....Wait is this a thing???? Oh no. ):

No, it's not, people are misunderstanding a single line of an interview.

You mean the line where she said this is not yuri, it's 'pure love' between girls? e.e

That is not what she said. I translated her actual quote here:

"I'm not sure whether the manga I'm writing is what people call 'yuri.' It's more like 'love between women'; I feel a fascination toward that theme. There was a time when I myself struggled [she uses "nayamu" here] with my sexuality, so it makes me very happy to see people with different sexualities, backgrounds, lives, and occupations read the stories and characters born from that time [in my life]. Please continue to kindly watch over Mitsuki and Aya."

She did not use the term "pure love." She talks about her struggles with her sexuality when she was younger, and says this story was inspired by that time in her life. I don't know how this telephone game got started where people think she spoiled the ending; I assume it's a misunderstanding of what "yuri" means in Japan. It is not a synonym for "wlw"; at least for some people, it's a specific genre with specific tropes that Arai Sumiko does not necessarily want to identify herself with.

Here's the deal: literally everything Arai has ever written has contained yuri. All of the single images she's posted on Twitter are yuri, including the forerunner to this very comic. Her Twitter profile says she likes "love between girls," and the term she uses, 恋愛, specifically has romantic connotations. This comic itself has blatantly foreshadowed a romantic ending, with the character bios explicitly saying Aya isn't interested in boys. Somehow a meme to the contrary has spread based on a mistranslation or misunderstanding of a single line from an interview and it pisses me off lol.

Edit: The particular irony here is one of the connotations "yuri" has in Japan is actually that it's just "pure love"! Read this page for more information on the connotations the term has in Japan that it usually doesn't in the Western fanbase.

last edited at Sep 5, 2022 11:37PM

In response to Cogito ^^

Great summation! It's been explained before, but people don't read the whole thread. They come in every once in a while, and it's so much harder to correct a misunderstanding once it exists. I doubt it will end until they kiss or something.

it's insane to me how blow out of proportion that interview got and how so many people just assumed the worst.

but it's impossible to think that this would be anything else but romantic love if you've ever looked at any of their other work. I genuinely do not understand how this happened and had so many people buy into this being anything other than a romance.

Pyrrho posted:

An 18.5 insert chapter would help quite a bit. Where are the chapter titles from? I don't see chapter numbers nor titles on twitter.

The titles are the text of the tweet. They're not on the pages.

I could translate the chapter titles Amarrez didn't translate, but I would be able to update them only on Dynasty.

Edit: done.

last edited at Sep 6, 2022 9:04AM

I could translate the chapter titles Amarrez didn't translate, but I would be able to update them only on Dynasty.

Edit: done.

Thanks Kirin!

I could translate the chapter titles Amarrez didn't translate, but I would be able to update them only on Dynasty.

Edit: done.

Ah, these are great. Especially 12. :D

Read this page for more information on the connotations the term "yuri" has in Japan that it usually doesn't in the Western fanbase.

Um.

Read this page for more information on the connotations the term "yuri" has in Japan that it usually doesn't in the Western fanbase.

Um.

You see my point? If anything, by saying she's not sure if it's "yuri," Arai is (most likely) saying it won't end in ambiguity or subtext.

Read this page for more information on the connotations the term "yuri" has in Japan that it usually doesn't in the Western fanbase.

[pic snip]

Um.

Keep in mind: that conversation took place ~13 years ago. Not saying that definitions have changed, but no reason to assume they haven't, especially when you're looking at generational differences.

last edited at Sep 6, 2022 4:05PM

A couple things -
God, this manga is so heartbreakingly beautiful. Both the actual art but also just the sincerity of the story telling. It’s one of the few manga that really gets that feeling of being a messy teen trying to figure out love (and then accidentally sexuality) for the first time. I’ve started sending this series around to folks who aren’t into wlw romance comics but want to see what’s good in the space.

Meta -
I think a lot of the meta debate needs to be moved into another thread because it’s becoming a massive buzzkill to see the same people arguing in the comments over the arcana of translation and what does yuri REALLY mean, to the point that it’s drowning out any and all discussion of the actual work. I dropped out of grad school to get away from people arguing the enjoyment out of everything I found interesting, and it’s really bad vibes to see that sort of circular argumentation happen here. It’s just really tedious y’all.

i don't know what ya'll talking about, this def gay yo
AND IM LIVING FOR IT

YES!!!

Man this comment section is wild lmao

This comment section leaves no stone unturned. Even the stones with centipedes hiding under them, or the stones labeled "please do not turn," or the stones that suspiciously resemble land mines.

it's been like this ever since this was first uploaded onto the site. we keep going back to this heavy rotations of arguments and debates. I say, just enjoy this story til it comes to an end. keep gay and carry on the crimes.

anyone else getting serious psychological horror vibes coming off chapters 18 and 19? like... you felt that right??

yeah ch18 reminds me of those movies where fmc follows her gut (or accidentally) checks out the phone of her husband and finds out theyre the killer/stalker, and instead of managing to hide and getting away with it like Aya did, the culprit would then show up right behind them like what are you doing?

Read this page for more information on the connotations the term "yuri" has in Japan that it usually doesn't in the Western fanbase.

[pic snip]

Um.

Keep in mind: that conversation took place ~13 years ago. Not saying that definitions have changed, but no reason to assume they haven't, especially when you're looking at generational differences.

