She appear late, unless she get a girlfriend is better she don´t appear anymore

All I meant is that due to the short time that has passed they haven't really faced anything that would have shaken their relationship before this.

Ah, I see. I thought you were suggesting a different timeline where some of the earlier chapters were subsequent to Igarashi’s return. My mistake.

(Actually, the two-ply vs one-ply toilet-paper disagreement was kind of a tough moment. Lol)

Ah, I see. I thought you were suggesting a different timeline where some of the earlier chapters were subsequent to Igarashi’s return. My mistake.

(Actually, the two-ply vs one-ply toilet-paper disagreement was kind of a tough moment. Lol)

Very true, most relationships do not survive that.

random posted:

Also I was pretty much right thinking Igarashi was serious, but thought idea of 2 girls dating was impossible. Hence her reacting with shock to "revelation" that Chidori and Nanoha are dating despite being 2 girls.

The whole "not as friends" Valentine's choco thing casts big doubt on that, as in the context it's hard to read any meanings but romantic ones into it (without some truly tortuous mental gymnastics anyway); pretty sure by that point she'd already come around to the idea.

I didn't say she didn't love her or wasn't able to act on those feelings. She was, but she also dated guys because it's "the norm" and felt scared of Chidori reciprocate her feelings, because according to society 2 girls don't date each other. She pushed Chidori away because she thought it was impossible by society standards.

I hold that her shock at their bold declaration (and indeed entire behaviour thereafter) was essentially her fast-tracking through a few of the so-called "five stages of grief", notably the denial/bargaining phase as it fully dawned to her just how hopelessly and irrecoverably late she was and any faint hopes she still had regarding Chidori not so much "crashed and burned" as "blew up already on the tarmac". (The way she was more or less telling Nanoha to "be good to her" before leaving would be the acceptance stage - "at least I know she's in good hands" sort of thing.)

That's pretty much what I was getting at. She thought dating Chidori wasn't a option, so despite having feelings for her and acting on them, she didn't think she could date her and was just content with "teasing" or whatever, because she thought that was the best she could hope for. And then when she saw Chidori dating another girl she was like "Wait on a second? I could do that the whole time? Well, shit." So yes, she realized both that she was wrong and that she lost chance to be with Chidori forever at the same time. As I said, it's sad she was too scared to challenge social norms and because of it never dated Chidori, but it doesn't justify her leading on Chidori to just keep rejecting her. Sad backstory doesn't excuse harming others because of your hang-ups. She crossed the line few times, so I get why most people want to see her burn, but I can at least understand why she acted that way and she did say sorry.

I didn't say her feelings weren't true.

Sorry for misreading then. I took the "She wasn't serious" as a statement. @_@

We can agree tho, that Igarashi's action spoke against her intent. Or at least, one should assume that if one likes/loves someone they would refrain from actively hurting them.... well, when they truly love someone, at least. In the most basic sense as "the unselfish loyal and benevolent concern for the good of another".

Yet, after the latest chapter and the insight gained from it, I'd say at least Igarashi, in her own mind, thought her love / affection was true.
She's wrong, by moral standards, of course. Her "love" and actions spoke more in the lines of obsession / possession. But, she was serious enough to still send those chocolates after being freaked out for "straying from the norm".

And from how I see it in this story, she knew what she was doing.

I am not so sure she knew what she was doing. As of now, I believe that she lacks that significant part of empathy; to even realize that Chidori's "heartfelt feelings" could get hurt by her 'teasing, having fun' and straight out crushing Chidori's feelings when confronted about her "nice guy who tells me he loves me" boyfriend.
Not knowing doesn't make it any better, of cos.
Being confused by one's own feelings and cultural/social indoctrination doesn't excuse hurting others over and over again. Especially with no remorse for the pain she caused but only crying when she feels the pain herself. And as said above, especially-especially hurting ones whom one supposedly has deep affections for.
The fact she didn't even consider that Chidori may be so hurt or fed up or strong enough to move on after being treated like this (and reject her for the 2nd/3rd time).... is not excusable. That is, unless next time she shows up she brings along a doctor's note attesting her to be a psychopath.
If not, then yeah, self-centered biatch may have not been aware but she's still a self-centered biatch.
And that last chapter did not make it any better. Tear or no tear. Hmpf.

And that last chapter did not make it any better. Tear or no tear. Hmpf.

I loved the ironic action-at-a-distance rhyming of the very end of the two latest chapters: in Chapter 48, Chidori’s rejection causes Igarashi’s tear; in Chapter 48.5, Chidori’s sleepy expression of love causes Nanoha’s sneeze.

And that Kaede expression at the end . . .

Yeah, Igarashi was not just evil, as some people suggested. She had her circumstances. She was just another useless (closeted) lesbian.

