Pressure doesn't have to be aggressive or violent. Ruki took advantage of Sachi's passivity and her situation to get her into bed. The fact that Ruki was motivated by True Love makes her sympathetic, but it doesn't make the whole thing not kind of gross.
Sachi should have spoken up. So should Ruki. But you're not going to convince me that a part of Ruki wasn't being strategic about not speaking up, especially after some of the stuff she said to Remi.

...

It's just... it's really hard for me to read what you're saying and not see it as including an aspect of "Ruki deserves to date the good, feminine Sacchan she had a crush on, because she was so loyal and so patient and stewed in silent pain from her longtime, hidden love."
Y'know, this kind of thing is usually dumb, but imagine RUKI is a man. Secretly in love with his best friend, he waits until like five minutes after she's had a painful breakup before confessing and (innocently!) pressuring her into a fake non-relationship she clearly isn't into. Instead of talking to her about it, he goes through with sex while she's listlessly lying there, not enjoying herself.

People have been accused of over-empathising with Ruki, but I think you're preoccupied with reducing Sacchan to a victim. Sacchan had clearly been hurt by her ex cheating on her and it must have made her feel inadequate. Sure Ruki sprung the fact that she liked her at a vulnerable moment, but she was trying to make her feel better about herself as much as anything, by letting her know someone out there still loved her and thought she was worth loving. I don't think it's wholly inappropriate to say that Sacchan took advantage of Ruki's feelings to make herself feel better. She even says "I was happy that she was serious about me" and "I was very happy to hear you say that you loved me". I think you're vastly over-estimating Ruki's emotional intelligence to think she was consciously capable of manipulating Sacchan in the way you're implying. Ruki had never been in a relationship before and didn't really know what to do, while Sacchan clearly brought her baggage from her previous relationship along. Neither of them were blameless, but honestly, I do think Sacchan was more to blame for how things panned out.

People have been accused of over-empathising with Ruki, but I think you're preoccupied with reducing Sacchan to a victim. Sacchan had clearly been hurt by her ex cheating on her and it must have made her feel inadequate. Sure Ruki sprung the fact that she liked her at a vulnerable moment, but she was trying to make her feel better about herself as much as anything, by letting her know someone out there still loved her and thought she was worth loving. I don't think it's wholly inappropriate to say that Sacchan took advantage of Ruki's feelings to make herself feel better. She even says "I was happy that she was serious about me" and "I was very happy to hear you say that you loved me". I think you're vastly over-estimating Ruki's emotional intelligence to think she was consciously capable of manipulating Sacchan in the way you're implying. Ruki had never been in a relationship before and didn't really know what to do, while Sacchan clearly brought her baggage from her previous relationship along. Neither of them were blameless, but honestly, I do think Sacchan was more to blame for how things panned out.

Oh, I don't think Ruki was necessarily fully conscious of the position she was putting Sachi in... though, I definitely think she willfully put a blind eye towards it when they had sex. None of that is unforgivable, but whether aware of it or not, Ruki DID put Sachi in an unfair position that played directly into her issues, and the fact that it was immaturity and not malice that caused it doesn't really make a difference for what happened later. In the real world, it's usually a blend of the two... but in the comic, yeah, I think we're supposed to see that Ruki's intentions are mostly good (in a very Japanese-woman definition of "good"), and it's her follow-through that sucks.

My main point is that Sachi WAS in an unfair position, and that Ruki was so afraid of rejection, she was content to leave her there perpetually. Noble motivations or not, that's not noble behavior.

People have been accused of over-empathising with Ruki, but I think you're preoccupied with reducing Sacchan to a victim. Sacchan had clearly been hurt by her ex cheating on her and it must have made her feel inadequate. Sure Ruki sprung the fact that she liked her at a vulnerable moment, but she was trying to make her feel better about herself as much as anything, by letting her know someone out there still loved her and thought she was worth loving. I don't think it's wholly inappropriate to say that Sacchan took advantage of Ruki's feelings to make herself feel better. She even says "I was happy that she was serious about me" and "I was very happy to hear you say that you loved me". I think you're vastly over-estimating Ruki's emotional intelligence to think she was consciously capable of manipulating Sacchan in the way you're implying. Ruki had never been in a relationship before and didn't really know what to do, while Sacchan clearly brought her baggage from her previous relationship along. Neither of them were blameless, but honestly, I do think Sacchan was more to blame for how things panned out.

Oh, I don't think Ruki was necessarily fully conscious of the position she was putting Sachi in... though, I definitely think she willfully put a blind eye towards it when they had sex. None of that is unforgivable, but whether aware of it or not, Ruki DID put Sachi in an unfair position that played directly into her issues, and the fact that it was immaturity and not malice that caused it doesn't really make a difference for what happened later. In the real world, it's usually a blend of the two... but in the comic, yeah, I think we're supposed to see that Ruki's intentions are mostly good (in a very Japanese-woman definition of "good"), and it's her follow-through that sucks.

My main point is that Sachi WAS in an unfair position, and that Ruki was so afraid of rejection, she was content to leave her there perpetually. Noble motivations or not, that's not noble behavior.

How on earth is sacchi in a unfair position? I don't see how Ruki put sacchi in an unfair position. Here I agree with what Purple Library Guy said "that she decided to just go with the flow and take an easy way out instead of communicating". Sacchi put her self in the situation she is. Ruki never forced her in the first place (read chapter 13 page 2 and 3), she could have say no to things she do not want, like having sex with ruki, but no, she just played along with everything, she just accepted everything. Why? because she got an unresolved issue from her previous relationship with her boyfriend, she is too afraid to speak up her mind, and she brought that baggage into her relationship with Ruki.

