Yuriisthebestest posted:

It fucking end just like that?

It's just end of chapter indicator.

a woman cheating on a man with another woman is satisfying to me

last edited at Dec 9, 2020 2:47PM

Man, the main girl is just immature. Just make up your fucking mind. Stop hurting people.

Lol. Why doesn't she think she's using Chinami? Cause deep down she loves her? Is she living in a fantasy world or something?

She cheats on her husband and has basically officially already mentally checked him out of her life despite still being married to him and leading him on that things are fine, and at the same time continues to rely on her old girlfriend from school as some kind of outlet for her real feelings. She might love her, but so what? What is she doing right now if not using her?

She is literal human garbage. I'm sure the story will invent some reason for people to want to hate the husband. He certainly sounds a bit insensitive right now at times but nothing is bad yet, certainly not the level of human garbage I see people throwing around at him (surprise surprise with this site). And then there's Chinami who is clearly harboring some dark emotions over the whole thing. At the moment I feel bad for both the husband and Chinami. This girl needs to get her shit together.

If you're going to marry a guy (or girl) as camouflage, I don't care if society made you think you had to, you're still hurting someone. If you grow up in a racist household and turn out racist, people will still hold you personally accountable for your actions.

last edited at Dec 9, 2020 3:27PM

@sirflimflam
I think they'll probably do the Netsuzou Trap route and make the husband a bad guy so you won't feel bad about the cheating (maybe even justified if you're goofy) but I still don't think it excuses the cheating, in this scenario it would just mean they're BOTH bad people. Chinami definitely needs to get her life in order. Because she feels her life is being used by other people she somehow justifies using both her husband and the side piece.

I honestly can't see a husband as a complete asshole people seem to call him. He is an average guy living an average life. Chewed down by corporate machine and its pressures, yet not being able to do anything about it, because he have to provide for his stay-at-home wife. Said wife seems to be the only thing giving his life any color and he looks to actually care about her, even if he throws a crass comment here and there. He doesn't seem too keen on having children, but goes along with it, because his wife "wants it" on top of their parents also pushing for it. In that situation, he is probably a bit torn by her not getting pregnant. And now she also comes to him saying she wants to go back to work, undermining one of the pillars of his existence. Rather miserable life, but unless he does something later/we'll see some more of his transgressions from the past, I can't see him as a particularly bad person, or at fault for anything.

last edited at Dec 9, 2020 3:29PM

Couple things I don’t get, why did Chinami suddenly not want to buy the dress? What was with the scene of Chinami in front of the mirror and why did she throw all her clothes on the floor? And what did Yukako mean by she’s not just using her?
Also I’m glad that they didn’t go the route of making Chinami into a vengeful ex, it’s seems she actually does care actually care about Yukako enough where she couldn’t just use her to get revenge, she’s still conflicted and upset by their situation and Yukako’s indecisiveness but not to the point where she’d take it out on Yukako. I say this now, but I still get really uneasy whenever there scenes of her alone or whenever she side eyes Yukako, so who knows...I’m hoping it won’t take that direction but it does seem to be implying something or another

last edited at Dec 9, 2020 3:27PM

Chinami hates herself. Yukako is still in love with her.

They're both pissed off because Japan is still very much an incredibly homophobic place and both are suffering and suffocating under Japanese expectations of normalcy and how the country views LGBTQ+ relationships

I don't find the husband to be a likeable person because he's just as guilty as keeping this marriage up for appearances as Yukako is. Right now we only see that he's in this for the idea of having a family, because having a family is expected at a certain point. Given how their intimate relationship was presented, he also doesn't really seem to be particularly in tune with Yukako's feelings, if he was he might have noticed that something was up, both in their sex life where Yukako doesn't seem particularly interested and in their love life where Yukako's got Chinami on the side. He just seems like poor husband material from how he's presented.

glad1983 posted:

Chewed down by corporate machine and its pressures, yet not being able to do anything about it, because he have to provide for his stay-at-home wife.

And now she also comes to him saying she wants to go back to work, undermining one of the pillars of his existence.

You're contradicting yourself.

he looks to actually care about her, even if he throws a crass comment here and there.

I can't really say someone who thinks you should be happy he even wants to fuck you, really cares that much about you.

He doesn't seem too keen on having children, but goes along with it, because his wife "wants it" on top of their parents also pushing for it. In that situation, he is probably a bit torn by her not getting pregnant. Rather miserable existence

Och, so he has miserable life because he's socially pressured into doing things he doesn't really want to, but does it so people won't complain? A concept completely alien to Yukako, I'm sure. Not like entire society doesn't acknowledge her sexual identity or anything.

Chinami hates herself. Yukako is still in love with her.

They're both pissed off because Japan is still very much an incredibly homophobic place and both are suffering and suffocating under Japanese expectations of normalcy and how the country views LGBTQ+ relationships

I'm not so sure about that. I don't think Chinami hates herself at all, really. I get the impression that Chinami is more angry at Yukako than the world. I think what she hates is Yukako's willingness to bend herself backwards to be "normal" even if it means hurting everyone around her, herself included.

