So, not a whole lot of new information:

• Hasebe has it bad for Ooba, which is why she’s been so nasty to Indou.
• That looked like a coven of thirsty lesbians giving out sweets in the woods, and Indou seems to have become the #1 Lesbian Collector’s Item.

• I guess Kagami sitting Indou down for a tutorial on what a “tsundere” is wouldn’t really be in keeping with the tsundere code, huh?

  Still up in the air:

• What exactly is a “maiden,” and why is Kagami so adamant that it’s different from her raging lesbian thirst?

• What exactly was the deal between Kagami and Indou’s mom?

• How does this school manage to balance the curriculum between bayonets and cupcakes?

A little late but it's okey, I read it in spanish..

Finally!! Please don't leave us hanging again for long, love this manga

Oh yeah yeah

Don’t forget that you need to grind out on brawl stars.

Poor Miharu??? lmao

"Maiden" doesn't convey the connotations of 稚児 (chigo) at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_Japan#Military_same-sex_love

"Maiden" doesn't convey the connotations of 稚児 (chigo) at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_Japan#Military_same-sex_love

Once again, the inherent contradiction of “female officer candidate” + “Japanese military of the early 20th C.” equals “no appropriate real-world analogy.”

Blastaar posted:

"Maiden" doesn't convey the connotations of 稚児 (chigo) at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_Japan#Military_same-sex_love

Once again, the inherent contradiction of “female officer candidate” + “Japanese military of the early 20th C.” equals “no appropriate real-world analogy.”

Well in this case it is rather issue of english not having a right word, cos mangaka have no issue using term exclusive for males here, only issue is there is no equivalent term for it in english.

Blastaar posted:

"Maiden" doesn't convey the connotations of 稚児 (chigo) at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_Japan#Military_same-sex_love

Once again, the inherent contradiction of “female officer candidate” + “Japanese military of the early 20th C.” equals “no appropriate real-world analogy.”

Well in this case it is rather issue of english not having a right word, cos mangaka have no issue using term exclusive for males here, only issue is there is no equivalent term for it in english.

Well, and no historically relevant Japanese term, either—the modern military depicted in the series is a far cry from the samurai system.

Blastaar posted:

Blastaar posted:

"Maiden" doesn't convey the connotations of 稚児 (chigo) at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_Japan#Military_same-sex_love

Once again, the inherent contradiction of “female officer candidate” + “Japanese military of the early 20th C.” equals “no appropriate real-world analogy.”

Well in this case it is rather issue of english not having a right word, cos mangaka have no issue using term exclusive for males here, only issue is there is no equivalent term for it in english.

Well, and no historically relevant Japanese term, either—the modern military depicted in the series is a far cry from the samurai system.

Well there is one. Chigo. And mangaka just used it with same implication, they just gender swapped it. But we can't do the same in english, because there is no equivalent to word chigo in the first place, male or female. So the whole "no historically accurate" argument is irrelevant here.

The mangaka chose to use 稚児. It's valid to take the same approach to translating it as someone would if translating a man's autobiography were the term was used.

The mangaka chose to use 稚児. It's valid to take the same approach to translating it as someone would if translating a man's autobiography were the term was used.

So what would that translated term be?

Based on this, I think Kagami doesn't have her feelings yet sorted for Indou. C'mon Kagami, be more honest with yourself!

Oh, I think she's honest enough with herself, just not with Indou. She simply seems to want a real relationship free of the implications of the Maiden system.

Based on this, I think Kagami doesn't have her feelings yet sorted for Indou. C'mon Kagami, be more honest with yourself!

Oh, I think she's honest enough with herself, just not with Indou. She simply seems to want a real relationship free of the implications of the Maiden system.

And that Maiden System is still a bit blurry to me. The “chigo” discussion helped a little (and sorry if I was misunderstanding the implications of the word), but it’s still not clear if it’s a “senior’s pet + kissing” thing, or something more sexual, or what, exactly.