Ruki was hurt, but she was hurt because she thought Sachi was going to break up with her. She expressed more distress about driving badly than she did about the cheating, because her whole complex isn't being betrayed,

I don't think so. Ruki was the one who wanted to break up with sacchi, so that is not why she was hurt. She was hurt when she found out how sacchi and remi was sleeping together the whole month, she was hurt by that. That feeling of hurt was expressed in one single line "I have been hurt too much, there's no more place to hurt". Why was she distressing how she can't do anything smoothly until the very end? She was sad, hurt, and at the same time angry at herself. When a person is cheated on, what they usually distress on is not the cheating, but the feeling that you could not be the person the other party desires, that you could not be the one. That kind of emotion is what Ruki is showing, so I don't think Ruki is not hurt by sacchi cheating on her with remi, she is, she greatly is.

last edited at Feb 24, 2015 1:56PM

So I have been re-reading the last few chapters and I think Sachi and Remi only had sex that once. Remi was the only one that gave the month time-frame. Also from the conversation she had Ruki it was about since Sachi slept over at Remi's and borrowed her clothes. Ruki then assumed that was the date they started having sex together. Also from the confession Sachi gave Ruki she admited to doing lots of naughty things, but she gave no indication of an extended engagement, so to speak.

My issue is that the only actual points of reference of time was Sachi mentioning it was the rainy season while she was with Remi, and the Ruki commnenting that was already summer in the following. From what I have read the Japanese rainy season in from June to July. At this point I may be over thinking it, I am not sure if Ruki was making comment about it being the season of mummer or summer vacation. Which from I can remember from other sources is usually the month of August. Although Remi made the comment that Sachi was at home writing a report and Ruki is obviously still busy doing all her schoolwork, driving lessons, and working which is why she hadn't contacted Sachi yet.

Also it would make more sense that Sachi would forget her cellphone after a single night instead of one into an extended liaison. Plus this makes more sense for the characters in general. I couldn't see Sachi continuing on with an affair for that length of time. A moment of weakness certainly, but not a prolonged act of cruelty against someone who she may not have loved then but definitely cared about. I think that is why I had such a hard time understanding how I felt since this one issue just seemed so out of place. Furthermore it makes more sense for Remi character's since I think she just wants to see the world burn. Since I think from the conversations in Chapter 12 Remi was abused by her father for an extended period of time.

So I have been re-reading the last few chapters and I think Sachi and Remi only had sex that once. Remi was the only one that gave the month time-frame. Also from the conversation she had Ruki it was about since Sachi slept over at Remi's and borrowed her clothes. Ruki then assumed that was the date they started having sex together. Also from the confession Sachi gave Ruki she admited to doing lots of naughty things, but she gave no indication of an extended engagement, so to speak.

My issue is that the only actual points of reference of time was Sachi mentioning it was the rainy season while she was with Remi, and the Ruki commnenting that was already summer in the following. From what I have read the Japanese rainy season in from June to July. At this point I may be over thinking it, I am not sure if Ruki was making comment about it being the season of mummer or summer vacation. Which from I can remember from other sources is usually the month of August. Although Remi made the comment that Sachi was at home writing a report and Ruki is obviously still busy doing all her schoolwork, driving lessons, and working which is why she hadn't contacted Sachi yet.

Also it would make more sense that Sachi would forget her cellphone after a single night instead of one into an extended liaison. Plus this makes more sense for the characters in general. I couldn't see Sachi continuing on with an affair for that length of time. A moment of weakness certainly, but not a prolonged act of cruelty against someone who she may not have loved then but definitely cared about. I think that is why I had such a hard time understanding how I felt since this one issue just seemed so out of place. Furthermore it makes more sense for Remi character's since I think she just wants to see the world burn. Since I think from the conversations in Chapter 12 Remi was abused by her father for an extended period of time.

I agree... but it could be otherwise as well. I think Remi overstated it.

[A lot of people have commented on the the first scene in chapter 13. I think that is from three months ago when Sacchi and Remi first did it. The first time it was shown from Sacchi's point of view, this time it is Ruki's.]

I decided to go back to the beginning of the "more than friends" relationship between Ruki and Sachhi to review it and make sure everything is in context... here are my thoughts:

Reasons why Sacchi isn't as much of an iron-plated female dog as people are painting her as:people are painting her: (In spoilers because it is gonna get long and have quotes and stuff... Feel free to just skip it if you don't feel like reading long, boring exposition... I did it more for me than other people... LOL)

Chapter 5, page 164 - Ruki is being a shoulder to cry on for Sachi, who broke up with her boyfriend after catching him in bed with another woman and Ruki gives her the charaacter towel that she had bought for her as a gift.

Sachi: "I feel like maybe it would be better if I didn't get involved in something... like... love again."
Ruki (fighting back tears at her saying that) "You'll be fine. Don't say things like that. If the people who love you heard that, they would get sad, y'know?"
Sachi: "Hehe, Does anyone like that exist, I wonder? Thanks Ruki-chan. You're so nice to me."
Ruki: "I'm not saying this to be nice or to comfort you y'know." I might make her feel bad if I say it now, but... "They exist. Because I... Love you Sacchan."
[Sachi says its no good because she thinks Ruki is going out with Remi, that gets cleared up, with Ruki breaking down in tears.]
Sachi: "I see...So that's how it is... Then this present was... I get it..." [smiling ever so sweetly and holding up the towel] "Say, Ruki-chan. Do I have to give you an answer right away?"
Ruki: "No, Its okay. Whenever you feel like it.".
There is absolutely zero commitment at that point. They are friends, with the potential of more, nothing else.

