If I dig really deep, the only thing I want for Shiho is for there to be an unsecured trapdoor on the performance stage, which she falls through, to her death.

Kind of hard to take anything you write after this seriously, but ok.

In my previous post, a few pages ago, I talked about the way Shiho isn't balanced with another character in the story.

That's true, but it's made on purpose. The point is that she is a character with such an overwhelming personality, that the only way to even out the equation is by putting all the other characters on the other side of it. From the moment she was introduced until now, the story has revolved around her. In all ways. We have seen many times scenes in which, even if she is not present, the characters think or talk about her. You won't find a single character that can balance with her. Not Aki, not Himari and certainly not Yori.

Why does Shiho's promise to have nothing to do with Mizuguchi anymore feel like she really means it? She does mean it, and that makes her response much stranger than that of the average person.

This is completely false. We have seen in many moments how important Aki is to Shiho and how difficult this current situation is for her. Did you read the Extras of Volume 6? What about her sad expressions in Chapter 37 when Himari asks her if she really wants to cut ties with her? She's just using a mask in front of Aki.

So I guess that's where I'm at with this; stuck, unable to envision an ending to this story arc that would satisfy my modest goals.

You won't find any scenario satisfying because you just hate the character.

But Shiho's motivations are never modulated by other perspectives. Her band members back her up no matter what (despicable),

Himari has so far made very little headway, I'd say, in helping Shiho solve her personal problems––all she's really done is get Shiho to admit she has them. Then Himari helped Shiho set up Mizuguchi for this "I used to love you" surprise maneuver––really uncool of Himari, I think, not to warn Mizuguchi what Shiho was up to. I don't know. Maybe it didn't even occur to Himari what Shiho was planning.

1) Recognizing the problems is the first step in dealing with them. Himari has been very helpful in getting Shiho to take action on her unresolved conflict with Aki.

2) Shiho didn't even plan to tell Aki her true feelings in this chapter. The meeting was brought about by Aki to begin with.

What do we want Himari to get out of all this? What does she learn about meddling in people's old love non-stories? Does she get to play cupid for these two? Does that mean anything for her character?

She wants to save Shiho from self-destruction before it's too late. And Aki is the person who can do it, as we could see in Shiho's flashback, where there was a girl freed from anxieties, pressures and guilt. That's all that matters in this story at this point.

Takeshima is only the artist for the Watanare LN, not for the manga. The author is Teren Mikami (the same person who wrote the "A Yuri Story About a Girl Who Insists "It's Impossible for Two Girls to Get Together" Completely Falling Within 100 Days" LN and the "If You Could See Love" manga, BTW).

Truly a trifecta of trash.

You won't find any scenario satisfying because you just hate the character.

There it is—the classic response of the person who sees stories as entirely a function of imaginary human beings rather than as narrative works of art. If the characters are interesting, or “relatable,” or can be projected as being “realistic,” or if they fulfill whatever other set of values the reader happens to prioritize, that’s the be-all and end-all of manga writing.

feihong is clearly someone who sees stories as invented structures, not as invisible windows through which we see human beings. To simply say, “It’s fine that the story’s structure is unbalanced and the parts are disproportionate because the character is just that powerful” is utterly non-responsive and irrelevant to the argument being made.

And the capper is always, “you just hate the character,” as if readers are not just reading about high-school girls, but are actually JKs themselves, forming cliques around “who likes who” and talking about Shiho behind her back.

Here’s an analogy:

It’s as if someone constructed a dollhouse and all its furniture from scratch and populated it with a set of handmade dolls. Then when everything was all set up, they got an idea for another doll. But they made this one to a different scale, one several times larger than all the others.

This new doll is too big to fit in the rooms unless the other dolls are taken out, and even then the new one has to be bent in half. It won’t fit on any of the furniture, so it can only sit on the floor.

Some people look at that dollhouse and say, “Oh, that doll is the best one—it’s much more detailed and you can see the features better. It reminds me of my first, lost, love—this dollhouse is a powerful emotional experience!”

Other people say, “But that doll doesn’t work in that dollhouse—it’s too big, and it crowds out the other dolls. It would be fine in a dollhouse built to the same scale, but right now it just doesn’t fit.” And the first group replies, “You just hate that doll.”

