Forum › Ise-san and Shima-san discussion

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

Okay the chapter did end really good but did Isa just forget Shima told her she was gay that one time?

That was my question too. This setup didn’t quite make sense, given what Ise knows about her.

Screenshot%202024-01-18%20181127
joined Jun 21, 2021

Okay the chapter did end really good but did Isa just forget Shima told her she was gay that one time?

That was my question too. This setup didn’t quite make sense, given what Ise knows about her.

I'm not sure how it is in the jap. script but at least as far as the translation goes, Shima technically never said she "only" loves women. So being bisexual is totally smth in the realm of possibility for her.

Avatar4
joined Sep 9, 2016

Okay the chapter did end really good but did Isa just forget Shima told her she was gay that one time?

That was my question too. This setup didn’t quite make sense, given what Ise knows about her.

I'm not sure how it is in the jap. script but at least as far as the translation goes, Shima technically never said she "only" loves women. So being bisexual is totally smth in the realm of possibility for her.

I see the point, but I'll admit I'm one of those that read her declaration to Ise as a pretty direct "I'm gay" and her recounting of being irked by her former classmates setting her up with men make me think she's nowhere near bi. Sorry if that sounds bad/weird.

Also, the fact that she seemed to have as much confidence in coming out to Ise like she did, if she was bi I'd see no reason to not declare it as such. I hope that makes sense.

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

Okay the chapter did end really good but did Isa just forget Shima told her she was gay that one time?

That was my question too. This setup didn’t quite make sense, given what Ise knows about her.

I'm not sure how it is in the jap. script but at least as far as the translation goes, Shima technically never said she "only" loves women. So being bisexual is totally smth in the realm of possibility for her.

You’re technically correct, of course, and I did think of that, but this scene really doesn’t feel like a confession of bisexuality:

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/ise_san_and_shima_san_ch15#23

In fact, as Shima goes on to say, that scene ultimately feels like Ise proposing to Shima. (Both these “set the other one up with a guy” arcs—this one and the one with the married guy from the train—seem weirdly out of place in this same-sex life-partners story.)

last edited at Aug 13, 2021 8:43PM

Jl83e9qs73r71
joined Jun 11, 2021

Bisexuality isn't out of the question, but anyway, this chapter reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally continues with the part where they're basically dating without knowing it

Screenshot%202024-01-18%20181127
joined Jun 21, 2021

Okay the chapter did end really good but did Isa just forget Shima told her she was gay that one time?

That was my question too. This setup didn’t quite make sense, given what Ise knows about her.

I'm not sure how it is in the jap. script but at least as far as the translation goes, Shima technically never said she "only" loves women. So being bisexual is totally smth in the realm of possibility for her.

You’re technically correct, of course, and I did think of that, but this scene really doesn’t feel like a confession of bisexuality:

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/ise_san_and_shima_san_ch15#23

In fact, as Shima goes on to say, that scene ultimately feels like Ise proposing to Shima. (Both these “set the other one up with a guy” arcs—this one and the one with the married guy from the train—seem weirdly out of place in this same-sex life-partners story.)

I do totally agree that it seems weird. Her coming out didn't read as her being bi to me either, so this chapter does feel p out of place. But then she also gives an actual answer to what she prefers in men (albeit in a way that can be read as her being an airhead and not realizing Ise means "preference" in terms of romantic compatibility), and not something along the lines of "i don't prefer men at all, since i'm gay", like you'd expect.

So i don't know if that was intended by the author or if it was some awkward slipup but ye. weird.

Runrin-icon-wrd-2
joined Feb 9, 2019

so close to the yuri tag. i love these two.

Fetish%20notebook%20lsmol
joined May 20, 2013

I'm glad I wasn't the only want confused between the flashback and Ch18

Charon-sml
joined Feb 14, 2016

Finally some good fucking subtext

Runrin-icon-wrd-2
joined Feb 9, 2019

Finally some good fucking subtext

That sleeve grab

Screenshot_2020-10-28_003849_2_2_69
joined Sep 14, 2014

Finally some good fucking subtext

That sleeve grab

when you're so close yet so far~ hgnnnnn

MapleLovesYuri
Okay%20magge
joined Mar 5, 2021

i swear when shima did the sleeve grab i though she was moving for a kiss. I hope one day this two feelings will bloom.

