Touko's reaction for me saved her character, I was still doubting at this point whether she was just using Yuu or actually loved her. Her immediate concern about Yuu's feelings all this time shows me Touko does love her, which is a relief. Now she only needs to process her feelings, realize being in a relationship would be OK and then talk to Yuu. That's much better than if she had immediately accepted Yuu, in which case she would have come off as an emotional manipulator. I just hope Touko is smart enough to at least send Yuu a text or call her, saying she didn't reject her but needs to think about what to do next. I bet that's what's going to happen, in this manga the characters are surprisingly reasonable.

How can she just now suddenly realize that she's been doing bad things to Yuu like it never even crossed her mind? And how it is relevant at all to whether that person loves her or not? So sexually ab(using) strangers or people that don't care about you is totally ok?

Because Yuu has been explicitly consenting to all of Touko's advances, like others have pointed out. She agreed to having this relationship with her. Have you ever heard of friends with benefits?

last edited at Aug 1, 2018 12:33PM

How can she just now suddenly realize that she's been doing bad things to Yuu like it never even crossed her mind? And how it is relevant at all to whether that person loves her or not? So sexually ab(using) strangers or people that don't care about you is totally ok?

Because Yuu has been explicitly consenting to all of Touko's advances, like others have pointed out. She agreed to having this relationship with her. Have you ever heard of friends with benefits?

Yuu's love for Touko is so strong and selfless that she'd set aside her own feelings and needs just to be able to help her loved one. I kinda wish she had a caring lover to support her instead of Touko. Someone who loved her wholeheartedly and stood always by her side, just like she did for Touko.

How can she just now suddenly realize that she's been doing bad things to Yuu like it never even crossed her mind? And how it is relevant at all to whether that person loves her or not? So sexually ab(using) strangers or people that don't care about you is totally ok?

Because Yuu has been explicitly consenting to all of Touko's advances, like others have pointed out. She agreed to having this relationship with her. Have you ever heard of friends with benefits?

Yuu's love for Touko is so strong and selfless that she'd set aside her own feelings and needs just to be able to help her loved one. I kinda wish she had a caring lover to support her instead of Touko. Someone who loved her wholeheartedly and stood always by her side, just like she did for Touko.

That may still be Touko. We remember that their relationship really did start out on a pretty weird and twisted (although not malicious) basis, so this is all part of the necessary process of getting it straightened out. Once they do I'm sure they could be good for each other (even more than they already have been).

To go Real Life (tm) for a minute, I've also never known the truly fundamentally "selfless" types to be attracted to people just like themselves as partners--they don't get enough to work with. (I'm not talking about having really selfish or narcissistic partners, just that two people who always prioritize the other one can kinda get caught in a feedback loop.)

I kinda wish she had a caring lover to support her instead of Touko.

What an odd statement. Until now Touko has been going off Yuu's explicitly stated original premise of never falling in love etc.; when she's told this is no longer the case her about first reaction is to kick herself over how much anguish she's unwittingly been causing the poor girl.

Pretty sure that's "caring" by any definition.

Big question though: why isn't Yuu crying?

Touko will make her cry on bed.

I kinda wish she had a caring lover to support her instead of Touko.

What an odd statement. Until now Touko has been going off Yuu's explicitly stated original premise of never falling in love etc.; when she's told this is no longer the case her about first reaction is to kick herself over how much anguish she's unwittingly been causing the poor girl.

Pretty sure that's "caring" by any definition.

What I meant was that, so far, Yuu has been the only one supporting Touko in her dreams and hardships. Touko never even asked what Yuu was going through, she just kept dragging her along with whatever she wanted to do, never coming too close. I wish someone would do for Yuu all that Yuu has done for Touko.

last edited at Aug 1, 2018 4:28PM

What I meant was that, so far, Yuu has been the only one supporting Touko in her dreams and hardships. Touko never even asked what Yuu was going through, she just kept dragging her along with whatever she wanted to do, never coming too close. I wish someone would do for Yuu all that Yuu has done for Touko.

While taking the point (Yuu is a darling, and deserves all the best of everything in the world), putting the personal relationship aside for a moment, hasn't to all appearances Touko been a pretty exemplary senpai to her kouhai? She's studied with her, been her mentor on the student council, and generally helped a shy first-year student find a significant place in the school.

On the emotional level, Yuu hasn't actually asked anyone (except her sister, obliquely) for any support at all. A lot of that is Touko's fault indirectly, but unless I'm forgetting something important, Touko has never demanded that Yuu keep their relationship a complete secret from everyone in her life. Yes, it's a given that discretion is in order at school, but (again, remind me if I'm wrong) the decision to keep completely silent about her feelings has been Yuu's alone. And that seems to have been less a conscious decision than a function of her own strong denial mechanisms about what those feelings were.

