Forum › Hana Ni Arashi discussion
It’s certainly possible, as we have seen, to explain that as something other than pure selfishness, callousness or malice-
And insisting on explaining it solely as those strikes me as downright boorish knee-jerk demonization. I'm trying to give the author more credit than spending this much effort writing a mere cardboard villain you know...
“Boorish.” OK, bye.
Igarashi is a good person who made the mistake
To be fair, there is too little info about her to claim that she is not a good person or vice versa. I think, Heavensrun gave a really good insight about her character and this is all what we have. She could be troubled and mistaken young gay girl. She was wrong and I hope that she understand that, lol. It doesn’t make her a bitch to the end of her days.
last edited at Aug 30, 2019 11:51AM
It doesn’t make her a bitch to the end of her days.
No but at this end of this arc yes.She know she had a BF but still act flirty toward Chidori and end up hurting her because shedoesn't bring up the BF.
It doesn’t make her a bitch to the end of her days.
No but at this end of this arc yes.She know she had a BF but still act flirty toward Chidori and end up hurting her because shedoesn't bring up the BF.
Clueless teenagers fucking up their relationships is novel and unusual how exactly?
It doesn’t make her a bitch to the end of her days.
No but at this end of this arc yes.She know she had a BF but still act flirty toward Chidori and end up hurting her because she doesn't bring up the BF.
Clueless teenagers fucking up their relationships is novel and unusual how exactly?
I don't exactly see the point ? I didn't said it was unusal but that doesn't mean i must pity her. I don't think it was hard for Igarashi to said she had a BF to Chidori and coming month later claming she is Chidori's ex to one of her friend as a joke but like Nanoha said "Nobody is laughing" and the only excuse of Igarashi is "You were alone so i was just nice", this can be interpreted as "It was your own fault to believe i was into you".
In the end, yes Igarashi was sexually troubled if she love girls or boys but that doesn't change the fact she had hurt deeply Chidori and nearly make her refuse love fromanyone.
lack of [...] regard for the feelings of the person she supposedly cares about.
To me, that's the main reason why I dislike Igarashi.
Troubled personality or not, even while she's refusing to admit her feelings to herself or to accept them for whatever strong reasons, it's made very clear that Igarashi cares for Chidori and even claims as much. https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/hana_ni_arashi_ch43#7
Yet, she pushed her away and waited several months(!) after shooting Chidori down before trying to make up (with the chocolate). Since the note ("not just as friends") makes it clear she didn't wait that long to give Chidori some space to cool off and rekindle as friends... she still wants "something" more. Well, there's a huge gap here, both narrative and credibilty wise, but either way that doesn't sit right, in regards to treating someone one supposedly cares for.
I guess, we are trying to explain Igarashi - explain, not excuse her!
Because - at least for me - there seems to be a whole character hiding between the panels. One with at least as much depth as our protagonists!
To me the top panel here still stands out: https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/hana_ni_arashi_ch44#3
Right after being confronted about the boyfriend, there's that one panel with Igarashi. Her features are hard to read, her mouth is slighting agape (personally I find this to be an expression of resignation, I can almost hear her breathe out after hitting a crossroad and making a choice).
But notable is the background.
A diagonal tilt in fliming is often used to portray psychological uneasiness or tension in the subject being filmed. In (still) art diagonals are often used to reflect something unbalanced and also produces tension. In anime a diagonal flash is often used to present a decisive, crucial blow. In manga and anime an abstract background [like this] is often used to illustrate a character's state of mind, generally emphazising the character's feelings. Generally here strong visual contrasts tend to reflect internal contrasts or oppositions.
Make what you will of it. But I would think that this panel - not what she says afterwards - is Igarashi's [internal] point of no return...
Still, I don't think her behaviour needs justification or excuses. But explanations would be appreciated. And in absence of that... we discuss. As we do. :P
last edited at Aug 30, 2019 4:06PM
As a character, Igarashi is interesting. As a person she is toxic. If this type of person launches into someone who is not strong, or doesn't have a support system, they can do so much damage. And this is willingly. She knows well what she is doing. Because people like this dont have the guts to make a move, they get a sense of fulfillment just by knowing their target hasn't moved on from them. Oftentimes, this is what hides behind the hot and cold treatment. Some bread crumbs just so the person doesn't move on. That Valentine's card was that. She wouldn't have sent it if she was more confident about Chidori's feelings for her. And if Chidori reciprocated, the push phase would begin again.
