Abolish monarchy, because it's bad for the royals!

Seriously.

That said, anybody who hasn't picked up on all the foreshadowing that Aki's temporarily embarrassed wolf royalty is reading a different manga than the one I've been reading. And an alliance with the penguin kingdom would be nice and all but the wolf kingdom? Let's be serious.

That said, anybody who hasn't picked up on all the foreshadowing that Aki's temporarily embarrassed wolf royalty is reading a different manga than the one I've been reading.

If they need it spelled out, look to ch.23 p.17 top panel.

Yeah, that's a total normie family living in a total normie house.

That said, anybody who hasn't picked up on all the foreshadowing that Aki's temporarily embarrassed wolf royalty is reading a different manga than the one I've been reading.

If they need it spelled out, look to ch.23 p.17 top panel.

Yeah, that's a total normie family living in a total normie house.

Easy to forget in the time between chapters, but yeah, having just re-read this, it's one of the two moments I pointed out on the previous page that may indeed point in that direction, the other being the queen's reaction to her last name.

Wouldn't call it "all the foreshadowing", but there certainly are clues that support this reading.

You also seem to have serious issues about understanding the setting itself. "...both characters agreeing that their marriage was not out of love but political interests, and that they would both be happier if they separated and were free to pursue their true love." Even though this is a fantasy setting, it operates on pretty clearly established principles of hereditary social classes and monarchical governance. I hate to break it to you, but marriages under these circumstances are made for political interest, it is how politics is conducted when you have such social structures. It is the duty of royal children to secure the future of their country through marriage. "Pursuing their true love" could realistically lead to war.

In other words, your idea is unrealistic within the confines of this setting and clashes horribly with it, forcing decidedly modern concepts on a story set in markedly different times.

[Snip a lot of good points for brevity.]. And you don’t even need to put this off entirely in the distant past. If I had a dollar for every Kdrama romance where the heir to a corporation is expected to marry off for the benefit of a business alliance but is actually in love with a “commoner,” I’d have . . . a lot of dollars.

And if I only counted the ones where the parents, who had gone through the same thing, were happy enough together but wanted their child to follow their heart, I could pay for a high-end meal.

Hell, if I just counted the ones where the premise is “let’s pretend that the traditional monarchy still exists in contemporary Korea/Japan/China” just so they could run through the old tropes, I could get us all some nice snacks.

This is the biggest reaction to this plot I've seen in a manga, even my profile picture had a plot similar to this (without the whole royalty thing) and still not a lot of people cared.

yeah it's honestly a little surprising because this is such a well-trodden type of plot, to the point I had just been expecting it since the story started.

yeah it's honestly a little surprising because this is such a well-trodden type of plot, to the point I had just been expecting it since the story started.

You can't do it before the end of the story though since the resolution is of course to reveal the secret princess background and make them have an official engagement or even wedding or whatever instead. And as we all know that's when the manga absolutely has to end, or The Heavens will fall from the sky and erase all of humanity.

yeah it's honestly a little surprising because this is such a well-trodden type of plot, to the point I had just been expecting it since the story started.

I guess adding the yuri to this particular het trope does create a bit of a wrinkle in regard to the procreation aspect of aristocratic arranged marriages.

• Historically the marriage of the royal heir was of primary political significance.

• The marriage of the younger offspring still mattered, but it was common to take, for example, personal inclination into account as to which princess the non-crown-prince (or vice-versa) would end up with.

• The main political-alliance couple having offspring was of crucial importance (we are talking about dynasties, after all).

In this case, since this storyworld doesn’t seem to have science babies, a female-female marriage would seem to be acceptable for the younger royals (helping to solidify the connections between two countries without endangering the lines of succession). The whole procreation aspect might well be ignored or handwaved away, though.

People's reactions here are quite concerning. When reality comes up against a perfect fantasy life, there are tantrums galore.
I mean, it's good that none of us have to make this kind of tough decisions in our lives, but portraying at as "forced to have babies" is extreme and evidence of your own non-realistic view of the world. Sometimes duty comes against love, and the fact that you refuse to even entertain the idea that it might be necessary shows that you have no understanding of duty, everything in life is just about how you feel, or you'll be melodramatic and attack mercilessly anyone who might have a simpler view of the world.

As I said, we have no such "duty", so it's hard to understand, but not everything in life is so simple that it's like, love or nothing.