I don't want to victim-blame here--again, Yuu deserves everything good and a popsicle too--but one thing therapy has taught me is that nobody knows that you need something if you don't ask for it.

Also, I don't think Yuu has any significant life problems. She is so healthy, other than having the naive misconception she could not fall in love just because she hadn't yet.

This chapter sure got a lot of feedback..............
I think what finally broke the dam of emotion for Yuu was the following conversation

Touko: IT WOULD MAKE ME HAPPY, IF YOU WOULD STAY WITH ME JUST LIKE ALWAYS.

But under her rules, a one side relationship will sooner blow up or brake apart and Touko has some part of this, that Yuu to me, could no handle the situation no more, to suppress her feelings, that we saw coming from the chapter of the Play. No Touko must face that fact that someone loves her back maybe not under her control. Because people change in a relationship and you through the changes. She must now face Yuu either at school or any place,but this subject cannot remain the way it is.

Yuu is not a Idiot, she just finally fell in love with a person that still needs some help.

Funny it had to happen at the railroad bridge. do we all remember what happen there.

More questions.........
More challenges........

"All the worlds a stage.And all the men and women merely players...." W. Shakespeare.

"Brother what a way to run a railroad........" Bugs Bunny

I kinda wish she had a caring lover to support her instead of Touko.

What an odd statement. Until now Touko has been going off Yuu's explicitly stated original premise of never falling in love etc.; when she's told this is no longer the case her about first reaction is to kick herself over how much anguish she's unwittingly been causing the poor girl.

Pretty sure that's "caring" by any definition.

What I meant was that, so far, Yuu has been the only one supporting Touko in her dreams and hardships. Touko never even asked what Yuu was going through, she just kept dragging her along with whatever she wanted to do, never coming too close. I wish someone would do for Yuu all that Yuu has done for Touko.

Sir, I'm pleased to inform you that you might have incidentally stumbled across The Point Of The Story.

And, I mean, yeah, I agree with what Blastaar said - once you get past Touko's initial request that Yuu not develop feelings for her, which yeah is messed up because That's The Point, Touko's been a pretty good friend for her. It doesn't show in as showy or scandalous a way as Yuu letting Touko throw romantic advances at her, but Yuu's genuinely enjoyed Touko's company from the moment she met her, a point when she was feeling kind of lonely and directionless, and I've always gotten the impression that, quite in opposition to Touko's fears, Yuu appreciates how open Touko can be with her and being able to help her wrestle with her insecurities. Yuu doesn't want to spend less time with Touko, she just wants to be able to be honest with her about the one thing Touko accidentally asked her not to be honest about - an unfair request that neither of them even really understood Touko was making at the time.

last edited at Aug 1, 2018 7:11PM

Big question though: why isn't Yuu crying?
because she's doing that in the next chapter in front of her sister and then comes out

I wonder if we see Touko coming out though. I have a feeling her family is not gonna be too happy about it. So that might be too much drama for the end of the story. That worked well in Toradora though, so still a good possibility. Besides, I don't think that would be in Touko's character to come to a resolution of her feelings for Yuu without seriously considering their life together, their next steps. Poor Sayaka, she's gonna cry a lot very soon too.

I wonder if we see Touko coming out though. I have a feeling her family is not gonna be too happy about it.

Touko’s family has been pretty supportive, though. It’s very clear that the pressure Touko has felt to be “perfect”/emulate her sister is primarily self-imposed.

I’m guessing that having lost their only other child they might be disinclined to stand in the way of their surviving child’s happiness.

last edited at Aug 1, 2018 7:38PM

I wonder if we see Touko coming out though. I have a feeling her family is not gonna be too happy about it.

Touko’s family has been pretty supportive, though. It’s very clear that the pressure Touko has felt to be “perfect”/emulate her sister is primarily self-imposed.

I’m guessing that having lost their only other child they might be disinclined to stand in the way of their surviving child’s happiness.

I DOUBT the coming-out phase will be a big focus at all in the manga to come. I feel like if Nakatani wanted to write about that aspect she would have added in more foreshadowing or worries of what friends/family might think earlier on in the manga.

I wonder if we see Touko coming out though. I have a feeling her family is not gonna be too happy about it.

Touko’s family has been pretty supportive, though. It’s very clear that the pressure Touko has felt to be “perfect”/emulate her sister is primarily self-imposed.

I’m guessing that having lost their only other child they might be disinclined to stand in the way of their surviving child’s happiness.