Over the next few chapters they go on the occasional date and talk a lot while the Meru situation blows up around them and Fuu and Asuna's relationship dissolves into nothingness. Ruki does things like falling asleep at the movie, spacing out because she is worried about Fuu and not really listening to Sacchi, despite Fuu telling her to just concentrate on Sacchan, and obviously, to Sacchi's point of view, not sharing her troubles with her.

When Ruki finally tells her about how Fuu's break-up and Fuu not talking with her about it has her down and how she doesn't feel very comfortable hanging around Fuu right after her break-up, Sacchi gives Ruki a piece of her mind, telling her to take care of her friend, going as far as giving her a twack to the forehead hard enough to hurt both Ruki's head and her finger. Then she talks it over with Asuna, of all people, and all parties seem to feel better for it. When they get together later, Sacchi gives Ruki a sweet pat on the head to congratulate her on helping Fuu come to grips with her break-up. It is a very clear sign of affection, but still no commitment here. The section with the two of them ends with Ruki asking Sacchi if she could take a later train... The implication is that the beginning of the next chapter occurs that night.

Chapter 10 starts with what seems to be a flash-back to that night, when they first had sex, with Sacchi's thoughts accompanying it:
Sacchi: The first time I had sex with a woman was in the winter, about three months ago.
Ruki: "I Love You, Sacchan."
Sacchi: [i]hmm... What am I supposed to say to that?[/i] It was a cold day and it was snowing. I was happy she was serious about me. "Thanks." [i]Ruki is so slender. I can wrap my arms all the way around her... It feels different from a guy. But that she'll calm down if I let her do me is the same.[/i] Things became unclear between us.

They then proceed to run into Sachhi ex, which throws both of them off a bit. Ruki is concerned, but doesn't want to be pushy. Sacchi gets contacted by her ex who asks her to introduce him to Ruki. Sacchi's reaction to that is the first sign that she might have actual feelings for Ruki. She is terrified of her ex and afraid he might even rape her, but she absolutely does NOT want to introduce him to Ruki. She wants to talk to somebody about it, but Ruki is busy with work and her driving class. Sacchi decides to ask Remi for advice, which is probably the biggest mistake anyone could make.

Remi convinces her to just refuse to introduce him to the girl. (Sacchi doesn't say who it is but says she won't introduce her to him.) Remi considers her a pain, but understands that she is legitimately scared. She tells him to turn down the request and to tell him to stop contacting her. He actually apologizes to her for asking and for all the stuff that happened. Sacchi is so relieved that she cries. Remi seizes the opportunity to pounce on a vulnerable girl and kisses her. Sacchi is freaked out by it. She realizes on the way home that telling Ruki about what happened is a bad idea, though it might have been better in retrospect if she had, because Ruki could have warned her to stay away from Remi's predatory advances.

So, still no committed relationship, but Sacchi seems to have legit feelings for Ruki stirring, though she hasn't acknowledged them or told Ruki that she loves her or even agreed to go out with her on an exclusive basis. Sacchi's thoughts on Ruki at this point are as follows:

Ruki-chan is cute, earnest, and doesn't get angry. She's a really good girl. Even when we do it, she treats me so nicely. So why... Why does such a good girl say that she loves me, I wonder? I'm sure that someone much more suitable for Ruki-chan will appear some day.

It is clear that Sacchi doesn't consider their relationship long term at all and really doesn't love herself, let alone anyone else.

When Fuu asks Sacchi how things are going between her and Ruki, she just gives her a creepy smile that makes Fuu shudder and decide that it isn't worth the trouble to jump into that mass of dysfunction. (Typical Fuu... if she didn't avoid the tough stuff so much, so many things in this story would have been much smoother, including her and Asuna's relationship, which really shouldn't have broken up...

Ruki is insanely busy and they don't have much time to spend with each other. Ruki is worried that Sacchi hasn't contacted her, but specifically thinks that she doesn't want to tie her down because she is different from her ex. (complete with the dog collar visual...)

Meanwhile, Sacchi is waking up in Remi's bed. Remi assures her that nothing happened, just that she got too drunk with the rest of the girls last night and couldn't get back to her own home, so Remi brought her to her place, changed her clothes (into a racy, leopard print cami), and fixed her breakfast. They have a discussion about who would make the better wife, with Remi leveling heavy "You aren't really gay" hints at her. Sacchi talks about how she is having trouble understanding herself and states that being controlled by her scary boyfriend was easier in a lot of ways. Remi gets totally turned on by this vulnerability, thinking that "lovesick girls are seriously cute", which kind of indicates that Remi gets that Sacchi is falling for Ruki.

When Sacchi says she wants to go home to change, Remi tells her that she wants to see the "stronger side of her" and suggest that she borrow some of her clothes and get her some make up on the way to school.

Ruki notices that she looks different and thinks it is really cute, but is kind of zoning out. Fuu asks if everything is OK with them and points out what looks like a hickey on her upper arm, wondering why she wore a sleeveless blouse with that mark on her arm.Remi watches as Ruki freaks a bit about the fact that it looks like a hickey. When they get together, Ruki asks her about it and Sacchi genuinely is surprised that it is there, having no clue about it.