But then, I guess she got what she deserved.

And I hope it keeps hurting for a while, you cunt!

I don't feel bad for her, but, yeah, she's human. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

She thought dating Chidori wasn't a option, so despite having feelings for her and acting on them, she didn't think she could date her and was just content with "teasing" or whatever, because she thought that was the best she could hope for. And then when she saw Chidori dating another girl she was like "Wait on a second? I could do that the whole time? Well, shit."

Quick fact / chronology checking...

Igarashi had a "he tells me he loves me" boyfriend
then met Chidori and thought she's cute
Chidori liked her too
Igarashi remembered that 2 girls was "straying from the norm" and got frightened.
At some she point got confronted by Chidori about the boyfriend
and asked about "what was there between us?"
Igarashi pushes her away (tying into the stray-from-norm thingy).
Chidori avoids her for several months (and casts an eye on Nanoha, only friends though)
Igarashi sends chocolates and note "not just as friends"
but Chidori gives them back and shoots her down.
Chidori and Nanoha happens.
Igarashi returns and tries to meddle with Chidori (suddenly decides calling herself her ex-gf)
The Nanoha appears and proclaims her relationship with Chidori to Igarashi
Igarashi takes off.

...that kinda puts the chocolate event a little too inbetween things - with the chocolates being very much an attempt to rekindle their relationship, pull Chidori back and - as the note said - "not just as friends", and all.

After that Igarashi did nothing to implicate she still thought 2 girls dating was impossible - so I'd say random's argument that Igarashi's reaction wasn't about 2 girls (despite what she said) but grasping the fact she lost the game (or round) against Nanoha, seems valid.
I mean, in the last chapter both the returnage of chocolate as well as girlfriend-nanoha are in focus before she thinks about being "rejected" (of all word-choices) twice. Like, she really tried to relationship... It wasn't entirely out of question anymore.
((She still thought of Chidori as someone to tease (first), have fun and show affection to (second and third...), so... her definition of "not just as friends" relationship is still rather twisted. Maybe she never intented a loud and proud 2-girls-in-love relationship... but then, I wonder why she even threw the "ex-girlfriend" out there...))

last edited at Sep 27, 2019 4:53PM

What the fuck sempai

That is what you get for being a bitch.

^ @KueKyuuQ

I believe I said some time ago that the chocolates were kind of a problem for any reading of Igarashi (if sincere, she’s OK with a g-g relationship, which is not borne out by her subsequent actions; if not sincere, she’s just being manipulative and malicious). And you’re right that the “ex-gf” claim is of a piece with the chocolates.

At this point I’m not sure if we’ve actually gotten much more information about her than we had before. She thinks of her own feelings as sincere, but as others have been saying, that doesn’t do much to rehabilitate her actions.

last edited at Sep 27, 2019 5:44PM

I don't fell bad for her too.

Too coward.

well I understand where shes coming from, afraid of coming out. But the way she pushed away chidori was not the answer.

Well shit happens when you get scared...and then you regret twice as much. feels bad man

Well, goddamn that sucks
Talk about being twice damned

It does in fact, suck to suck

Feels bad when cute girls cry :'(

However, it turns out that's what happens when the person you love asks what there was between you two, and you say "Nothing, we're both girls lolol"

Make choice
Suffer consequence

Well what the fuck did she expected?

last edited at Sep 27, 2019 9:02PM

Quick fact / chronology checking...

Igarashi had a "he tells me he loves me" boyfriend
then met Chidori and thought she's cute
Chidori liked her too

No. She only started dating the guy after she told Chidori she loved her. It was her way of putting distance between them. That's the meaning of the "I did nothing wrong" line.

((She still thought of Chidori as someone to tease (first), have fun and show affection to (second and third...), so... her definition of "not just as friends" relationship is still rather twisted. Maybe she never intented a loud and proud 2-girls-in-love relationship... but then, I wonder why she even threw the "ex-girlfriend" out there...))

As the translator, I want to tell you that you really, really shouldn't read so much into the specific wording of a translation. Maybe some kind of genius could recreate the original with such fidelity as to justify that kind of word-by-word analysis, but I certainly can't, at least not consistently (by the way, in the original it goes "tease", "tease(affectionately)", then "have fun").

In any case, all three verbs here are kind of ambiguous. Just the "tease" could mean anything from playing a prank on someone to hitting on them. But that's not really important, because that line doesn't tell us Igarashi's true feelings. The context tells us what she really meant. Look at her reaction on the next page: she was seriously trying to ask Chidori out.