I DOUBT the coming-out phase will be a big focus at all in the manga to come. I feel like if Nakatani wanted to write about that aspect she would have added in more foreshadowing or worries of what friends/family might think earlier on in the manga.

Right—the only hint of anything like that has been in Yuu’s family, where the dad said something like, “I’d have to put my foot down” about Yuu having a girlfriend. Meanwhile, Big Sis Rei is ready to help pick out the wedding flowers.

I don’t get the sense that Dad’s foot carries all that much weight in that house full of women. The house located above his mother-in-law’s bookstore.

last edited at Aug 1, 2018 9:02PM

I wonder if we see Touko coming out though. I have a feeling her family is not gonna be too happy about it.

Touko’s family has been pretty supportive, though. It’s very clear that the pressure Touko has felt to be “perfect”/emulate her sister is primarily self-imposed.

I’m guessing that having lost their only other child they might be disinclined to stand in the way of their surviving child’s happiness.

I DOUBT the coming-out phase will be a big focus at all in the manga to come. I feel like if Nakatani wanted to write about that aspect she would have added in more foreshadowing or worries of what friends/family might think earlier on in the manga.

Right—the only hint of anything like that has been in Yuu’s family, where the dad said something like, “I’d have to put my foot down” about Yuu having a girlfriend. Meanwhile, Big Sis Rei is ready to help pick out the wedding flowers.

I don’t get the sense that Dad’s foot carries all that much weight in that house full of women. The house located above his mother-in-law’s bookstore.

Interestingly, didn't Rei say that she expected Mom to be the stumbling block two chapters ago? "[Dad]'s a softie deep down. Grandma will defer to Mom. If anyone would oppose it, it would be mom..." And I don't think we really know enough about Mom to try and put that into any real context. Which, again, leads me to suspect that Nakatani doesn't plan to detail that part of things. Or at least she didn't when she was writing the first few volumes, anyway. Always possible she changes her mind or a publisher asks her to keep going past where she was planning to stop and she needs to reach for new ideas, or any number of other things.

I DOUBT the coming-out phase will be a big focus at all in the manga to come. I feel like if Nakatani wanted to write about that aspect she would have added in more foreshadowing or worries of what friends/family might think earlier on in the manga.

Yeah, I agree. It just doesn't feel like Nio to throw in coming out drama. It's been done far too often. If she does it then it'll be very minor in the plot.

Sir, I'm pleased to inform you that you might have incidentally stumbled across The Point Of The Story.

Yeah, I know. I just wish she'd end up with someone other than Touko. Won't be happening though.

By the way I'm a woman, not a sir ehehe

I wonder if we see Touko coming out though. I have a feeling her family is not gonna be too happy about it.

Touko’s family has been pretty supportive, though. It’s very clear that the pressure Touko has felt to be “perfect”/emulate her sister is primarily self-imposed.

I’m guessing that having lost their only other child they might be disinclined to stand in the way of their surviving child’s happiness.

I DOUBT the coming-out phase will be a big focus at all in the manga to come. I feel like if Nakatani wanted to write about that aspect she would have added in more foreshadowing or worries of what friends/family might think earlier on in the manga.

Right—the only hint of anything like that has been in Yuu’s family, where the dad said something like, “I’d have to put my foot down” about Yuu having a girlfriend. Meanwhile, Big Sis Rei is ready to help pick out the wedding flowers.

I don’t get the sense that Dad’s foot carries all that much weight in that house full of women. The house located above his mother-in-law’s bookstore.

I half-wonder if the "put his foot down" could have been more of a general 'dad doesn't approve of daughter's significant other' stereotype and he really doesn't care about the gender. That's how I initially read it, and sis's thoughts would support that. Not sure, though; with Japan's attitudes it's hard to tell.

Also, I don't think Yuu has any significant life problems. She is so healthy, other than having the naive misconception she could not fall in love just because she hadn't yet.

Yuu is certainly more mentally stable and healthy than Touko, but she is not without her issues. Her greatest defining trait and flaw is that she always puts the feelings of others before her own. She is quite emotionally rudderless and just goes with the flow which makes her a very kind person, but it's also not good for her sense of agency or for finding her own happiness in life.

This is what makes Yuu finally standing up for herself and telling Touko how she feels and what she wants from their relationship such a huge step for her.

last edited at Aug 1, 2018 11:34PM

I just wish she'd end up with someone other than Touko. Won't be happening though.

Definitely it's Touko who needs to change (improve) more for their relationship to work. She has her issues and those brought them together in the first place. (Yuu wanted to help her.) Unless Touko refuses trying or fails for selfish reasons, I don't see why Yuu should leave her for someone else at this point.