As they are about to part, Ruki asks Sacchi where she was last night and she tells her she was at Remi's. Ruki freaks a bit about that, since she has ... mixed memories .. of spending time there. Remi goes through all of her issues with it in her mind, realizing that the problem is hers because of her "mistake" last year and that if Sacchi says nothing is going on, she should believe her. Then thinks:

What am I to Sacchan? There's no reason for her to tell me everything in the first place.

We then find out that this is all happening during her driving lesson and she nearly crashed the car because she was so distracted.

The next chapter is where everything starts hitting the fan. Sacchi confronts Remi about whether she and Ruki had done it. She has a diagram showing Ruki --- loves --> Sacchi and Sacchi --- don't know --> Ruki, as well as Ruki <---did it last year ---> Remi.

It is clear that Sacchi is still not clear on how she feels about Ruki at this point. Sacchi comments that it didn't seem like it was the first time for Ruki, though she said she had never been in a relationship, so the thing with Remi explains a lot. Remi seduces her, but tells her she has to initiate it with a kiss, but not to expect it to stop there.

After having sex, Remi teases Sacchi about showing Ruki, who is working so hard, how she looks right now and Sacchi calls her awful. Remi asks if she is the only awful one, Sacchi says:

"I know I'm a more awful person than I thought I was. There's no way I can say anything bad about my ex-boyfriend now. Remi proceeds to spout a bunch of promiscuous philosophy, saying that it is normal to give in to temptation and that neither her or her ex are really awful, that in 10 years, her ex will be a normal :"good dad" and that Sacchi will "probably forget about your college experimentation, become a normal adult, marry normally, and live a normal life." Sacchi agrees with a smirk and Remi bites her shoulder and says, "But for now, let's fool around and do lots of bad things."

Fast forward a month. Ruki has gotten her driver's license and is talking with Fuu about the fact that she has been so busy she hasn't even been able to tell Sacchi about her plans to take her on a trip. It is clear that the fact that she stayed at Remi's is still weighing on her mind and probably part of the reason she has not really been seeing much of her over the past month, in addition to being way to busy. She is hesitant to even send her a text telling her she got her license. She decides she wants to hear her voice so she calls her and...

REMI ANSWERS!

Ruki asks her to go on a drive, which is typically scary. She confronts her about whether she is sleeping with Sacchi, which Remi gladly tells her they have been "doing it like crazy" for about a month and that they did it last night. Ruki asks if they are going out and Remi says no, she asks her why she is doing this and states that she just wants to make Sacchi happy and Remi retorts that "Sacchan's as straight as they come. She's not even bi. There's no way a woman could make her happy. To her we're no more than sex friends." Ruki reacts angrily, Remi kisses her forehead. Ruki asks her if she hates her or something and she tells her she likes both of them, but she just wanted to see her hurt, jealous face, pretty much. (Remi really lacks worth as a human being.) Ruki leaves, with Sacchan's phone and without Remi, who doesn't feel safe riding with her right now, for good reason...

Ruki thinks back to the first time she had sex with Sacchi, remembering that she wanted her to like her and accept her, and if she didn't, she wanted her to tell her. She notes that it was a "gentle acceptance, but just as much a refusal." In other words, Sacchi has still, to this day, not actually accepted Ruki's feelings and she understands that. In other words, she doesn't consider what Sacchi did with Remi to be cheating, it just hurts her to think that she was having casual sex with someone else and not making an effort to see her or respond to her feelings.

She goes to Sacchi's house to return her phone and asks her out on a date. Interestingly Sacchi wonders if she wants to go to a hotel, which pretty much says what Sacchi thinks of their relationship. (That is isn't really any different than her and Remi's, or that sex is all that really matters to people who say they love you? Not sure which.)

Ruki takes her on a drive, horribly. Gets lost, Sacchi notices Remi's perfume in the car right away and Ruki says they were on a drive earlier. (One wonders if Sacchi was a little jealous there, or nervous?)

When Ruki gets lost and breaks down crying, Ruki talks about wanting to make the girl she loves happy but being a failure. She mentions that she wanted this to be the last time before she gives up. Sacchi takes over driving and takes them where they were going, which turns out to be a bad luck date spot.

They talk about her ex and why she dated him and Sacchi talks about how she figured that she was supposed to date a strong man who would control her and "drag her along" and protect her. She tells Ruki that she was happy when Ruki said she loved her but thought that someone would surely come along to protect Ruki soon and had never really thought about a real future with another girl. Pretty much confirming what Remi had been saying up to this point. Ruki says she worked hard to get stronger for her and Sacchi tells her she did work hard, then tells her about her fooling around with Remi. She actually does phrase it as cheating, suggesting that she did feel bad for about it to some extent, but says that she really enjoyed sex for the first time, indicating that she hadn't really enjoyed sex with either remi or her ex, and that she feels she is a much stronger person than she used to be. Then she tells Ruki that, seeing her crying in the car, she felt that SHE could be the stronger person to protect Ruki and that it was the very first time she felt that. Ruki asks if this means she wants to go out with her, which seems to confirm that they hadn't been going out officially. Sacchi asks her why she is still in love with an awful person like herself and Ruki can't tell her why, is in a huge amount of pain, but still loves her beyond all comprehension. When she says she doesn't know where to start, Sacchi suggests with an embrace, and they do, and she teases her about her crying face being cute, which Ruki says is awful of her. Sacchi asks if she wants to do the love-lock thing that they bad-luck date site is famous for and she says there is no need.

The most telling thing that says that Sacchi is now ready to be a good girlfriend to Ruki and that she is actually in love with her is what happens when she gets home. She comes out to her sister.

That, my friends, is serious.