I think deep down Chinami hates that she still has feelings for Yukako even after everything that has transpired. "why do I gotta feel this way over someone who betrayed me?"

If anyone's interested, here's an informative article about modern attitudes towards divorce in Japan. The story's obviously gonna aim for developments that maximize dramatic tension rather than striving to perfectly portray modern-day societal conditions, but all in all, it seems like Japanese society is stuck in this odd, transitional phase where the possibility of divorce is acknowledged, but the stigma still remains. Considering Yukako's tendency to contemplate alternatives without being comfortable enough to take the plunge, I suppose she's thought about it quite a few times, but still been too terrified to ever bring it up or think about how life would be afterward.

On the topic of the husband, it's interesting to see how he tries to assert his masculinity and gain gratification by putting Yukako down, especially in chapter one. The corporate machine simultaneously privileges men and emasculates them- on the one hand, they often become the sole or primary providers in households, but on the other, they're also largely powerless to protest harsh work conditions or argue with bosses (particularly in a culture that values hierarchies and etiquette as much as Japan). The point is that everyone's trapped, and the harder they pretend to be 'normal', the more repressed they become.

On a tangential note, I was curious about the title, and after some digging, the closest link that I've found to it is a famous 1921 short story by Kenji Miyazawa, titled The Nighthawk's Star. It might not be a direct connection, but the part about the nighthawk wondering what its true identity is as it drifts about under the stars definitely strikes me as a parallel to Yukako's condition- she wants to be like a 'normal', conformist woman in a traditional marriage, but only depresses herself by going through the motions. The only freedom and joy she finds are in secretive liaisons, and it remains to be seen whether she'll exhibit the determination and courage to fly through the night and find her own star, or simply fester in secretiveness and guilt. No matter what Chinami does, it ultimately needs to be Yukako's decision- she has to pick a course, commit to it, and move on, or she'll never be fully satisfied, and this guilty, painful affair will continue forever. It might be dangerous or fatal or just plain disappointing, but she'll never know the final outcome until she tries to make things work with Chinami.

a woman cheating on a man with another woman is satisfying to me

I know, right?
I love cheating-themed stories so much. The cheating tag is the best.

a woman cheating on a man with another woman is satisfying to me

I know, right?
I love cheating-themed stories so much. The cheating tag is the best.

Yeah, if you’re reading stories in order to see people caught up in interesting and often stressful situations, “cheating” can be a very good thing.

If you’re looking for implicit role models, for handbooks for proper behavior, or you’re into sitting in moral judgement over imaginary human beings, maybe not so much.

You're contradicting yourself.

Not really. Maybe I worded it poorly. His identity around being a provider is already set. That's why he accepts all the shit he has to deal with at work. Him coming home to his wife is the only thing that makes all the bs feel like it has a meaning. And suddenly she comes out digging into that. "So what is the point of me burning my soul out until now?" That's kinda how I see his reaction to it.

I can't really say someone who thinks you should be happy he even wants to fuck you, really cares that much about you.

Where did he say that? All we've seen is him throwing that remark about her not being all that hot, which kinda fits his character of being "crass but honest", although I think the author pushed it way too far there just to make him more unlikable. It made it unrealistic. He backed out immediately after she seemed affected by it. He's a bit of a dick, but nowhere close to "be happy I'm even fucking you" levels. From his perspective, his wife that pushes him to have children is just being a dead fish in bed. That hurts too. If Yukako acted close to what we see her do now for most of their marriage, it's actually surprising there isn't more build-up resentment there.

Och, so he has miserable life because he's socially pressured into doing things he doesn't really want to, but does it so people won't complain? A concept completely alien to Yukako, I'm sure. Not like entire society doesn't acknowledge her sexual identity or anything.

It's not a zero-sum game. Everyone can be miserable and Yukako feeling pressure doesn't change the fact that he has to deal with different kinds of pressures. Which is what the author may aim for, as it seems to be one of the main points brought up.

I wasn't intending on making a case for him being a "good guy". Just not a bad person or not really hatable.

edit: and, as brought up by Lilification, the whole marriage might just be his own societal trap and all the positive comments might just be him self-justifying his own position. He hates his job, but at least he has a wife to come home to. He has the family that he is sacrificing for. It's not meaningless. I'm glad I proposed etc. It would be similar to him asserting himself in other situations.

last edited at Dec 9, 2020 5:02PM

I agree with the notion that the husband seems very much like an average, mediocre guy who is similarly to Yukako caught up in an endless cycle of never-changing routines. This chapter made him out to be less of a dick than in the first chapter, so I have a hard time seeing him as some sort of big shot bad guy.
That is of course not to say he's likeable in any way, nor are the other characters particularly so either. It seems part of the point of this series so far that no one here are particularly bad nor good, they're all just flawed humans that have ended up taking the 'easy' route through life.

I also didn't really understand the scenes with Chinami's clothing, but I'm guessing it's highlighting how she's torn about a youth love and the current shitty substitute situation or something similar.

The clothes thing. A loose though.