Touko has a lot of good points, too. She's capable, responsible, and has cared for Yuu since the beginning. Her constant focus on her problems resulted in her treatment of others being clumsy to say the least, though she still did fairly well being a(n oblivious) friend to Sayaka and a(n oblivious) friend/lover to Yuu.

She didn't intentionally hurt Yuu with her request either. It was selfish, though given Yuu's disposition she might have thought it would be reassuring for them both that those conditions are enough to be fulfilled. Yuu needed to point out the things Touko had been blind to, but not for Touko's sake only, and I see no reason why Touko couldn't redeem her mistake and (unwitting) ignorance yet, because this chapter still points towards her loving Yuu wholeheartedly.

(The acting path beyond the play makes me a bit nervous, but that's not related to Touko as a person.)

I DOUBT the coming-out phase will be a big focus at all in the manga to come. I feel like if Nakatani wanted to write about that aspect she would have added in more foreshadowing or worries of what friends/family might think earlier on in the manga.

Right—the only hint of anything like that has been in Yuu’s family, where the dad said something like, “I’d have to put my foot down” about Yuu having a girlfriend. Meanwhile, Big Sis Rei is ready to help pick out the wedding flowers.

I don’t get the sense that Dad’s foot carries all that much weight in that house full of women. The house located above his mother-in-law’s bookstore.

I half-wonder if the "put his foot down" could have been more of a general 'dad doesn't approve of daughter's significant other' stereotype and he really doesn't care about the gender. That's how I initially read it, and sis's thoughts would support that. Not sure, though; with Japan's attitudes it's hard to tell.

Eh, most likely he's just going through the motions of a dad in a society with internalized homophobia.

He probably hasn't ever actually considered how he should react if one of his daughters came out as gay, he just knows that society considers it inappropriate. When confronted with an honest-to-god lesbian daughter, His empathy and affection for his kid will probably prompt an epiphany in that respect. At least that's what Rei seems to think.

The fact that she thinks her mom is harder to lock down is a little concerning. Maybe mom has a strong traditional/conservative streak?

last edited at Aug 2, 2018 6:15AM

Her constant focus on her problems resulted in her treatment of others being clumsy to say the least, though she still did fairly well being a(n oblivious) friend to Sayaka and a(n oblivious) friend/lover to Yuu.

I think this is what bothers me about her. I know Touko genuinely loves You, it's just that... Touko is a nice person in general, but she's a bit selfish, she doesn't take an interest in the problems of people around her. And Yuu is just this perfect fluffy wonderful gal who cares about others, so I'd rather she found someone like that too for herself.

But that would make no sense at this point in the story, particularly because we're already headed towards the final chapters, so it wouldn't do to change the direction of the plot so radically now. Touko/Yuu isn't bad either, they love each other and all, it's just that, personally, I think Yuu is too good for Touko.

last edited at Aug 2, 2018 7:31AM

^ Like I said, a person who needs to take care of the needs of others partnered with someone else who needs to take care of the needs of others is actually a real-life trainwreck.

Let’s face it, Yuu’s the best, so no one is actually good enough for Yuu.

So she gets whoever she loves.

I think this is what bothers me about her. I know Touko genuinely loves You, it's just that... Touko is a nice person in general, but she's a bit selfish, she doesn't take an interest in the problems of people around her. And Yuu is just this perfect fluffy wonderful gal who cares about others, so I'd rather she found someone like that too for herself.

But that would make no sense at this point in the story, particularly because we're already headed towards the final chapters, so it wouldn't do to change the direction of the plot so radically now. Touko/Yuu isn't bad either, they love each other and all, it's just that, personally, I think Yuu is too good for Touko.

To be fair, we haven't seen Yuu face any problems. She's quite apathetic too, and these things about her contrast Touko, who has had different issues since the beginning. The only suffering Yuu has experienced is having to repress her feeelings because she wanted to be with Touko, and this is something the latter just found out, and her first reaction was feeling bad for what she has done to Yuu, so I don't think Touko is that selfish (she still is, but not to the point of completely insensitivity).
So, we've yet to see how Touko is gonna act now that she knows she has hurt Yuu, and how she's gonna take Yuu's feelings into consideration. It would be nice to see Yuu going through any difficulty too, to see how Touko would support her. Regardless, I'm sure Touko would have supported Yuu at any point of the story if she had seen her having a bad time.

I'm wondering how many chapters the anime will cover. The pacing in the manga doesn't give the impression that there's much room for further improvement. It'd be quite a tragedy if the plot is rushed. Almost as worrisome would be a "go read the manga" ending.