I thought the argument was 'you are being too reductionist: Kasumi and Sakurako are too detailed of characters to simplify as "you are supposed to pretend to be Sakurako, and fantasize about being in a relationship Kasumi"'. Sakurako has traits most people don't have, making her a difficult reader insert character (I think she's meant to be sympathetic rather than empathetic). Kasumi has a lot of very human traits, so if you just ignored her looks (which I guess is very hard to do) she would be easy to relate to.

I arrived at preferring Sakurako after a simple thought experiment. Trophy wives are supposed to be shown off. So I imagined what it would be like to have Kasumi escort a business man to a fancy dinner. I won't relate the details, but the guy was unhappy with the results. I did the same with Sakurako, and while she didn't wow them with her looks, she did a hell of a lot better. And I noticed Sakurako has most of the features I like in a partner.

Okay, I WAS okay with this whole argument, but y'all ruined it. Way too personal, way too much ridiculous personal agendas.

White Rose and BugDevil, the argument is done. Nobody won.

Everybody else pretend this never happened. You and I will both be happier that way.

Don't make me have to start deleting shit, thanks.

Hello there, just read the first 3 chapters, and I'm wondering if this ever goes anywhere ? Most slice of life suffer from no character development (or any development at all really) AFAIK, so is this one any better ?

Hello there, just read the first 3 chapters, and I'm wondering if this ever goes anywhere ? Most slice of life suffer from no character development (or any development at all really) AFAIK, so is this one any better ?

Opinions differ as to what constitutes “progress” or “development.”

I think it’s an excellent series, so my advice is to read it and decide for yourself.

Hello there, just read the first 3 chapters, and I'm wondering if this ever goes anywhere ? Most slice of life suffer from no character development (or any development at all really) AFAIK, so is this one any better ?

You tell us something first: do you want to be spoiled or not?

If you don't want spoilers, then let's just put it this way: yes, there is development, as time flows in the story at the same pace as in the real world. (A Room For Two started in 2014; we are now in 2019... and exactly 5 years have gone by in the manga universe.)

If you do want spoilers... why, sure! Just say the word!

I don't recall which movie it is from, though. (Lorelei Lee? What kinda name is that? Half German Aryan, half Southern Confederate?)

Gentlemen Prefer Blondes with Marilyn Monroe and Jane Russell, one of the most objectionable movies ever made. God only knows how it went through the Hays Code censorship. Monroe plays Lorelei Lee, a gold-digger. Russell plays Dorothy Shaw, a nympho. Lorelei dates guys for money and presents, and plans to marry a millionaire heir for his daddy's moolah. Dorothy likes hunky musclemen, and the more the better; at one point in the movie, she tries to seduce the whole American Olympic team. No terrible calamity ever befalls any of them, they are never punished by heavenly lightning, and in the end they both get married to their chosen ones and live happily forever.

Monroe plays Lorelei Lee, a gold-digger. Russell plays Dorothy Shaw, a nympho.

Now that's too much. She's not that bad.

Monroe plays Lorelei Lee, a gold-digger. Russell plays Dorothy Shaw, a nympho.

Now that's too much. She's not that bad.

Which one of them?

Monroe plays Lorelei Lee, a gold-digger. Russell plays Dorothy Shaw, a nympho.

Now that's too much. She's not that bad.

Which one of them?

Dorothy, she ain't that bad... I mean, if memory doesn't fail me, she doesn't sleep with anyone except that detective guy - who marries her in the end.

Lol, in these movies from the 50s it's difficult to say who sleeps with who... even Dorothy, in her big romantic scene with the leading bloke, goes no further than a kiss; at which point the scene ends, and we move to next morning. Like, we can't say for sure if they slept together that night or not.

But we do know a few things about Dorothy's past from Lorelei, who said Dorothy is always running from one musclebound stud to another. And that musical number in the Olympic team's gym... WOW. Dorothy goes into the gym (where all the male athletes in the american Olympic team are doing their training, most of them in shorts and bare-chested, showing up their sculpted muscular physiques) and basically asks the lot of them if someone, anyone, wants to fuck? Because, as for her, she's ready and raring to go!

I'm not trying to slut-shame her or anything; on the contrary: I'm all for sexual freedom! All I'm saying, doctor, is that I think that we can accurately diagnose a touch of nymphomania in her case.

Aight thanks for the input, I might read it later.

Take film night over to the Dynasty Cafe thread, please.

I hope I'm not stepping on forbidden ground, but was anyone else a little ticked off that Kasumi allowed Sakurako to follow her to the same college?

I hope I'm not stepping on forbidden ground, but was anyone else a little ticked off that Kasumi allowed Sakurako to follow her to the same college?

Not in the least. The two of them want to be together. Why would anyone be ticked off?

