such matchmaking "or else", like what Makino's parent are showing here, is not.

Clearly the parents aren't giving her a choice or asking for her opinion in this case, so it's perfectly fine to be mad with it.

Mad at the parents, yes. The original comment I replied to seemed to be mad at the mangaka for using the "trope".

(As for the type, this seems to be a forced quasi-arranged marriage. The parents aren't picking the groom, but they're telling Makino she needs to pick one, and they're lining up interviews.)

I don't see how any opinion that marriage shouldn't be free can be seen as acceptable. There are cultures where parents can act as matchmakers, which is completely okay, but the systematic pressure to accept such matchmaking "or else", like what Makino's parent are showing here, is not.

Duly noted.

last edited at Jul 11, 2023 9:11PM

Kinda want to hate on the MC for being indifferent and not being supportive about her sister coming out to her parents.
But then I remembered all of the times when I haven't taken a stand against my parents when I was financially dependent on them. That really is an unfortunate situation to be in.

I guess to balance out this heaviness we had this blissful afterword in ch53

I'm having a hard time following this one, it feels like random events happening at seamingly random moments without notice or any kind of foreshadowing and then we go right to next drama

last edited at Jul 12, 2023 2:06AM

But there are a lot of cultural mores besides marriage where people feel like they don’t have any “choice” (if they want their family’s approval, if they want to fit in with their culture, etc.).

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. "It's a different culture" doesn't mean it's okay to force someone to marry some guy chosen for them or be ostracized by their family and the rest of the society they live in. You could also say that homophobia, institutionalized rape or inherent sexism are part of some cultures, and that's still not acceptable.

I don't see how any opinion that marriage shouldn't be free can be seen as acceptable. There are cultures where parents can act as matchmakers, which is completely okay, but the systematic pressure to accept such matchmaking "or else", like what Makino's parent are showing here, is not.

This is an argument that I've gotten into in Dynasty comments before. Because people don't seem to be able to understand the difference between "forced" and "obligated".
You don't have to follow family obligations, no. But some people actually do see family obligations as important, and that's where I get so frustrated at people being unable to look past their own cultural hangups.

Clearly, no one absolutely has to follow their family obligations. People have a lot of other options, and in a manga, they usually take them. For instance here, we're under no illusions that our MC is going to quietly follow what her awful parents want.
But in a hypothetical other story[cough, Sheep Princess, cough cough], if the family is trying to arrange something they actually see as the best interests of the child that they love, and that child chooses to forsake the romantic ideal of love or whatever for the sake of their family's needs, that is not the wrong decision for them to make, despite what Dynasty commenters seem to think.

last edited at Jul 12, 2023 11:08AM

Makino really has found her match in scumminess, she got nothing on her fucking parents. She might be self-serving, opportunistic and selfish but at least she doesn't harm anybody or destroy someone elses life with her scumminess~

Wowzers, Makino’s mother is so scummy that she somehow makes Makino look like an angel by comparison. On the bright side, those two assholes are probably going to wind up dying old and alone, having destroyed their relationship with both their children, and with their company, at best, falling into the hands of some random adult they “adopted” for the sole reason of keeping their oh-so-precious company “in the family.”

Also, I initially misread “sparrows” as “swallows” in the author’s note, and was ready to express my condolences to the author. Those little monsters are aggressive when they’re nesting.

of course Makino's parents are abhorrently sexist and homophobic scum, but more importantly, wow does Makino look good in that cover image, maybe Mashiro is luckier than we thought

Wowzers, Makino’s mother is so scummy that she somehow makes Makino look like an angel by comparison. On the bright side, those two assholes are probably going to wind up dying old and alone, having destroyed their relationship with both their children, and with their company, at best, falling into the hands of some random adult they “adopted” for the sole reason of keeping their oh-so-precious company “in the family.”

Also, I initially misread “sparrows” as “swallows” in the author’s note, and was ready to express my condolences to the author. Those little monsters are aggressive when they’re nesting.

the first time it actually does say swallows!

Why are we defending arranged marriages in the comments are you all fucking bricked in the head.

she should resort to violence. Maybe a little murder

Edit: Arranged marriage is good if you don't have to worry about retaliation for saying no, because you get free dinner. Free fancy food... awesome...

last edited at Jul 23, 2023 2:00AM

These toxic parents!!

Makino's face in page 15 makes me feel like murdering those geezers. No girl should ever have to make a face like that.

Mashiro, run to your girlfriend's rescue!

she should resort to violence. Maybe a little murder

Edit: Arranged marriage is good if you don't have to worry about retaliation for saying no, because you get free dinner. Free fancy food... awesome...

Nah, that’s too quick. Instead, she should absolutely tank the interview. Just act utterly deplorable to the point of imputing the shame to her family, maybe even drop a few secrets that they’d rather not have anyone know if she’s got them. Attack their reputation with such vigor that they know that continuing in this course of action will expose them to a social death by a thousand cuts. Physical death is momentary, but humiliation lasts a lifetime.

And if they try to escalate things by forcing her hand, then she can consider violence.

As to the second point, it’d still be kinda weird to meet someone for the first time, along with their parents, with marriage not only being on the table, but the expected outcome. A blind date arranged by my parents I could see myself going to, despite being a little awkward, but the idea of a marriage interview, even one where there’s no pressure to accept, would just be too weird for me.

last edited at Jul 23, 2023 2:59AM

Bruh, why are they setting up their teenage daughter with a grown man like it’s not big deal and somehow make their adult daughter being a lesbian as worse. She’s 16 for Christ sakes, Imagine thinking of forcing your child into a marriage for the sake of entrusting your beloved company into the hands of a stranger. Connected by a piece of paper. It’s basically the same thing as giving the company to a stranger at that point, so I don’t understand why they need to force her into marriage anyways.

She did college entrance exams, i doubt she is only 16.

She’s 16 for Christ sakes

Where did you get that idea? In chapter 1, she's just failed college entrance exams, and her friends will be in college in the spring. And later she's suspected of taking a gap year. So she's at least 18.

Why are we defending arranged marriages in the comments are you all fucking bricked in the head.

Dynasty scans is literally the last place I would expect anyone to defend arranged marriages, yet here we are....

Nah, that’s too quick. Instead, she should absolutely tank the interview. Just act utterly deplorable to the point of imputing the shame to her family, maybe even drop a few secrets that they’d rather not have anyone know if she’s got them. Attack their reputation with such vigor that they know that continuing in this course of action will expose them to a social death by a thousand cuts. Physical death is momentary, but humiliation lasts a lifetime.

And if they try to escalate things by forcing her hand, then she can consider violence.

And what's she gonna do after that? These assholes treat their daughters as if they owned them; the moment she stops being "useful" they're gonna kick her out, she's unemployed and she doesn't have a higher education.