In all her interactions with Yukako post-reunion, she seems to be wearing more masculine clothes (suits, shirts, pants). She rejected the skirt Yukako picked for her and now, after looking at her body in the mirror she is tossing all her feminine clothes. What Yukako said when they broke up seems to have left more long-lasting damage than was shown until now. It might be that she is rejecting her femininity to try to get her back - she wants to become her "man" because otherwise, they have no future. Or something along those lines.

last edited at Dec 9, 2020 6:19PM

a woman cheating on a man with another woman is satisfying to me

I know, right?
I love cheating-themed stories so much. The cheating tag is the best.

Yeah, if you’re reading stories in order to see people caught up in interesting and often stressful situations, “cheating” can be a very good thing.

If you’re looking for implicit role models, for handbooks for proper behavior, or you’re into sitting in moral judgement over imaginary human beings, maybe not so much.

I think it's the most triggering tag on the site

Oh wow. this is good. I read this while I was taking an exam with the camera on and it took me all of my willpower to read it with a straight face. Also -- why is everyone psychoanalyzing this manga? Yuri cheating is great!

This has potential, and I think I'm going to enjoy it... but I wish less cheating stories would portray the party being cheated on as an unrepentant asshole. It feels like they try to justify the affair, and to be honest, that just makes me less interested in the characters. It reduces their autonomy and undercuts the messiness that makes affairs a compelling device in the first place, in my opinion. I saw Shimura Takako mentioned above, and I do think she really nails the premise in Even Though We're Adults. Looking forward to picking up later volumes of that.

That being said, I'm liking Yukako as a character so far. Kirin's talked about her much more eloquently than I ever could, but, well, she's flawed in a pretty real if not completely novel way, almost gives me some Octave vibes, which I can only hope for more of. Will see where this goes. Thanks for the scanlation!

I agree with you at the start. This is bad writing well more like not my taste because I'm not the one to judge, it kinda looks like author wanted makke something a bit different with the cheating but still made a cliche drama manga. Like husband is terrible just because he is a man 'main character is more terrible but now it is justified because husband is bad' troupe is kinda meh. Saying this is like Octave is overly- overrating I think even though it is just a start. I personally didn't like Chinami at all becasue she is not a very good character, just a classic 'bad person because it is realistic'' type of person. However Chinami looks really interestin and it looks like she can the manga really interesting in the future.

last edited at Dec 9, 2020 7:20PM

This has potential, and I think I'm going to enjoy it... but I wish less cheating stories would portray the party being cheated on as an unrepentant asshole. It feels like they try to justify the affair, and to be honest, that just makes me less interested in the characters. It reduces their autonomy and undercuts the messiness that makes affairs a compelling device in the first place, in my opinion. I saw Shimura Takako mentioned above, and I do think she really nails the premise in Even Though We're Adults. Looking forward to picking up later volumes of that.

That being said, I'm liking Yukako as a character so far. Kirin's talked about her much more eloquently than I ever could, but, well, she's flawed in a pretty real if not completely novel way, almost gives me some Octave vibes, which I can only hope for more of. Will see where this goes. Thanks for the scanlation!

I agree with you at the start. This is bad writing well more like not my taste because I'm not the one to judge, it kinda looks like author wanted makke something a bit different with the cheating but still made a cliche drama manga. Like husband is terrible just because he is a man 'main character is more terrible but now it is justified because husband is bad' troupe is kinda meh. Saying this is like Octave is overly- overrating I think even though it is just a start. I personally didn't like Chinami at all becasue she is not a very good character, just a classic 'bad person because it is realistic'' type of person. However Chinami looks really interestin and it looks like she can the manga really interesting in the future.

Oh, don't get me wrong: I don't think this is going to be anywhere near as good as Octave, as you said. Just some slight vibes from the way Yukako's insecurity/indecisiveness is portrayed.

last edited at Dec 9, 2020 7:56PM

Oh wow. this is good. I read this while I was taking an exam with the camera on and it took me all of my willpower to read it with a straight face. Also -- why is everyone psychoanalyzing this manga? Yuri cheating is great!

...but what about the exam? Hope it wasn't too distracting...

I don't get this "you have to get married because mom says it".I guess it is other culture or just fiction to make a manga.

Alexa, play real women kill their husband

The clothes thing. A loose though.

In all her interactions with Yukako post-reunion, she seems to be wearing more masculine clothes (suits, shirts, pants). She rejected the skirt Yukako picked for her and now, after looking at her body in the mirror she is tossing all her feminine clothes. What Yukako said when they broke up seems to have left more long-lasting damage than was shown until now. It might be that she is rejecting her femininity to try to get her back - she wants to become her "man" because otherwise, they have no future. Or something along those lines.

It's too early to analyze Chinami like this but it's not a bad reading of the character's intentions.

I'm curious though if Chinami's genuinely in love with Yukako (the way Yukako is undoubtedly in love with Chinami after all these years) OR she's just in for the satisfaction of an illicit lesbian affair just to hurt Yukako later on.

Cuz I feel like every time Chinami reminisces the past with Yukako in it, it's just bitterness and she seems on the edge/verge of something like a time bomb.

I can't wait for the next chapters.