Well, Sakurako could have gone to any college, so this is just my own fantasy, but I imagine Sakurako as pre-law -> law -> judge -> politician in her life. Or pre-med -> med -> surgeon -> world class surgeon. So, following Kasumi in college feels like her having her wings clipped. Granted she could still become a minister's aid or the what I fancy, a diplomatic attache, as a social psychologist, but it still feels like wasted potential. And it isn't like they had to go to the same college to live together.

To sum it up, it feels like Kasumi allowed Sakurako to under-perform in college by letting her follow.

last edited at May 25, 2019 10:07PM

rgv posted:

Well, Sakurako could have gone to any college, so this is just my own fantasy, but I imagine Sakurako as pre-law -> law -> judge -> politician in her life. Or pre-med -> med -> surgeon -> world class surgeon. So, following Kasumi in college feels like her having her wings clipped. Granted she could still become a minister's aid or the what I fancy, a diplomatic attache, as a social psychologist, but it still feels like wasted potential. And it isn't like they had to go to the same college to live together.

To sum it up, it feels like Kasumi allowed Sakurako to under-perform in college by letting her follow.

She could not be interested in any of those though. Just because you have potential there, it doesn't mean that's the field you yourself want to go into. She might be as well perfectly content and happy with the way things are.

last edited at May 25, 2019 10:11PM

rgv posted:

Well, Sakurako could have gone to any college, so this is just my own fantasy, but I imagine Sakurako as pre-law -> law -> judge -> politician in her life. Or pre-med -> med -> surgeon -> world class surgeon. So, following Kasumi in college feels like her having her wings clipped. Granted she could still become a minister's aid or the what I fancy, a diplomatic attache, as a social psychologist, but it still feels like wasted potential. And it isn't like they had to go to the same college to live together.

To sum it up, it feels like Kasumi allowed Sakurako to under-perform in college by letting her follow.

She could not be interested in any of those though. Just because you have potential there, it doesn't mean that's the field you yourself want to go into. She might be as well perfectly content and happy with the way things are.

This is just a lesser argument, but Kasumi was wise enough to hide her major from Sakurako so she'd pick her own, so a part of me thinks she should have taken it just a little further.

I don't really see the issue here. If Sakurako wants to advance up the ladder she can still easily do it. Nothing stops her from studying more and getting degrees and who knows what else. Your college choice doesn't force you onto a unavoidable path.

The important thing is that Sakurako can get more successful if she wants, but she clearly doesn't care. Sending her to another college would have done nothing except make her feel torn apart from Kasumi and that just kills her drive even more.

When Kasumi kept her major a secret, it was so Sakurako would at least choose her main interest herself and that she did. Studying psychology is also something she only got interested in because of Kasumi in the first place. Saku can shine anywhere as long as Kasumi is around. And Kasumi also benefitted from Saku being at the same Uni (making friends, joining a club etc.)

I hope I'm not stepping on forbidden ground, but was anyone else a little ticked off that Kasumi allowed Sakurako to follow her to the same college?

It was Kasumi's idea in the first place. Even Sakurako was surprised.

Well, Sakurako could have gone to any college, so this is just my own fantasy, but I imagine Sakurako as pre-law -> law -> judge -> politician in her life. Or pre-med -> med -> surgeon -> world class surgeon. So, following Kasumi in college feels like her having her wings clipped.

Sakurako isn't especially smart, she has near photographic memory which is not the same

She also hasn't any drive to success in arts or sports or science, or any hunger for power and riches.. the only things 'not about Kasumi' she likes to do are cooking and housework which she already did for family and siblings
Getting a whatever degree at something social-cultural (not math or science because that's hard brainwork) and then a job as a full time cram school teacher seems ok for her

last edited at May 26, 2019 2:24PM

Getting a whatever degree at something humanities related (not math or science because that's hard brainwork) and then a job as a full time cram school teacher seems ok for her

Wow. Just shitting all over people with psych degrees, huh?

Getting a whatever degree at something humanities related (not math or science because that's hard brainwork) and then a job as a full time cram school teacher seems ok for her

Wow. Just shitting all over people with psych degrees, huh?

Wanna bet they're a "hard" sciences/engineering student?

Getting a whatever degree at something humanities related (not math or science because that's hard brainwork) and then a job as a full time cram school teacher seems ok for her

Wow. Just shitting all over people with psych degrees, huh?

Wanna bet they're a "hard" sciences/engineering student?

I personally make jokes about psych students all the time, but saying you need no brain power to memorize and understand all that nonsense is a bit much.

Sakurako isn't especially smart, she has near photographic memory which is not the same

Getting a whatever degree at something social-cultural (not math or science because that's hard brainwork) and then a job as a full time cram school teacher seems ok for her

This is one of the stupidest statements I’ve ever heard.

I love this manga, very fluff and cute, and I like the transition in their behavior towards each other