Sacchi did some bad things, she did some mean things, but she didn't actually violate Ruki's trust. They never had a committed relationship. They were dating informally, good friends, sex partners on occasion, but not in a monogamous, committed relationship. At this point, I'd say they are.

Sorry if this is overly long and massively redundant, but I felt that I needed to go through all that myself to really understand where things were. Frankly, I felt that Sacchi was horrible and being unfaithful to Ruki the first time through. Reading the chapters as they come out, I had forgotten how uncertain the relationship was. It seemed like they were a couple when, in reality, they were not. They were friends with benefits, and, it appears, that those benefits were really only on Ruki's side, as Sacchi was totally not into the sex they were having.

I hope there is some scorching hot sex between Ruki and Sacchi in the final chapter, with the two of them going off into a highly uncertain future as lovers who want to make it work for the long haul. I also want to see the rich girl and the food addict getting some serious aerobic exercise between the sheets. They are so right for each other! (I'd love to see Remi get hurt and torn to shreds, but she would have to be capable of emotion for that to happen. I don't want to see her physically hurt, that is not good, just emotionally scarred. To bad it won't happen.)

If Fuu and Asuna could get back together I would love it, but sometimes love isn't enough...

last edited at Feb 24, 2015 4:01PM

Holy crap. That spoiler essay tho.

Very impressive.

It looks like some top secret, leaked file from the agency...

wow the discussion here is lively as always.

For my part I am really happy with this chapter, they at least are going somewhere now.

All that trip on the car was a big analogy to what was their relationship. Ruki on the wheel leading them with honest feelings and wishes, but in the end getting them lost in the middle of nowhere while Sacchi continued her role of submissive girl.

Thats why, when she hears Sacchi tell her to stop, to go back..she feels like she is talking about them and thus starts to cry. Because she honsetly loves her, but she fails to give Sacchi the 'protection' or cool partner she thinks Sacchi needs. + not to mention the cheating, but even if it hurt her i think the worst part was with herself, again for not meeting their expectations (hers as not being a good lover for Sacchi even when trying hard and I guess her idea of Sacchi's)

The thing is. their relationship shifts the moment Sacchi takes the wheel, Metaphorically speaking. Is that the moment when we finally see Sacchi take a step for herself after figuring out not only herself but also what she wants for herslef. She takes the lead and drives them to their destination.

I mean yeah, it was awful for her to cheat, and i am not excusing her for that. But lets all be honest until this chapter Sacchi really wasn't into their relationshp. She was the hetero playing les because of idk going with the flow, loneliness, having someone loving her after her terrible relationship, etc.

But thanks to all that ordeal she came in terms with heself, she realized she didn't need to be protected that she was strong. In short, what Ruki was struggling so hard to give her wasn't what she needed... and after seeing her broke in tears, lost and vulnerable, -"such a good girl"- she decided that she wanted to be the one to protect her.

Yeah, her way to put things clear between them came out a bit harsh, but it was clear. I am one to think that after the bomb explodes, thats it, it can't hurt anyone anymore, you take the blow and move on. So, she said it bluntly, clear all in the open and then offered Ruki to if you want, "start again"

And I don't think less of Ruki for accepting, I think the greatest love is the one that can honestly forgive.

And that little part with Sacchi talking with her sister about bringing a gf. That settled it for me. They are on the same frequency now, on a new clean page and with both partners committed.

Hm, I think everyone is right, their relationship wasn't that serious after all, but it's not so much about the "cheating" than it is about the way she acted afterwards (after the first time she cheated)... She had this sort of sadistic behavior... I mean, I remembered when Sacchan and Ruki got lost in the forest and Sacchan screamed to calm down her nerves... she seemed like an emotional person who wouldn't bear hurting someone who loves her... Because well, it would make sense for her to have sex with Remi once and then realize that she was just being passive before but she wasn't actually like that... But I guess she wanted to keep doing things with Remi but didn't know how to say that to Ruki... But it's really strange, it's like her personality changed completely... Ugh, she did something cruel and realized that she didn't feel that bad about it after all and wouldn't mind keep doing it on top of that which made her come to the conclusion that she wasn't passive but instead "strong and cruel"... She admits that she's awful but her expressions and it's just... she doesn't seem like she really is conscious of what she has done.
Now that I think of it... "wrathful" is her characteristic... could that possibly mean that she likes to release her anger by hurting others? sort of like a sadist? is that why she said was cruel...? Also she sort of enjoys seeing Ruki crying and being hurt because she finds it cute...
I mean it kind of seems silly because Ruki was sort of a strong character and Sacchi didn't really like her but then when Ruki was hurt due to her she began liking her and wanted to protect her... (from the pain she herself had caused her?).
But anyway, ideally, a passive sort of girl would have started gaining confidence and have been able to comfort Ruki and tell her that she will also protect her and that she doesn't need to do everything on her own...

Omg! I re-read a bit of the 1st chapter and I find it so ironic how Ruki thought Sacchan was a fool for clinging onto her boyfriend like that.

last edited at Feb 24, 2015 6:01PM

Yup, to me it fells like Sacchi at least wants to be the boss in the relationship, not that she wants to protect Ruki.