That said, anybody who hasn't picked up on all the foreshadowing that Aki's temporarily embarrassed wolf royalty is reading a different manga than the one I've been reading.

It's obvious that it will be fine for Momo. So obvious in fact that I don't think anyone really cares to discuss it. At most, people could complain that it's an annoying trope to build drama from.

But the queen and the dressmaker are going to keep living their happy forced heterosexual / single life, the queen possibly have yet more sex with the husband she didn't want because the kingdom needs more heirs. Which, you know, is fine, because the king is a nice guy anyway! This pair, I believe, is what many people (including me) are angry with.

There is little doubt that most of this drama would have been avoided if the chapter didn't start with the two ex-lovers. The trope itself is annoying; showing the trope in play, with two characters that should be together being friends, having happily accepted it but not moved on, and with no hope for them to actually achieve romantic happiness... that's like taking a trope which already hurts, and repeatedly bashing you in the face with it. Most other works using this trope don't do that (even if they happen to show the ex-lovers, their meeting tends to be a painful reminder, not a demonstration to convince the readers of how happy the characters are after having gone through this), which is why even this fairly common trope got a harsher reaction here.

(...) but portraying at as "forced to have babies" is extreme and evidence of your own non-realistic view of the world.

It might be "realistic", but when a character is forced to have sex with another, whether it's to produce heirs or anything else, not being given a choice to refuse, there is a specific word for it. One that we sometimes avoid spelling because it can be a trigger word for some people.

I think adding to that the additional burden of having to continue living with that person and being forbidden of pursuing your own romantic or sexual preferences only worsens an already awful situation.

This is what makes uses of this trope (as anything other than an evil act), especially when portrayed in a positive light with the characters happily living in acceptance of it, indefensible. It's no more "realistic" than the barbarian acts of invading armies on the people of the countries they invade, for example, but while those are never used as an "awkward but still okay" trope and narrative tool, forced marriage is, for some reason. At least, many works use it exclusively as something to run away from (MagiRevo, which just aired its third anime episode, did just that with at least three different characters running away or suffering from that trope), striking what I would call an acceptable middle ground since, at least, the work uses the trope but doesn't portray it in a positive light, displaying a mix of historical (if such a word can be used for fantasy worlds) practices and critical comment on their immorality.

last edited at Jan 27, 2023 9:04PM

That said, anybody who hasn't picked up on all the foreshadowing that Aki's temporarily embarrassed wolf royalty is reading a different manga than the one I've been reading.

It's obvious that it will be fine for Momo. So obvious in fact that I don't think anyone really cares to discuss it. At most, people could complain that it's an annoying trope to build drama from.

But the queen and the dressmaker are going to keep living their happy forced heterosexual / single life, the queen possibly have yet more sex with the husband she didn't want because the kingdom needs more heirs. Which, you know, is fine, because the king is a nice guy anyway! This pair, I believe, is what many people (including me) are angry with.

There is little doubt that most of this drama would have been avoided if the chapter didn't start with the two ex-lovers. The trope itself is annoying; showing the trope in play, with two characters that should be together being friends, having happily accepted it but not moved on, and with no hope for them to actually achieve romantic happiness... that's like taking a trope which already hurts, and repeatedly bashing you in the face with it. Most other works using this trope don't do that (even if they happen to show the ex-lovers, their meeting tends to be a painful reminder, not a demonstration to convince the readers of how happy the characters are to have gone through this), which is why even this fairly common trope got a harsher reaction here.

Sometimes people end up with who they initially want to be with, and other times life circumstances and choices of all kinds prevent that. The story gives ample reasons why the outcome you think “should” happen didn’t happen.

The fact that you see this as a reason for your righteous own “anger” and your assertion that you’re being personally “bashed in the face” with the author’s chosen tropes is why others have seen this as an overreaction.

EDIT: The specious parallel between arranged marriage and barbarian invasion makes the basic error of conflating arranged marriage—i.e., the most common worldwide cultural practice until well into the 20th century—with forced marriage, a union without the consent of one or both of the parties involved. Acting out of a sense of duty or familial responsibility does not always equal coercion.

last edited at Jan 27, 2023 9:22PM

That said, anybody who hasn't picked up on all the foreshadowing that Aki's temporarily embarrassed wolf royalty is reading a different manga than the one I've been reading.

It's obvious that it will be fine for Momo. So obvious in fact that I don't think anyone really cares to discuss it. At most, people could complain that it's an annoying trope to build drama from.