She met Chidori, developed a crush on her, told her she loved her, then started dating her childhood friend and ignoring Chidori out of fear when Chidori reciprocated her feelings. Chidori confronted her, and she responded with "But we're both girls". Months later, right before Igarashi graduated, she changed her mind/realized her mistake and sent Chidori chocolates to try to rekindle their relationship. Chidori rejected her. Now she came back to school to try a second time.

It's not explicitly stated, but I think we can assume that the boyfriend is out of the picture, and probably has been since before Valentine's Day. Otherwise, Igarashi wouldn't have been sitting around in a classroom waiting for her kouhai to respond, she'd be on a date.

last edited at Sep 27, 2019 9:28PM

Quick fact / chronology checking...

Igarashi had a "he tells me he loves me" boyfriend
then met Chidori and thought she's cute
Chidori liked her too

No. She only started dating the guy after she told Chidori she loved her. It was her way of putting distance between them. That's the meaning of the "I did nothing wrong" line.

Then why in Chapter 44 is Chidori told that Igarashi had been friends with the boy “since they were young” and that they had been dating “for a while”?

That doesn’t sound at all like something that’s started suddenly or very recently.

Then why in Chapter 44 is Chidori told that Igarashi had been friends with the boy “since they were young” and that they had been dating “for a while”?

That doesn’t sound at all like something that’s started suddenly or very recently.

They say she'd been friends with him since they were young because she'd been friends with him since they were young. As in osananajimi. That doesn't imply anything about how long they'd been dating. And "a while" means the same thing as it does in English. In common usage, it can mean anything from a few minutes to a few weeks.

I tend to think that she'd only recently started dating him because that's the first time Chidori sees her meet him at the gates, and the first time anyone mentions him. It's possible she was dating him before but hiding it better, and started flaunting her boyfriend to put distance between herself and Chidori. Either way, I don't really think it matters when analyzing her character.

last edited at Sep 27, 2019 9:58PM

Everybody is saying that Igarashi is a b**** for playing with her kohai, crushing her heart, and then asking her to be more than 'just friends' whatever that means.And that being scared of 'social norms' isn't an excuse to hurt someone.
But what I see here is that IF she accepted Chidori's feelings while having a boyfriend is worse or breaking up with her bf having a 'relationship' out of 'curiosity' is even more worst. I think she CAN'T accept Chidori's feeling wholeheartedly without 'social norm' and her fears restraining her, that's why when she understood how dense she was and how much she lead Chidori on she choose to break her heart rather than keep her hoping.
FOR HER MAYBE, she didn't she how she was leading Chidori far away for her precious "social norms" and when she realize she wasn't ready to break 'social norms' for her or she wasn't reflective as much that's why when she was ask 'what were they' she responded what 'she knew what's right according to social norms' after some reflecting MAYBE she broke up with her bf before sending chocolate to Chidori hoping that she would be not too late but she was, when she reach college and visited Chidori under the statement of 'messing with her' she wanted to know if she made the right decision not to chase her after the '1st' rejection . (I mean to be fair they didn't told us how Chidori rejected her it could either she told her she had a gf or that she lost her feelings for Igarashi or that she no longer have any desire to have a relationship with her).
Well one thing for sure she's a useless closet lesbian that lost her chance cause 1.She was denying her feelings too much asin she was Deceiving herself 2.she's too scared to acknowledge Chidori's love 3.She have a damn bf and apparently having a long term relationship with a 'nice guy' is is much nicer than having a forbidden (according to social norms) with a kohai you met a couple of months 4.she was too much of an idiot too not think that someone might snag her away from her after bluntly rejecting her and still gave her chocolate somehow thinking that she will still have feelings for her.
Well it's just my opinion no need for debates

Then why in Chapter 44 is Chidori told that Igarashi had been friends with the boy “since they were young” and that they had been dating “for a while”?

That doesn’t sound at all like something that’s started suddenly or very recently.

They say she'd been friends with him since they were young because she'd been friends with him since they were young. As in osananajimi. That doesn't imply anything about how long they'd been dating. And "a while" means the same thing as it does in English. In common usage, it can mean anything from a few minutes to a few weeks.

Sorry, this is non-responsive—“They’ve known each other since they were young; they’ve been dating for a while” does not ever mean in English “they started dating very recently.” The entire thrust of the phrasing implies that this is a connection of fairly long standing.

There’s no real reason that any of the literature club would have previously mentioned Igarashi’s boyfriend to Chidori or that Chidori would have seen the two of them meeting before—this is a girls’ school, and the topic only comes up because the group happens to see the two of them out the window.

You may be right that the difference doesn’t radically alter our understanding of Igarashi’s behavior, but the text seems pretty clear about the sequence of events from Igarashi’s POV: she dated the boy because it was “normal,” then her feelings for Chidori created her “fear of straying from the norm,” so she pushed her away.