Some years ago I was a big Shoujo fan, but even then I hated this kind of plot:
Girl is in love with a guy, has low self-esteem, because he is soooo hot. Then he somehow takes an interest in her and begins to totally dominate her. For her own good he says. And the girl is so happy and content that she can be his girlfriend. Period. This kind of story is horror and madness for me.
And I fear, that this manga might go in a similar direction. I mean, you have the girl with the low self-esteem, and now intruducing Sacchan with her new personality. Of course this story might be far more complex than the gist that I was just describing, but yeah, that sadistic feel... it's kinda similar.
Hm, maybe I just don't like stories that feature weak female leads. Ruki wants to be strong, that I can see. And she could be, if Sacchan doesn't take the lead. For example when Ruki got her driver's licence, she worked hard and it's amazing that she got it. Then suddenly it's worth nothing? Sacchan is now really strong, so I really think that their relationship will be bad for Ruki. As for Sacchan, I don't know. She wasn't serious at first, because she was so passive. She let herself be dominated even by Ruki. Good for her, that she is now more active, but I don't see how she can get from not caring about Ruki's feelings to protecting girlfriend. Unless protecting in this case means possessing.

After babbling, can I just say how much I love this discussion? Thanks for all your opinions. Even though I don't agree with some it is great to see and try to understand different approaches on this. Also looking on the heated discussion, you might say, that this chapter was a huge success to the mangaka.^^

last edited at Feb 24, 2015 6:20PM

I think if we view her as wrathful it would in so much she hurt someone in the way she herself was hurt. For Sachi she saw herself in the same position as her ex, and I think it is important to remember that her sleeping with Remi wasn't an act of malice rather I think apathy. Sachi saw herself in this "relationship" that she just fell into and had no real say or interest in shaping. She just saw it as Ruki messing around and figure she would move on when she got bored. No I am not saying it is good thing, but after sleeping with Remi she understood it all better, from the relationship, Ruki and even herself. Now I stand by my reasoning Remi and Sachi only slept together once, as to whether she wanted to sleep with Remi again? Personally I doubt she did, although she did come to understand that sex could be enjoyable thing I think she did want her next time to be with Ruki.I point to her saying to Ruki if she wanted go to a hotel, that way Sachi could confess her actions (away from the ears of her family) and then leave the rest up to Ruki.

This is messy relationship to be sure, but I think that is why it is also so enthralling. And this is a point I wanted to get to. I think the confession of her infidelity could also in some twisted way be seen as her confession of love to Ruki. I feel that Sachi understands the weight and the consequences of her actions. Her referring back to her ex is an important aspect of her story. Her relationship with Ruki is a mirror of that with her ex, with her in place of her ex in so much that she is going along with relationship she is rather indifferent to. The twist is that unlike her ex who probably cared little or nothing about Sachi, Sachi does care for Ruki even if she can't understand it or even accept that part of her. The act of having sex with Remi was a shock to her system, it knocked her out her apathy and forced her to make decision. I think we saw this at other points like when Ruki took her phone while lost or when her ex wanted her to him to Ruki. Sachi doesn't seem to want to take matters of the heart in her own hands since she seems unsure what it is she evens wants, preferring to go with flow and let herself be used. Which I think in part was why she slept with Remi, Remi wanted to use her in some twisted game she had planned for Ruki.After the fact though I think we finally she her realize she needs to take an active role in all of this.

Anyway getting back to confession. I do like to see this as the start of their actual relationship. Since now Sachi can actually tell Ruki her true feelings, basically this the response Ruki has been waiting for since chapter 5. But at the same time Sachi is waiting for Ruki to respone to her now knowing who Sachi really is and not this image she had of her. Sachi was blunt as other said, but I don't think she wanted to have anything based of a lie. Her entire relationship with her ex was just that and she knew how that could tear you up inside. She told Ruki the truth and then let the choice be hers, which I think in way was so they had equal footing in the relationship.

The thing is despite what we would like we all have this bit of darkness inside of us. This piece that causes us to do things we regret and hate afterwards. It is there and to try ignore it only leads it gaining more control. This is why I enjoy Ruki and Sachi as a couple. Sachi admitted to be cruel and having hurt Ruki, but she didn't want to hide it and hurt her further. At that moment she was asking Ruki if she could love this cruel version of her, wanting her to know that she could be like this and if she could still love her despite it.

This not something I see to often, we saw this character at her lowest and yet she can still be loved. I know there is a lot of idealization in yuri, which I don't mind. A happy feel good romance can brighten my day. But this story went for a more difficult path and I love it. I can completely understand why it is so polarizing and why some people will hate it. But for me it hit such a cord and I have not been so happy to talk about a comic in so long.

The thing is despite what we would like we all have this bit of darkness inside of us. This piece that causes us to do things we regret and hate afterwards. It is there and to try ignore it only leads it gaining more control. This is why I enjoy Ruki and Sachi as a couple. Sachi admitted to be cruel and having hurt Ruki, but she didn't want to hide it and hurt her further. At that moment she was asking Ruki if she could love this cruel version of her, wanting her to know that she could be like this and if she could still love her despite it.

Point taken. It surely takes a lot of courage and strength to show someone your worst sides. And if they still love you despite that, it certainly is beautiful This might be what this manga is trying to achieve. However, I don't see Sacchi regretting it and she doesn't hate that she hurt Ruki, she rather enjoys it I'd say. And that's where the story gets nasty for me. Sacchi doesn't take responsibility for her previous actions, but this doesn't seem so important to Ruki. That's what I can't understand. To me it looks like Sacchi sweet-talked Ruki into something she didn't want before. Hell, that's realistic, but not healthy. if you're in love you do stupid things and everything to be with someone, but there comes a time, when you need to rely on your partner. I got the impression, that Ruki became a toy.
There are so many things in that story that put me of. Partly I love this, because it's dark and different and partly I don't like it at all, lol.^^

last edited at Feb 24, 2015 6:50PM

The thing is despite what we would like we all have this bit of darkness inside of us. This piece that causes us to do things we regret and hate afterwards. It is there and to try ignore it only leads it gaining more control. This is why I enjoy Ruki and Sachi as a couple. Sachi admitted to be cruel and having hurt Ruki, but she didn't want to hide it and hurt her further. At that moment she was asking Ruki if she could love this cruel version of her, wanting her to know that she could be like this and if she could still love her despite it.