But the queen and the dressmaker are going to keep living their happy forced heterosexual / single life, the queen possibly have yet more sex with the husband she didn't want because the kingdom needs more heirs. Which, you know, is fine, because the king is a nice guy anyway! This pair, I believe, is what many people (including me) are angry with.

There is little doubt that most of this drama would have been avoided if the chapter didn't start with the two ex-lovers. The trope itself is annoying; showing the trope in play, with two characters that should be together being friends, having happily accepted it but not moved on, and with no hope for them to actually achieve romantic happiness... that's like taking a trope which already hurts, and repeatedly bashing you in the face with it. Most other works using this trope don't do that (even if they happen to show the ex-lovers, their meeting tends to be a painful reminder, not a demonstration to convince the readers of how happy the characters are to have gone through this), which is why even this fairly common trope got a harsher reaction here.

Yes, god forbid the queen is happy in her life. And Juju married and has a daughter, Brubel. You know, Momo's maid? They all seem to be quite happy with their lives. They both agreed to stay as friends and they still cherish their relationship to this day, so much so that the queen has allowed Brubel to be her daughter's personal maid. Yeah, it sucks that they had to go through that. None of them wanted to go through that. The husband didn't want to do it, the queen wasn't happy, and Juju wasn't happy. But they've all made the best of their lives given their circumstances and the duties expected of them. And hopefully, they can take those lived experiences and recognize that that isn't what they want for their daughter.

I think the fact that they have found their own happiness in the life and circumstances they were all given is admirable. Again, it sucks, no one wants to have to go through that. But if they've found a way to be happy (and from everything that we've been shown they are indeed happy and she still gets to spend quality time with Juju) who are we to say that they should break apart that happiness?

Really surprised by the overreactions, but also generally happy with the counter-reactions. I'm gonna try not to repeat points that have already been raised. BreadBunny, Uranus, and Blastaar made some excellent points, as well as others that chimed in. so if I do repeat, I'll try to blaze through these. Also, to be honest, I'm not gonna touch on the subject of realism or history-aligned authenticity. I do not think these matter much more than serving as the setting of the story.

Firstly, it's pretty clear that Momo's mother was not coerced into anything, and that both she and Juju are at the very least content with the arrangements they've made and the lives they live. Saying that this represents a statement of sorts is a wild exaggeration. Do I hope for a happy ending for the two of them? Absofuckinglutely and I don't think that given that well-established vibe of the story and competence of its characters, it will be all that tragic or devastating. Like, hell, I can fully imagine the queen being inspired by Momo's tenacity and going "you know what, I still love her and I want to make it work" or something along those lines.

I am not worried about a bad ending, this author has consistently been dodging the angst and heavy drama.

Not to mention, this story, and its author, have been very consistent in their approach to conflicts and in the lightheartedness of the story. It's been a fluff ride since page 1, and I see no indication of it changing. They've also made it pretty clear that the characters are communicative and can get points across, which made for swift and effective resolutions to conflicts, and I do not see this changing either.

This leads to the biggest point, the folks jumping the gun have done so while the story is still laying the groundwork of the current plotline. The supposedly ominous letter from the queen and how it plays out are huge parts of it, and will wholly dictate what direction this ride takes. I do not expect any harsh turbulence, but I do expect clear communication between characters;

That said, anybody who hasn't picked up on all the foreshadowing that Aki's temporarily embarrassed wolf royalty is reading a different manga than the one I've been reading...

I also expect this as the most likely way the story plays out. I've been of this opinion for the longest time, it was rather clear that Aki has been of some noble status at the very least, and that whatever drove her from her home must have been significant enough for her to completely ditch that status. I hope this finally comes into play.

I also expect the conversation between the wreck Aki is going to be and the queen to be mightily amusing. So yeah, in short, I actually am pretty fond of those developments and excited to see how they play out. I don't expect heavy or long-lasting drama, I'll say that with confidence.

As an aside, while writing this the power went out in the entire block, but Firefox was a true G and the text remained when I booted the PC again. Big fan.

last edited at Jan 28, 2023 8:44AM

I also expect this as the most likely way the story plays out. I've been of this opinion for the longest time, it was rather clear that Aki has been of some noble status at the very least, and that whatever drove her from her home must have been significant enough for her to completely ditch that status. I hope this finally comes into play.

This take might be what is most likely to happen, but doesn't really make sense. The whole counter-reaction argument is "this comp-het for the queen shouldn't go away, because she is happy in the end". After you trim down the why and how around it, it's all that remains : it happens, and the characters should accept it, and we should move on.