Chidori had a good friend support system and was confident enough to stop. But if it was a damaged person instead, they would get strung along and become more desperate and needy with time.
As a character, Igarashi is interesting. As a person she is toxic. If this type of person launches into someone who is not strong, or doesn't have a support system, they can do so much damage. And this is willingly. She knows well what she is doing. Because people like this dont have the guts to make a move, they get a sense of fulfillment just by knowing their target hasn't moved on from them. Oftentimes, this is what hides behind the hot and cold treatment. Some bread crumbs just so the person doesn't move on. That Valentine's card was that. She wouldn't have sent it if she was more confident about Chidori's feelings for her. And if Chidori reciprocated, the push phase would begin again.
Chidori had a good friend support system and was confident enough to stop. But if it was a damaged person instead, they would get strung along and become more desperate and needy with time.
You're assuming way too much, though. I agree with you that there are people like that, I don't think there's enough to say that that's Igarashi. We didn't get enough of a picture to see if there's a repeat pattern of push and pull. What we saw could match that, but it's also perfectly consistent with a closeted gay girl in a resigned het relationship falling in love for the first time and not knowing how to process it.
They're children. It's too early to start labeling anybody "toxic".
My read on Igarashi is she only realised Chidori was serious about their relationship (and not just "playing at love" as Morishima-sensei memorably put it) during the break-up confrontation, and the depth of her own actual emotional investement in it only later still - whence the belated too-little too-late olive branches.
So I’m wondering:
What’s the worst thing anybody has done to anybody else in this series excluding Igarashi?
What’s the worst thing anybody has done to anybody else including Igarashi?
What’s the worst thing anybody has done to anybody else in this series excluding Igarashi?
Nanoha unintentionally kicking Chidori under the table
What’s the worst thing anybody has done to anybody else including Igarashi?
Make a mess of Chidori's feelings because of self insecurity.
Now, how would each of you fit Igarashi dropping the "ex-girlfriend" bomb onto Nanoha into your theories?
Please take into consideration that there was hardly any reason for Igarashi to view Nanoha as a rival/competition (be it romantically or just for Chidori's overall attention) unless she's REALLY sensitive, how she deliberately and in a collected manner "introduced" herself that way and her later (unfiltered) "but you're both girls?" remark while still in some state of utter shock after Nanoha made her own declaration.
Because I... well, I mean, that really doesn't look good.
a) she's closet-gay, but then why say something like that to a complete stranger? only to refute it?
b) she realized her feelings too late / by now, is serious about them so tried to make a stand, but then why be so utterly shocked about the concept of two girls dating in the latest chapter?
c) can't quite process her own emotions... and just acts out in instinctive jealousy and is unaware that she's repeatedly causing hurt and confusion to the person she supposedly adores (no instinct at all at work there?)
d) she believes she has some sort of claim over Chidori, but doesn't want to commit to it herself (because the concept is against her rational beliefs), and acts out on anyone who may even remotely be a potential rival in that regard, attempting to alientate Chidori from them, so her attention remains undivided.
Edit: this was a response to MacySan, Heavensrun & random. (I took too long to post this.)
last edited at Aug 30, 2019 9:28PM
Judging by the comments here:
What’s the worst thing anybody has done to anybody else in this series excluding Igarashi?
The author: Bashing us over the head with the girls being in a secret relationship.
What’s the worst thing anybody has done to anybody else including Igarashi?
The author: Introducing Igarashi.
last edited at Aug 30, 2019 9:48PM
My best guess is that was simply a means of feeling out Nanoha's relationship with Chidori in a manner she could readily BS off as an off-colour joke - and going by that rather satisfied-looking smirk she made at Nano's startled reaction whatever hunch made her do it in the first place was amply confirmed.
It's probably telling that when she comes see Chidori again the next day she essentially starts probing for her side of the relationship right out of the gate, which seems somewhat atypical behaviour (Igarashi appears to be one of those people who prefer to talk 'round the actual topic and only come to the point after circling "like cat a bowl of hot porridge", to butcher an old proverb, for a while). She's also rather conspicuously refraining from the affectionate body language she originally used with Chidori both from first meeting way back when and the previous day before the meddling kidsNanoha & potential new club recruits barged in (may be her default behaviour with other girls, but hard to tell given the nonexistent sample size we have of her interactions with ladies not called Chidori) and instead almost seems to make a point of staying at an arm's length.