The closest thing in English, which isn’t all that close (and has a totally unusable word for translation to boot) is the British public (i.e., private) school system called, ahem, “fagging.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagging

However, that seems more like a systematized senpai-kouhai group thing than a one-on-one bonding/favorites pairing.

Actually, in English the closest term probably would be when someone is defined as being an older student’s “boy” (or “bitch-boy”), either version of which would obviously not be appropriate here. So “maiden” is likely as good as anything else.

I'd go ahead and use "chigo", but if a translator really wanted something that could be found in English dictionaries, there's "catamite".

I'd go ahead and use "chigo", but if a translator really wanted something that could be found in English dictionaries, there's "catamite".

A great vocabulary word, but it’s male gender-specific (which is what I was getting at with my “Japanese+female+officer does not compute” line of argument) and also denotes only a sexual relationship rather than “mentor-mentee with benefits” situation, as we seem to have here.

I’m hoping that fairly soon someone settles the matter by just explaining to Indou what being a “maiden” specifically entails in this context.

Based on this, I think Kagami doesn't have her feelings yet sorted for Indou. C'mon Kagami, be more honest with yourself!

Oh, I think she's honest enough with herself, just not with Indou. She simply seems to want a real relationship free of the implications of the Maiden system.

And that Maiden System is still a bit blurry to me. The “chigo” discussion helped a little (and sorry if I was misunderstanding the implications of the word), but it’s still not clear if it’s a “senior’s pet + kissing” thing, or something more sexual, or what, exactly.

Blurry it is, yes. Based on the discussion, it's likely a similar meaning to the original samurai use, but without an actual in-series explanation it's difficult to tell. Still, Kagami has made it rather clear from the start that she does not like the Maiden system and does not want one, while also wanting to protect Indou from becoming one. Any feelings she has for Indou that have led to kissing her, she has developed without regard for this, which is also causing these problems in their relationship - as Indou is even more lost than we regarding what Maidens are supposed to be, she is taking Kagami's denial of her Maiden status as denying their relationship as a whole, while Kagami herself seems afraid of taking things further, thinking it would be seen as a confirmation of her seeing Indou as "just a Maiden".

^ That's a good point about Indou being even more in the dark about "maidenhood" than we are, and maybe suggests why its status keeps nagging me (more than it should for its role in the story, I think).

In many schoolgirl lesbian stories (often even ones of the 404: Men Not Found genre) there's no established cultural space for girl-girl love, and the central problem often is finding a way to overcome that or to create a personal way it can happen for the main couple.

But here it's like lesbianism is practically an approved club activity already (I'm exaggerating, of course, but not entirely), but Kagami keeps rejecting it. Your idea that Kagami is refusing the "maiden" option because her feelings go deeper than that is pretty convincing at this point, given that we aren't yet sure what "that" (i.e., the maiden status) actually is.

But you made me realize that there's a part of me that wants to say to Kagami, "Just go ahead and make Indou your maiden and get down to business, fool." I'm confident there's a good reason why she doesn't do that, but right now she remains almost as much a cypher to us as she is to our Little Hamster Cadet of Love.

I love this so much omg

I'm in love with this manga

I don't think Kagami is a tsundere. I see her as a troubled but cute onee-sama with a sugar-and-ice personality, etc. but all of these tropes are subverted with her in some way or another. Though maybe it's a dumb thing to try to debate tropes...

last edited at Jan 27, 2019 3:12PM

I ship ooba san with indou chan xDDD

Ahh. That one was really cute.

"Maiden" doesn't convey the connotations of 稚児 (chigo) at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_Japan#Military_same-sex_love

Wow that was a completely different word than I thought it was. I should have looked at the raw. Add that to the list of words I've never heard before.

https://jisho.org/search/%E7%A8%9A%E5%85%90

last edited at Feb 8, 2019 10:46PM

Happy Valentine's Day y'all.