0ee2c60a-7956-404b-9118-b3d2a41bdeae
joined Dec 7, 2020

Finally some good fucking subtext

That sleeve grab

when you're so close yet so far~ hgnnnnn

Literally the tag line of Subtext

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

Finally some good fucking subtext

That sleeve grab

when you're so close yet so far~ hgnnnnn

Literally the tag line of Subtext

When you want to tell the MCs “Get a room!” when the whole premise of the series is that they’ve already got a room.

E1f7694b-042f-443d-a5cb-df7de61c8a40
joined Dec 29, 2013

Finally some good fucking subtext

That sleeve grab

when you're so close yet so far~ hgnnnnn

Literally the tag line of Subtext

When you want to tell the MCs “Get a room!” when the whole premise of the series is that they’ve already got a room.

Ho ho ho

OrangePekoe Admin
Animesher.com_tamako-market-midori-tokiwa-deviantart-950416a
joined Mar 20, 2013

Blastaar posted:

Finally some good fucking subtext

That sleeve grab

when you're so close yet so far~ hgnnnnn

Literally the tag line of Subtext

When you want to tell the MCs “Get a room!” when the whole premise of the series is that they’ve already got a room.

Ugh, I hate this lol, good job.

joined Sep 6, 2020

It's happening, I can feel it we are drawing closer and closer to it.

Subaru
joined Jul 31, 2019

It's weird how the more men appear in this story, the more yuri it feels

45b4e36d555ca184502130f8249354c2--flcl-furi-kuri2
joined Jul 19, 2018

Okay the chapter did end really good but did Isa just forget Shima told her she was gay that one time?

That was my question too. This setup didn’t quite make sense, given what Ise knows about her.

I'm not sure how it is in the jap. script but at least as far as the translation goes, Shima technically never said she "only" loves women. So being bisexual is totally smth in the realm of possibility for her.

I see the point, but I'll admit I'm one of those that read her declaration to Ise as a pretty direct "I'm gay" and her recounting of being irked by her former classmates setting her up with men make me think she's nowhere near bi. Sorry if that sounds bad/weird.

Also, the fact that she seemed to have as much confidence in coming out to Ise like she did, if she was bi I'd see no reason to not declare it as such. I hope that makes sense.

Shima never went on to clarify if she was in fact strictly lesbian or if she was bi after the first time she came out of the closet to Ise. The entire point of contention in this fight was the resultant misunderstanding born of Shima never really opening up to Ize about that part of her life beyond that brief initial confession and Ize never really figuring out the implications on her own.

This is the reason Shima apologized for getting so angry since she never really fully explained her situation to Ise and Ise doesn't really process social interactions the same way others do and thus didn't even really understand why Shima blew up on her this time. On pg 18 its very clearly shown just how little Ize actually understands about what's going on with Shima. She's basically crouched on the floor holding her head much the same way my autistic nephew does while he is overwhelmed. Even while they make up, Ise is kind of apologizing for the wrong reason, or at least she fails to understand all the emotional implications that made Shima so upset.

last edited at Aug 14, 2021 5:03PM

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

Shima never went on to clarify if she was in fact strictly lesbian or if she was bi after the first time she came out of the closet to Ise. The entire point of contention in this fight was the resultant misunderstanding born of Shima never really opening up to Ize about that part of her life beyond that brief initial confession and Ize never really figuring out the implications on her own.

This is simply a restatement of the weirdness. Yes, Shima did not literally say, “I love women to the total exclusion of men,” but the presentation of her coming-out scene strongly suggested just that, and, until this latest chapter, readers had every reason to believe that Ise understood it that way, without any need for further clarification or discussion.

Any number of other manga have contained scenes with some variation of “I fall in love with both men and women/ I thought I was straight until I met so-and-so/ gender doesn’t matter to me, it’s the person I love,” etc., and Shima’s revelation was nothing like that—it was a classic, “I love women, I’ve suffered socially for it, and you must think I’m disgusting and twisted” lesbian coming-out story.

Yes, in the event this chapter does suggest that Ise must have been incredibly dense or oblivious to what Shima told her in Chapter 15, but until now there was absolutely no reason to suspect that was the case.