Point taken. It surely takes a lot of courage and strength to show someone your worst sides. And if they still love you despite that, it certainly is beautiful This might be what this manga is trying to achieve. However, I don't see Sacchi regretting it and she doesn't hate that she hurt Ruki, she rather enjoys it I'd say. And that's where the story gets nasty for me. Sacchi doesn't take responsibility for her previous actions, but this doesn't seem so important to Ruki. That's what I can't understand. To me it looks like Sacchi sweet-talked Ruki into something she didn't want before. (Ruki wanted to break up) Hell, that's realistic, but not healthy. if you're in love you do stupid things and everything to be with someone, but there comes a time, when you need to rely on your partner. I got the impression, that Ruki became a toy.
There are so many things in that story that put me of. Partly I love this, because it's dark and different and partly I don't like it at all, lol.^^

Saying that she enjoys it is stretching it for me.
I will take the long way but i have a point, promise xD I remember that part that Remi was talking with Sacchi after she met her ex and chatted like nothing and he looked decent and all.. Remi told Sacchi, that even if she resented him for what he did to her, he would probably in the future be a loving father and caring husband and him cheating on her a mistake or something he did in his youth.

I think the premise of the story is to show this highly flawed young adults make a mess in the way of growing and molding thenselves.
I think in a way Sacchi feels that way about it. She ended a terrible relationship and entered in another one, in which she wasn't herself, cared but didn't love and she wasn't getting what she needed. A relationship with no future that was already hurting Ruki. and would have ended with them breaking up anyway. I believe thats why she is not sorry about it.

The sweet talk part, i guess if Ruki wanted to end things before Sacchan was able to get a grip of what she wanted she would have acepted it and moved on easily. The thing is, she now wants to be that person.
I think that, more than an experience and growing that would help her for her next relationship she wants to try and start anew again with Ruki. If she can accept this version of her. And I think she owns Ruki the chance of making her happy.

yep what i like of this is that characters are more complex than typica shoujo and yuri
And all the debate it stirs lol

Point taken. It surely takes a lot of courage and strength to show someone your worst sides. And if they still love you despite that, it certainly is beautiful This might be what this manga is trying to achieve. However, I don't see Sacchi regretting it and she doesn't hate that she hurt Ruki, she rather enjoys it I'd say. And that's where the story gets nasty for me. Sacchi doesn't take responsibility for her previous actions, but this doesn't seem so important to Ruki. That's what I can't understand. To me it looks like Sacchi sweet-talked Ruki into something she didn't want before. Hell, that's realistic, but not healthy. if you're in love you do stupid things and everything to be with someone, but there comes a time, when you need to rely on your partner. I got the impression, that Ruki became a toy.
There are so many things in that story that put me of. Partly I love this, because it's dark and different and partly I don't like it at all, lol.^^

I personally didn't get that impression, but I do get how you could see that. For me I see the confession, which was brought up by Sachi without her knowing Ruki already knew, was about just being honest. Which for Sachi was something she never was before in relationship. For her she needed this to be matter of fact: I slept with someone other than you. She didn't want to dress it up with excuses, it happened and nothing can change that. She understood what she did and that she hurt Ruki. For her she needed to know if Ruki could still love her even after all of it. This may just be me reading into the story, but by the fact Sachi is admitting she was cruel and hurt Ruki she does regret it. For me I don't see how a person could know they hurt another person especially one they care about and not feel shame and regret. The thing is I don't think she should ask for forgiveness since I don't think you can here. They either have to except that it happened and move forward, or end it right there.

Is this relationship healthy and are they truly committed to each other now? I think so, I hope that they are.

last edited at Feb 24, 2015 7:56PM

By the way, they're right. A majority/authoritative power in any situation generally can't claim any type of bias against them, because it isn't bias - it's the oppressed defending themselves. It's not just for gender/sex either. Race, class differences (check out Dalits in India), etc. also experience the same thing. It's more or less a "perk" of being the underdog (either through a current situation or past history, like slavery).

Corvus, I am relieved someone in this forum is educated on political structures, institutional power, and social issues. Really <3 you right now. lol

I must say, though I find some of the writing in this manga to be lazy as hell, peeps are incredibly invested in arguing the nuances of this piece of work. Gotta give her that.

I never lost hope on this series, not even once! Even with all those earlier vexing chapters. Love you Amano Shuninta!

I never lost hope on this series, not even once! Even with all those earlier vexing chapters. Love you Amano Shuninta!

Yes, a fellow believer!!

Holy crap. That spoiler essay tho.

Lmao I know right! Hurt my eyes!

I never lost hope on this series, not even once! Even with all those earlier vexing chapters. Love you Amano Shuninta!

Yes, a fellow believer!!

We are in the minority on this one comrades. We gotta fight through.

A biatch is all I saw in this chapter ladies and gentlemen call it wha you want but cheating is cheating. Now is ok to do so act like a complete utter douche bag and stay with the good girl. If it were a boy and girl you wouldn't see it the same way. Ok let's see it this way sacchan will slept with whomever she feels like from now on. why wouldn't she Ruki is what we call a conformist. She will stay with her even if she cheated on her very own eyes. There's something definitely wrong with these girls and they need a psychologist at least 5 years of therapyt o help them not to be a conformist among other things

last edited at Feb 26, 2015 2:05AM

It's unhealthily realistic and that's why I love it.