So... if we take that at face value, why put so much emphasis on the fact that it will definitely not happen to Momo ? She is also royalty, she is no more in love with Aki than the queen and Juju were. Their situations are pretty much identical. If the author (and defenders) state that being forced to marry a guy from another country is okay, and the characters will find happiness anyway, then shouldn't you also be content if the same happens to Momo ?

And yet, I think that if this story ends with Aki and Momo breaking up, Momo having to marry and bear the children of some Penguin prince or whatever, and a "happy ending" in which she's shown to have a happy family and being good friends with Aki, people will not say that this was okay and that is how it should have ended.

So the defense is pretty much equivalent to saying that this shouldn't happen, but if it happens and the characters are happy in the end, it's not a big deal. I'm surprised that the readers here would be so complacent with this forced marriage trope, or claim that a story showing a character who was forced to give up on her sexual orientation is a good thing. And I don't see why it should be okay for the queen, but not for Momo - except out of main character favoritism.

Besides, Lilisionnach said that this "sucks". But what will happen to Momo and Aki before they are allowed to be together is very likely to suck, too. So if it sucks either way, and she's happy in the end either way, does that mean both the "forced marriage to a stranger" and "struggle until proving that Aki is royalty" are plot directions we should be equally happy with ? I don't think so.

Not to mention, this story, and its author, have been very consistent in their approach to conflicts and in the lightheartedness of the story

For 24 chapters, I would have agreed with you. Then the author inserted a character who was forced to give up on her lover and sexual preferences, marry and bear the children of someone she doesn't love, and wrote the story in a way that implies that this is all acceptable because she's happy in the end (apparently, convincing many readers). And if you disagree and think the author meant to show that this is not okay for the queen, please point where you saw that to me; showing her happiness with the current situation very strongly points in the other direction. I do not think the "comp-het is a bit sad but okay in the long run" is an acceptable statement for the author to make.

This isn't lightheartedness. This (the queen and Juju being forced to break up) isn't a conflict that the author seems intent to fix, either.

It's been a fluff ride since page 1, and I see no indication of it changing

This chapter was fluff to you ?

This leads to the biggest point, the folks jumping the gun have done so while the story is still laying the groundwork of the current plotline

I mean, if the plot line end up with the queen and Juju actually being freed of their forced separation and having a chance to become lover again, I will happily take back my complaints - if you don't see me on the forum at that time saying that I'm happy with the resolution, it means I have stopped following this. And it's not even that unlikely : it would be a pretty straightforward direction for the story to have the king and queen see Momo being allowed to love whoever she wants, and actually want this happiness for themselves. They were both victims of their forced marriage and seem to be pretty much on the same line of thought, "you're a good person, but I don't feel love towards you", while also having the power to choose to divorce and marry out of love if they want to.

But even though it's possible, it's unlikely that the story will go in that direction. The way this chapter reads is that the author is telling us "she is happy now, so it's fine if she was forced to marry a man". Both I and the people I'm arguing against agree on that : this situation is the happy ending that the queen should be content with, and if you think being forced to marry a man who's actually nice isn't something a woman should be content with, then this story isn't for you.

last edited at Jan 28, 2023 11:47AM

So the defense is pretty much equivalent to saying that this shouldn't happen, but if it happens and the characters are happy in the end, it's not a big deal.

This business about how arranged marriages "shouldn't" happen is the key to the disagreement here. What is the relevance of what you or anyone else thinks "should" have happened in the backstory of these characters?

We understand that you deplore the historical phenomenon of arranged marriages and that you object to a contemporary author deploying that trope without portraying such a marriage as a heinous crime against humanity (or in this case, anthropomorphic characters). It is certainly your right to do so.

But the attempt to portray the author, and readers who do not share your outrage at this "unacceptable" trope, as being guilty of some kind of ethical lapse is entirely unconvincing, as is the implication that portraying any kind of behavior in a fantasy story featuring anthropomorphic animals constitutes an endorsement of that behavior in real life.

And yet, I think that if this story ends with Aki and Momo breaking up, Momo having to marry and bear the children of some Penguin prince or whatever, and a "happy ending" in which she's shown to have a happy family and being good friends with Aki, people will not say that this was okay and that is how it should have ended.

Why are we even having this discussion when Momo has already made it clear that she will accept no such engagement...?