ParasyticGhoul
Smell_1
joined Dec 5, 2016

I cannot believe I only found out about this.

Tron-legacy
joined Dec 11, 2017

This is simply a restatement of the weirdness. Yes, Shima did not literally say, “I love women to the total exclusion of men,” but the presentation of her coming-out scene strongly suggested just that, and, until this latest chapter, readers had every reason to believe that Ise understood it that way, without any need for further clarification or discussion.

Any number of other manga have contained scenes with some variation of “I fall in love with both men and women/ I thought I was straight until I met so-and-so/ gender doesn’t matter to me, it’s the person I love,” etc., and Shima’s revelation was nothing like that—it was a classic, “I love women, I’ve suffered socially for it, and you must think I’m disgusting and twisted” lesbian coming-out story.

Yes, in the event this chapter does suggest that Ise must have been incredibly dense or oblivious to what Shima told her in Chapter 15, but until now there was absolutely no reason to suspect that was the case.

I think there's a couple things to it. First, Ise knows for sure Shima is into women, but she may not actually know with certainty that she isn't into men, and she might have just wanted to confirm that before shutting him down. I mean, part of bi erasure is the fact that people tend to just assume that if we like the same sex we're gay, and if we like the opposite sex we're straight, but the truth is, if you haven't specified, then you haven't specified, and it could actually be considerate for Ise to entertain that possibility before turning down what might be Shima's great destined lifelong romance.

(I mean, she has not yet realized that she IS Shima's great destined lifelong romance, after all.)

We don't see her thought process, and we don't actually know what she told the guy when he asked. If I was gonna guess, I'd assume it was something like "Ummmm....I'll ask her, I guess."

Secondly, even if Shima is 100% definitely no holds barred supergay ladysexual, it's not like Ise can use that as an excuse to turn him down. She can still turn him down, but if he asks "Why not" she might not have an excuse at the ready, especially when he put her on the spot unexpectedly.

So when she goes to talk to Shima, Ise comes at her with this weird, kind of vague question, because she's trying to get a solid idea of whether Shima is gay or bi, and if it's the latter, what her tastes are, but ultimately, she's just trying to pass the buck on shooting the guy down.

And then of course Shima gets pissed, because that forces her to be the bad guy, and because she's sick of her friends trying to hook her up with guys. (Also probably secretly because she's upset that Ise is fine with her dating somebody else.)

Basically I think Ise is just being conflict avoidant. She wasn't trying to actually set them up, just get out from under an awkward request. (Which, to his credit, he recognized when she finally did turn him down. It was kind of shitty for him to ask Ise instead of just confessing directly to Shima.)

As for whether Shima actually is gay or bi, I think it's not ironclad, but she's probably gay. She didn't give any indication of being into guys when she first came out to Ise, that's true, but also her concern at the time was that Ise would be disgusted to live with someone that is into girls at all. Since the attraction to women is the source of potential conflict there, it'd make sense that she'd focus on that aspect rather than clarifying the full range of her sexual preferences.

(I mean also I'm pretty sure she was more worried about it because she was specifically crushing on Ise herself. But the point stands.)

All the other times she's talked about romance, it's been in general, non-gender specific terms. She -did- say in this episode that her tastes go "regardless of gender", but as Ise noticed, her language was vague enough that she might not have realized Ise was asking about romance. And the fact that she didn't like it when her friends set her up with guys might be because she wasn't interested in any of them and didn't like being put on the spot to have to reject them.

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

^Heavensrun, this is all “inside the characters’ heads” analysis. Mine is a narrative-construction point.

Given what Ise does in this chapter, yes, she must have understood Shima’s previous revelation of her sexuality as being less-than-definitively lesbian-only. But that previous scene gave every indication that Shima was specifying that she was gay, not bi. So this chapter required a retroactive re-writing/re-visioning of that scene and and reconsideration of Ise’s understanding of it on the part of the audience.

last edited at Aug 18, 2021 8:38AM

20210429_051959
joined May 18, 2021

that chapter was very gay, i am very pleased, yes nods

Screenshot%202024-01-18%20181127
joined Jun 21, 2021

Ise: "She really knows how to get my heart racing"

me: OH DOES SHE NOW :eyes emoji:

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