If I were to make a guess she put whatever plans she had on hold until she could get a better idea of Chidori's specific relationship situation; would imagine the last thing she wanted to do was repeating her previous fatal error of blundering into ill-advised decisions without a full grasp of the context and what the Hell she's actually doing.
So what was the point again of having her senpai coming out of nowhere?
So what was the point again of having her senpai coming out of nowhere?
Find out next time on Dragon Ball Z.
So what was the point again of having her senpai coming out of nowhere?
To further unfold Chidori's backstory and give Nanoha a chance to shine?
My best guess is that was simply a means of feeling out Nanoha's relationship with Chidori in a manner she could readily BS off as an off-colour joke - and going by that rather satisfied-looking smirk she made at Nano's startled reaction whatever hunch made her do it in the first place was amply confirmed.
It's probably telling that when she comes see Chidori again the next day she essentially starts probing for her side of the relationship right out of the gate, which seems somewhat atypical behaviour (Igarashi appears to be one of those people who prefer to talk 'round the actual topic and only come to the point after circling "like cat a bowl of hot porridge", to butcher an old proverb, for a while). She's also rather conspicuously refraining from the affectionate body language she originally used with Chidori both from first meeting way back when and the previous day before
the meddling kidsNanoha & potential new club recruits barged in (may be her default behaviour with other girls, but hard to tell given the nonexistent sample size we have of her interactions with ladies not called Chidori) and instead almost seems to make a point of staying at an arm's length.
If I were to make a guess she put whatever plans she had on hold until she could get a better idea of Chidori's specific relationship situation; would imagine the last thing she wanted to do was repeating her previous fatal error of blundering into ill-advised decisions without a full grasp of the context and what the Hell she's actually doing.
That pretty well sums up why I think she did it.
Also, I don't think her shock at the end is disbelief or even surprise that two girls can have a relationship. I think it's surprise that -these- two girls have a relationship. Basically she's processing the fact that Chidori and Nanoha have actually made it work, and that she's missed her shot. Remember my read is that she wants to win Chidori back, and while she suspects something is up with Nanoha, she's still -HOPING- it's just a crush, or one-sided, or ambiguous. When Chidori confirms it's a serious, actual romantic relationship, she gives up, apologizes for causing trouble, and gives one last little lie to gloss over any potential drama and seems to leave pretty gracefully.
I can see where the hostility comes from: She fits a lot of the user-sempai tropes that you see so often in these stories. But she doesn't have that predatory edge, and she just looks sad so much of the time, she feels to me more like someone that knows she messed up and wants to take it back rather than someone who doesn't care about anything but her own gratification.
Yeah, shut up, Chidori! Can't you see that Nanoha is putting senpai in her place? Just look and learn how to treat your shitenpai properly.
Yeah, shut up, Chidori! Can't you see that Nanoha is putting senpai in her place? Just look and learn how to treat your shitenpai properly.
Nano actually looks quite wrong-footed by the turn the encounter took. She clearly arrived filled with DETERMINATION andready for a showdown if need be and doesn't really seem to know how to react when the other party instead kind of just... deflates, apologises and leaves.
Whatever she was expecting and mentally prepared for clearly wasn't that.
On another note the result would most likely have been essentially the same without her appearance anyway, only with less poleaxed expressions on Igarashi's part...
Nano actually looks quite wrong-footed by the turn the encounter took. She clearly arrived
filled with DETERMINATION andready for a showdown if need be and doesn't really seem to know how to react when the other party instead kind of just... deflates, apologises and leaves.Whatever she was expecting and mentally prepared for clearly wasn't that.
Sometimes the person you're really angry at simply won't do you the common courtesy of fighting back, and then you're stuck yelling at someone for no reason and looking like an asshole.
So what was the point again of having her senpai coming out of nowhere?
To further unfold Chidori's backstory and give Nanoha a chance to shine?
Also, the senpai didn't come out of nowhere. Gotta pay attention to the details. Tsk, tsk.
I love the detail that Chidori is standing on a box but still has to reach on her toes to kiss Nanoha.
Cute cute CUTE!
I demand a "FUCKING FINALLY" tag right now!
And dear Lord! They are still getting cockblocked by everyone and everuthing!
But, finally! Now, we just need to wait the same to happen in Ouji-sama Nante Iranai........... Might take a while.....
last edited at Sep 13, 2019 10:16AM