And that's why i read Shuninta.
Admittedly, this manga eventually ended up cutting like a knife. Can't say i enjoyed seeing Ruki getting into an unsatisfying (to say the least) relationship rather than finding someone to be happy with.
But normally i like my Shuninta for its less-than-ideal characters/romances.

Sorry if this is overly long and massively redundant, but I felt that I needed to go through all that myself to really understand where things were. Frankly, I felt that Sacchi was horrible and being unfaithful to Ruki the first time through. Reading the chapters as they come out, I had forgotten how uncertain the relationship was. It seemed like they were a couple when, in reality, they were not. They were friends with benefits, and, it appears, that those benefits were really only on Ruki's side, as Sacchi was totally not into the sex they were having.

Thanks for this, reading your comment has made me realize that i need to re-read the manga in one go from the start. I was under the impression that the two were in a relationship (albeit an unhealthy one) and so Sacchi was betraying Ruki's trust but that was from reading the chapters as they came out which probably left it more misleading. So Ruki's hurt seems to be more from the person she was in love with not being serious about her (until now) and being with someone else, which is unfortunate but it's not really cheating (at least it doesn't sound that way). Still think the relationship could be problematic judging by how Sacchi seems to view Ruki (weak) but from what you are saying it doesn't seem that Sacchi was betraying Ruki and so the ending is somewhat less unsatisfactory now. ^-^;;; I have been thinking about buying the manga in French and i suppose i have a good excuse now that i want to read it all again and clarify things. :)

But yeah Remi's still a dick. :P

You know that is what I like about this story, each read through you start to put more of the pieces together. I am starting to wonder if was it designed that way on purpose. The first time through you just have this quick gut reaction, but then after you calm down and look it over again you see a whole another side to story. Maybe some analogue to how feelings run in high in actual relationships. Or that is just me reading into it again.

The only thing I know for sure is that I can't wait to see how it all finishes up. Also I hope Ruki and Sacchi share a nice, long, passionate kiss right in front of Remi. I am convinced Remi has some serious emotional trauma, but still screw her.

I'm very interested in Remi though, I feel like there is a lot more interesting things to learn about her. Like her ulterior motifs. I believe that there is something in there more than just lust and game for her. I feel like, there's more... depth. About that symbolism with the bottle on the sea, I'm not so sure what that meant. It's okay to have opinions about it, but I think it's too early to make a definitive judgement about the characters yet, considering that the manga isn't close to finish yet(or so I believe)

I remember dropping this manga a long time ago because it didn't get frequently updated and it pissed me off. But, after re reading it, I've noticed some changes in my perspective about this manga. At first, I was like, this manga is so strange, it's a total cliche sometimes but other times, it just surprises you as well. And upon re reading this, it made me look more in depth with the characters, like Remi, Meru, Ruki, Maasa, and etc. Honestly, I didn't like many of the characters, not because they are unlikable but because I feel like they are too excruciatingly realistic(my opinion). Sometimes, it's really hard to watch/read something with realistic portrayals, especially the bad parts of it. And this manga made me feel like that, icky, disgusted, humiliated and utterly baffled.

I liked that Fue was asexual though because asexuality in most mangas are so underrated, I feel like she's the first one I've ever read that is asexual. What I didn't like and felt uncomfortable reading was Asuna's lustful mind, which was definitely not a bad characterization but rather, a very cruel portrayal of a real college person. And yes, everyone of them are. Fue's got to be my favorite, not because she's asexual, but because she's complex and diverse, she seriously got some wisdom for someone who choose to look at them self as a child/kid, much like me.(and sleepy most of the times)

Maasa on the other hand, is pretty interesting too. If we shake off her weirdness, she could also be our one little miss perfect character. I especially love her confident personality and her being a hard worker. I wish we'd see more of her complexity. And other than her weird stature, she's also especially kind and blunt and helpful, and I can't wait to see more of her and Meru! Meru though, I don't find her so compelling like Fue and Maasa but I kind of, sort of, like her character, for laughs. She's a really loose-control girl and has weight issues, and I like that Maasa doesn't make her feel insecure about her weight, doesn't tell her that she's not fat, but instead, she tells her subtly that it's okay to be fat, and that it's cute. I don't know if this was intentional in her part, but that one really is good and hit right through Meru's chest.

Leaves us with only Saachan, Ruki and Remi drama. This one is pretty interesting and is also very hard for me to read. One reason is because I don't really agree with either their actions and decisions, but it's undeniably too realistic for me. I like the situation though, Saachan and Remi going behind Ruki's back(although Saachan and Ruki aren't really going out that time yet), taking advantage of her busy days to hook up, which led to conflicts between the three of them, but ended up with Saachan confessing and asking Ruki out and they live happily ever after (?). I like it because it's realistic. Yes, I said it, realistic. Think about this, it's not that easy to get over your crush, and if your crush asks you out when you know you're still hung up on them, an impulsive reaction will pull you right in. But the story is not over yet, it has only begun. There's so much more left to be uncovered. There will be more to tell about them and I refuse to believe that that's how they're going to end with Saachan-Ruki story arc, it's just too simple and too forced, there's gotta be something that will shake things up. And what about Remi, I feel like this girl has so much of her character that's left unsaid except for being lustful and manipulative. Did she genuinely liked Saachan or Ruki? I want to know so bad.

All these is my own personal opinion