But the doll still doesn’t fit.

last edited at Feb 24, 2023 7:12AM

Wait, how is any of this going to end then?

The battle of the bands was to get Shiho to confess why she left the band and now she did. It feels weird because it's likely Aki's band will win but where's the payoff there? As much as I like Lorelei, they (specifically Shiho) took up too much of the spotlight and now, the climax doesn't seem to hold any water since Shiho already confessed.

I'm just confused as a writer, even if I like Shiho committing and actually telling her feelings this chapter

There it is—the classic response of the person who sees stories as entirely a function of imaginary human beings rather than as narrative works of art. If the characters are interesting, or “relatable,” or can be projected as being “realistic,” or if they fulfill whatever other set of values the reader happens to prioritize, that’s the be-all and end-all of manga writing.

Leaving aside that he said "the only thing I want for Shiho is for there to be an unsecured trapdoor on the performance stage, which she falls through, to her death.", we are in a moment where literally all possibilities can still happen. If you can't find a single (realistic) scenario that satisfies you, then you have reach a point where you shouldn't be reading the manga anymore, unfortunately. Are you guys masochists?

“It’s fine that the story’s structure is unbalanced and the parts are disproportionate because the character is just that powerful” is utterly non-responsive and irrelevant to the argument being made.

I never said whether it's fine or not, I merely stated that was done that way on purpose. I'm convinced that the author knows what she wants to do with her characters, unlike what some people here think.

There it is—the classic response of the person who sees stories as entirely a function of imaginary human beings rather than as narrative works of art. If the characters are interesting, or “relatable,” or can be projected as being “realistic,” or if they fulfill whatever other set of values the reader happens to prioritize, that’s the be-all and end-all of manga writing.

Leaving aside that he said "the only thing I want for Shiho is for there to be an unsecured trapdoor on the performance stage, which she falls through, to her death.", we are in a moment where literally all possibilities can still happen. If you can't find a single (realistic) scenario that satisfies you, then you have reach a point where you shouldn't be reading the manga anymore, unfortunately. Are you guys masochists?

This is just silly nonsense. The story has laid out several potential lines of resolution, all of which have obvious flaws, and more than one person has pointed out those flaws at length. Sure, “all possibilities can still happen,” the most plausible ones having already been rendered anticlimactic or irrelevant. (And falling back on the lame old “if you don’t like it why don’t you stop reading it?” gambit is third-grade argumentation.)

“It’s fine that the story’s structure is unbalanced and the parts are disproportionate because the character is just that powerful” is utterly non-responsive and irrelevant to the argument being made.

I never said whether it's fine or not, I merely stated that was done that way on purpose. I'm convinced that the author knows what she wants to do with her characters, unlike what some people here think.

When did anyone ever argue that the author has written what they’ve written accidentally or unconsciously? The argument has always been that inserting a character with, in your words, “such an overwhelming personality” (overweening would be more like it) that all the other characters combined get overshadowed was a bad idea, one that throws off the structure of the entire series.

Binged this all in two days and ultimately my problem with Shiho is that she’s simply not sympathetic enough for me to wanna root for her since every single bit of the negative vibes in the story currently is all her fault, because she’s extremely emotional, crass and prone to wild mood swings the instant she hears something she doesn’t like.

I don’t really wanna see her and Aki get together romantically because she put her through heavy emotional abuse because she had the gal to like someone that wasn’t her, saying crap like she “broke her heart” like any of this was Aki’s fault is outta line. It’s one thing if Aki rejected her (and even then she’s free to do so and shouldn’t feel bad about it) but the fact Shiho didn’t even have the sack to confess and left Aki completely in the dark about the entire thing is just shitty.

At the very least It’s a brilliant study in contrasts because when Aki saw her love get with someone else she didn’t throw a tantrum or pointlessly burn bridges between close friends, she handled it well and still maintains healthy relationships with both parties, she moved on. Shiho cannot move on and would rather verbally tounge lash Aki on site for not looking her way when she didn’t even shoot her shot to begin with, it’s very incel-lite and I’m not really a fan of it.