But the queen and the dressmaker are going to keep living their happy forced heterosexual / single life, the queen possibly have yet more sex with the husband she didn't wan

Bisexuals exist. Heck, evidence suggests more women are bi than lesbian.

There's no clear evidence that the queen doesn't love her husband now. "Get married and come to love each other" is what a lot of people did (or tried).

(As was "get married, have some required kids, then go play with your loves on the side." More discreetly for women than for men.)

because the kingdom needs more heirs. Which, you know, is fine, because the king is a nice guy anyway! This pair, I believe, is what many people (including me) are angry with.

Maybe such people shouldn't read stories about royalty then, lest history upset them.

There is little doubt that most of this drama would have been avoided if the chapter didn't start with the two ex-lovers. The trope itself is annoying

The trope of history.

showing the trope in play, with two characters that should be together being friends, having happily accepted it but not moved on

How do you know they haven't moved on? The queen calls herself happy.

But the queen and the dressmaker are going to keep living their happy forced heterosexual / single life, the queen possibly have yet more sex with the husband she didn't wan

Bisexuals exist. Heck, evidence suggests more women are bi than lesbian.

There's no clear evidence that the queen doesn't love her husband now. "Get married and come to love each other" is what a lot of people did (or tried).

(As was "get married, have some required kids, then go play with your loves on the side." More discreetly for women than for men.)

because the kingdom needs more heirs. Which, you know, is fine, because the king is a nice guy anyway! This pair, I believe, is what many people (including me) are angry with.

Maybe such people shouldn't read stories about royalty then, lest history upset them.

There is little doubt that most of this drama would have been avoided if the chapter didn't start with the two ex-lovers. The trope itself is annoying

The trope of history.

showing the trope in play, with two characters that should be together being friends, having happily accepted it but not moved on

How do you know they haven't moved on? The queen calls herself happy.

Yikes, you're sure making a lot of excuses for a woman who has only shown same sex attraction being forced to marry a man and pro create with him. She is very clearly still in love with her dress maker, who she makes promise to stay beside her even in her old age. And while she does care for her husband, a nice man who she has shared the better half of her life with, there is no evidence that she romantically loves him or is attracted to him.

Sure, this kind of thing happened all the time in real life monarchies throughout history, but just because it's a reality dosen't make the story any less tragic, quite the opposite in fact. If you take a step back and look at, this is a woman who is attracted to another woman being forced to marry a man and have sex with him, with no option to say no. Whether she is bisexual is entirely irrelevant because she had no choice. You saying that this forced relationship isn't that bad because "evidence shows more woman are bisexual than lesbian" is disgusting.

But the attempt to portray the author, and readers who do not share your outrage at this "unacceptable" trope, as being guilty of some kind of ethical lapse is entirely unconvincing, as is the implication that portraying any kind of behavior in a fantasy story featuring anthropomorphic animals constitutes an endorsement of that behavior in real life.

The theme here is a woman being forced to marry a man and pro create with him with no option to say no. Anyone who is not opposed to that idea does have a lapse in ethical judgment, period. The question isn't whether the story endorses arranged marriage, because there is no message being conveyed aside from a telling of events. The question is whether or not you grieve for the queen who was forced into her relationship, animal girl or not. Seeing fictional characters in tragic situations and being unable to evoke emotions over them is definitely a sign of something wrong.

Bisexuals exist.

Not in this manga it seems. Japan is still mostly stuck in "gender doesn't matter" or "this one is an exception" in yuri manga.

This take might be what is most likely to happen, but doesn't really make sense. The whole counter-reaction argument is "this comp-het for the queen shouldn't go away, because she is happy in the end". After you trim down the why and how around it, it's all that remains : it happens, and the characters should accept it, and we should move on.

So... if we take that at face value, why put so much emphasis on the fact that it will definitely not happen to Momo ? She is also royalty, she is no more in love with Aki than the queen and Juju were. Their situations are pretty much identical. If the author (and defenders) state that being forced to marry a guy from another country is okay, and the characters will find happiness anyway, then shouldn't you also be content if the same happens to Momo ?

I don't beleive the author is stating that it's okay for the queen to have been married off, as the chapter starts with her and Juju promising to still stay together in old age. While the queen says that she is happy and cares for her husband, it is very much in the tone of being able to find happiness in a tragic situation, and the reader is clearly meant to grieve over her lossed love with Juju.