They have changed alright. That definition is very 2010-ish. People used to complain all the time that girl x girl romance in manga was full of platonic ambiguity and avoided gay stuff like the plague, but not anymore. I'm following at the moment a couple dozen manga in Dynasty reader and there's not one that doesn't have lesbian desire and lesbian sex.

last edited at Sep 6, 2022 10:43PM

Okay, it's getting tense

But also, not Mitsuki reminding me of a terrible experience '-'

I think people forget that the Uncle ships them. He already told them to use the playlist they made for each other at the wedding lmaoo

y'all need to chill and just enjoy the flow of the story

You see my point? If anything, by saying she's not sure if it's "yuri," Arai is (most likely) saying it won't end in ambiguity or subtext.

I actually do not see your point because you keep deliberately repeating the same lines while completely ignoring the thorough debunking that was provided previously on more than one occasion. The term "yuri" is used in Japan to refer to both the "pure/ambiguous" stuff and to the sexually/romantically explicit content. There is a small part of the Japanese fanbase that does not ascribe to this (basically the Japanese equivalent of the western "shoujo ai" crowd), who insist on using "yuri" for "pure/ambiguous" stuff while reserving the term "rezu" (from "rezubian" - "lesbian") for the explicit material.

It is a telling usage of terms because "rezu" is seen as being derogatory in real life in Japan, which is why actual lesbians there prefer to use "bian" (the other half of the word) instead. As a result, apart from the "purists", the manga industry as a whole uses "yuri" to refer to the whole genre, as do most of the fans. The same way western "shoujo ai versus yuri" crowd is shunned by the majority of the fanbase, the Japanese "yuri versus rezu" is as well, which is why you will not find many more examples for "yuri" meaning "ambiguous stuff" other than that 12 year old afterword that you keep linking.

To be exact she used the term 愛情 which can mean love/affection. It contains the kanji for romantic love and the kanji for feelings. Since she opposes it to Yuri and in the same sentence talks about struggling in her sexuality in the past, I think she means that /in that specific manga/ she doesn't want to write a yuri romance, like, say, Hana ni Harashi, but about feelings of attraction/affection between girls. Ie, the confusion of feelings of a girl who's attracted to another girl but can't put a name on it.

Which means they may not become a couple and date, but may come to acknowledge their mutual attraction. And that will be the end of the manga

What the scanlator said, and to me this does sound as a warning for an ambiguous ending, which is the exact opposite of what you continuously claim.

last edited at Sep 7, 2022 3:13PM

They have changed alright. That definition is very 2010-ish. People used to complain all the time that girl x girl romance in manga was full of platonic ambiguity and avoided gay stuff like the plague, but not anymore. I'm following at the moment a couple dozen manga in Dynasty reader and there's not one that doesn't have lesbian desire and lesbian sex.

I remember well those times, I've been into yuri for a long time and I remember fans used to get furious at those stories where two chicks were obviously madly in love but never said it clearly and never even kissed. Heck, if memory's right, that was how the hand-holding meme came into being: at the time, the climax of the love story came when one girl held the other's hand and they both blushed! It was the moment of admission of feelings, the much-awaited, squeal-inducing consummation of their long and passionate mutual seduction! Man, those were the days! Lol.

To people who argue about this manga and romance, I say this: I have no clue how very yuri the story of Aya and Mitsuki will get, but I'm 100% sure that whatever happens they will at least hold hands. Yup, I'm positive. ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)

last edited at Sep 7, 2022 3:48PM

Meta -
I think a lot of the meta debate needs to be moved into another thread because it’s becoming a massive buzzkill to see the same people arguing in the comments over the arcana of translation and what does yuri REALLY mean, to the point that it’s drowning out any and all discussion of the actual work. I dropped out of grad school to get away from people arguing the enjoyment out of everything I found interesting, and it’s really bad vibes to see that sort of circular argumentation happen here. It’s just really tedious y’all.

Truth be told, there is not much to discuss story-related, it is a 4-page Twitter short. At least a quarter of the thread is discussing music and bands, which is honestly at best only tangentially related to the story proper, with the actual song list being pretty vanilla. At least another quarter is people doing what you are doing now, complaining about other posters. I would say both of these take far more space than an occasional discussion about translation (I myself was involved in a brief discussion regarding Mitsuki's actions that at the time I looked totalled 7 posts in all, and all of them fairly civil - but there were 19 posts that commented on the people commenting, many fairly rude - I think it is kind of self-explanatory where the problem actually is).

last edited at Sep 7, 2022 4:23PM

I'm tired of arguing about the best way to interpret a single line from a single interview. None of us know for sure what Arai Sumiko thinks "yuri" is. What we do know is she hasn't hesitated to show wlw romance in literally all her other works, and there's no reason to think she's suddenly grown cold feet now.

last edited at Sep 7, 2022 5:11PM

I'm tired of arguing about the best way to interpret a single line from a single interview. None of us know for sure what Arai Sumiko thinks "yuri" is. What we do know is she hasn't hesitated to show wlw romance in literally all her other works, and there's no reason to think she's suddenly grown cold feet now.

!!!!!!!
Exactly!
Now can we please just appreciate the art and music refs? And that the plot is moving along?

This interview came out so long ago, the heck

The story continues at a slow-but-steady clip and I'm fairly confident will have a good resolution, but "A new semester of Don't Ask, Don't Tell" may just take the cake as the most unpleasant chapter title for a yuri manga ever.

last edited at Sep 8, 2022 12:08AM

Heck, if memory's right, that was how the hand-holding meme came into being: at the time, the climax of the love story came when one girl held the other's hand and they both blushed!

I always thought it started with Uranus / Neptune and their famous hand-holding moment. —"These hands are dirtied from doing evil deeds..." —"Not true, I love your beautiful hands!"

bosto posted:

The story continues at a slow-but-steady clip and I'm fairly confident will have a good resolution,

but what if it ends on a "girls can't do that" and twitter explodes then burns down then explodes again, wouldn't that be fucked up or what