Granted these are still minors and teenagers do dumb things when emotions run high, I get it and I do cut some slack for Shiho over it, and she has shown to have redeeming values and moments: But she has a LOT of growing up to do before I ever want to see her in a actual relationship

last edited at Feb 26, 2023 6:04PM

Granted these are still minors and teenagers do dumb things when emotions run high, I get it and I do cut some slack for Shiho over it, and she has shown to have redeeming values and moments: But she has a LOT of growing up to do before I ever want to see her in a actual relationship

i don´t think that´s gonna happen sadly, the story so far has framed shiho s struggles as stuff that´s completly out her control, as if the people around her were the ones at fault. It wouldn´t surprise me if aki actually apologizes to her for "breaking her heart"(even tho she didn´t actually confess) and ends up being the one confessing. And even tho aki´s been through a lot i think the character that definitely got the short end of the stick was kyo, who for a long time believed it was her fault that shiho stopped talking to her and got fridged for the sake of a more sympathetic back story for shiho

last edited at Mar 5, 2023 8:39PM

the story so far has framed shiho s struggles as stuff that´s completly out her control, as if the people around her were the ones at fault.

How is it in any way possible to read this story like that...? It's always been very clear that Shiho's problems are for the most part caused by her own troublesome personality. She was even ready to admit as much at one point, before things spiraled out of control again.

Man this story is polarizing. It's funny when I read it thanx to the comment above that used the Tim Allen sound for the ending

The anime is confirmed to premiere in January 2024. We already have the cast:

Hana Shimano as Himari Kino
Asami Seto as Yori Asanagi.
Mikako Komatsu as Aki Mizuguchi
Konomi Kohara as Mari Tsutsui
Ai Kakuma as Kaori Tachibana
Yuna Nemoto as Shiho Izumi

ch40 up on mangadex, so getting ahead of the inevitable flurry of comments :P

EDIT: the eagle has landed, unspoilering

I didn't hate this somehow, of course ignoring everything that got us to this point in the first place. Out of all the ways for this story to continue, Shiho realizing that hiding her feelings was stupid to begin with is probably the least bad one. Aki is clearly blaming herself unnecessarily but I think that's pretty realistic, people blame themselves for things they couldn't possibly predict all the time.

last edited at Mar 18, 2023 11:47AM

Oooof my heart...

No matter how troublesome and stupid these teenagers, I still like this series. Reminds me of watching my old high school drama, granted and thankfully no drugs are involved here. I actually can’t wait to hear this drama unfold with voices behind them and we already know we’ll get the Shiho drama considering she has her VA announced too. Now I’m curious at how the anime will end bc they can’t pull of making Shiho appear before the two get together and we all know how Yuri anime always likes to save the characters getting together at the end.

Considering that Himari and Yori get together relatively early in the series my best guess is they'll do that around the halfway point and then another 6-ish episodes of the Shiho arc. no idea where they'd leave it off though, can't imagine them cramming 5+ volumes in half a cour :thinking:

Four volumes is average for a manga adaptation, but I guess it's possible to go into volume five before ending the season. As for the stopping point, well, Bloom Into You had no issues ending in the middle of an arc, remember?

Goodbye Shiho, don't let the door hit you on your way out

It's a shame, but I can tell that a lot of people will focus more on the page where Aki blames herself for the current situation instead of what's really important: This is the chapter that marks Shiho's liberation. Seeing her enjoying performing was a beautiful thing to witness. Even if it definitely was a bittwerseet chapter, I'm really happy for her and her personal growth. This an incredible important moment for her.

As for Aki, I obviously feel very sorry for her. I still think that Shiho and her will end up together, hopefully. But now everything is in Aki's hands, as Shiho probably won't contact her again, even though she still likes her.

I believe Aki will follow Shiho's example and tell Yori the truth about her own feelings.

Considering that Himari and Yori get together relatively early in the series my best guess is they'll do that around the halfway point and then another 6-ish episodes of the Shiho arc. no idea where they'd leave it off though, can't imagine them cramming 5+ volumes in half a cour :thinking:

Chapter 15 would be the optimal point to finish Season 1 (where Himari finally understood that she actually likes Yori), but it's probably too little content to adapt into 12/13 episodes, so maybe it ends with the two bands making the bet of competing against each other at upcoming festival.

Four volumes is average for a manga adaptation, but I guess it's possible to go into volume five before ending the season. As for the stopping point, well, Bloom Into You had no issues ending in the middle of an arc, remember?