The theme is see the groundwork being layed out for, and the theme I see constantly with this trope, is the idea of the second generation being strong and brave enough to break out of the social confines that held their parents and find a greater happiness, sometimes with the help of their parents. It's the idea of someone telling there child "I made my choice long ago, but I know you're strong enough to make a choice i never thought was possible" And I think the reason this theme comes up so often is because it is very fitting with reality, where older generations look at younger generations as being outspoken and brave, and able to break down social structures that older people thought were concrete. I know a lot of older people who have expressed hope in the younger generations, and I think that's what is being conveyed in these kinds of stories: hope.

last edited at Jan 28, 2023 6:37PM

Bisexuals exist.

Not in this manga it seems. Japan is still mostly stuck in "gender doesn't matter" or "this one is an exception" in yuri manga.

Isn't the "gender dosen't matter" outlook bisexual confirming? From what I've seen Japanese people are trying to fight for the strict gay and lesbian labels, as in "gender does matter to me, and i am only in love with the same gender."

For an example, there's the chapter in In Love with the Villainess, which is famous for being a social commentary on LGBT issues in Japan, where Rei's friend tries to pull the "gender dosen't matter, it's just so happens that Rei fell in love with a girl this time" card, and Rei (famously the authors mouthpiece) affirms that that isn't true, and she fell in love with Clair because she is a woman, not as an exception.

last edited at Jan 28, 2023 6:36PM

But the attempt to portray the author, and readers who do not share your outrage at this "unacceptable" trope, as being guilty of some kind of ethical lapse is entirely unconvincing, as is the implication that portraying any kind of behavior in a fantasy story featuring anthropomorphic animals constitutes an endorsement of that behavior in real life.

The theme here is a woman being forced to marry a man and pro create with him with no option to say no. Anyone who is not opposed to that idea does have a lapse in ethical judgment, period.

As with the original poster, by using the slipshod phrase “opposed to the idea,” this assertion conflates the use of the trope with approval of the behavior depicted.

It’s quite possible to feel sympathy for the queen as a character and still not regard the use of the trope as the “indefensible” ethical transgression of an author “slapping readers in the face.”

But the attempt to portray the author, and readers who do not share your outrage at this "unacceptable" trope, as being guilty of some kind of ethical lapse is entirely unconvincing, as is the implication that portraying any kind of behavior in a fantasy story featuring anthropomorphic animals constitutes an endorsement of that behavior in real life.

The theme here is a woman being forced to marry a man and pro create with him with no option to say no. Anyone who is not opposed to that idea does have a lapse in ethical judgment, period.

As with the original poster, by using the slipshod phrase “opposed to the idea,” this assertion conflates the use of the trope with approval of the behavior depicted.

It’s quite possible to feel sympathy for the queen as a character and still not regard the use of the trope as the “indefensible” ethical transgression of an author “slapping readers in the face.”

I agree. I guess I misunderstood your original assertion. However I do believe that showing there being zero consequences to such a thing as forced marriage would equate to approval, or at least dismissal. To say the queen is perfectly happy in her situation is deplorable, and also not what the author is conveying. If they were, I would call that a lapse in ethical judgment.

last edited at Jan 28, 2023 7:07PM

But the attempt to portray the author, and readers who do not share your outrage at this "unacceptable" trope, as being guilty of some kind of ethical lapse is entirely unconvincing, as is the implication that portraying any kind of behavior in a fantasy story featuring anthropomorphic animals constitutes an endorsement of that behavior in real life.

The theme here is a woman being forced to marry a man and pro create with him with no option to say no. Anyone who is not opposed to that idea does have a lapse in ethical judgment, period.

As with the original poster, by using the slipshod phrase “opposed to the idea,” this assertion conflates the use of the trope with approval of the behavior depicted.

It’s quite possible to feel sympathy for the queen as a character and still not regard the use of the trope as the “indefensible” ethical transgression of an author “slapping readers in the face.”

I agree. I guess I misunderstood your original assertion. However I do believe that showing there being zero consequences to such a thing as forced marriage would equate to approval, or at least dismissal.

Once again, “arranged marriage,” even when one or both parties initially enter into it with some trepidation (as people in all kinds of marriages routinely do) is not the same as “ forced marriage,” where one or more of the parties are coerced into the marriage against their will, and the fact that this discussion has routinely conflated the two has rendered the moralizing arguments extremely tendentious. The subtext to these arguments is “the queen is being raped,” which is entirely a projection onto the text.