This second part is super hard to adapt because it has a lot of almost unresolvable sticky angst (kind where you aren't even sure what the problem is at times), so you will most definitely just get "from start to confession singing scene" + maybe some little bit extra adaptation. That part is quite simple and straightforward, sparkly and just vanilla musical romance everyone can understand. 12 episodes is more than enough for that and will boost sales of LN/manga for sure.

After that?

No, I don't think it is a good idea. You know, if they actually want people to watch it without dropping it because their heads hurt too much.

It's a shame, but I can tell that a lot of people will focus more on the page where Aki blames herself for the current situation

I maybe wonder if that's because...

the story so far has framed shiho s struggles as stuff that´s completly out her control, as if the people around her were the ones at fault.

...Shiho's liberation feels completely undeserved because it appears to be at the expense of Aki? It feels like it's being portrayed as if she conquered her toxic ex.

How is it in any way possible to read this story like that...? It's always been very clear that Shiho's problems are for the most part caused by her own troublesome personality. She was even ready to admit as much at one point, before things spiraled out of control again.

Is the story blaming Aki here at chapter 40? Are the flashback panels implying a revelation that it's her fault or is it saying Aki is blaming herself needlessly? Basically, are we supposed to buy that it's Aki's fault? Because I think that would be a tough sell for everyone here, regardless of where they stand on the whole narrative discussion.

If we use MagiRevo as a proof of concept, they could just rebuild the doll house in this anime. Scope it out properly with foreshadowing and including Shiho from the beginning, devoting two episodes to the main pair and the rest of the anime for Shino. MagiRevo covered a lot of material, including the entirety of the manga and beyond, so they could cover the entirety of the manga with this anime.

last edited at Mar 18, 2023 11:38AM

Is the story blaming Aki here at chapter 40? Are the flashback panels implying a revelation that it's her fault or is it saying Aki is blaming herself needlessly? Basically, are we supposed to buy that it's Aki's fault? Because I think that would be a tough sell for everyone here, regardless of where they stand on the whole narrative discussion.

I think there is too much focus on picking sides (or assigning definitive blame). It's not (and I don't think the author is) focused on blaming anyone in particular but on showing that this situation has scarred each of them differently. Aki blames herself the way people do in situations like this. She feels as though she missed something obvious and now looking back, she recognizes all the hints that Shiho had affection for her. She likely feels regret for not having noticed and done something about. Shiho blames herself for letting things (and herself) get out of control and being so difficult because of it. A lot of this is from Shiho's (unreliable, narrative) perspective, so yes from her POV she feels like she's made a large and hopefully positive statement by confessing and moving on. The other characters have already made it largely clear that they thought her previous actions could be abrasive, the story established that a while ago. This whole thing is not something to use to picks sides really, the author is not demanding that we view Shiho or Aki positively.

last edited at Mar 18, 2023 11:45AM

Shiho’s preposterously overdue epiphany that she’s an annoying idiot aside, with all these close-up panels the art in this series is starting to look like the hair equivalent of tentacle porn.

the story so far has framed shiho s struggles as stuff that´s completly out her control, as if the people around her were the ones at fault.

...Shiho's liberation feels completely undeserved because it appears to be at the expense of Aki? It feels like it's being portrayed as if she conquered her toxic ex.

Shiho's fight is with herself. Everything else are just projections of her own internal insecurities. She's someone who has always been burdened by expectations, pride, jealousy, and even guilt. I fully understand that many people believe the opposite, but in my opinion she is the biggest victim in the story. That's why the double page from the new chapter is so beatiful and important: She's smiling on the stage like we've never seen her before.

Is the story blaming Aki here at chapter 40? Are the flashback panels implying a revelation that it's her fault or is it saying Aki is blaming herself needlessly? Basically, are we supposed to buy that it's Aki's fault? Because I think that would be a tough sell for everyone here, regardless of where they stand on the whole narrative discussion.

It's obviously not Aki's fault in the slightest (by that logic, she could also blame Yori for not realizing her feelings until now). My point is that some people will use her misjudgment (probably caused in part by the shock of the revelation) to criticize Shiho.

last edited at Mar 18, 2023 12:27PM

in my opinion she is the biggest victim in the story.

In a story that didn’t have any victims at all until she came along and started creating them . . .