Honesty, I'm mostly just thankful that someone took the time to translate the chapter and upload it. As such, whatever decision the scanlator makes should be respected. I don't know about the rest of you, but as far as manga goes, I have not done any work to aid in the process, so complaining feels awkward.

On one side the scottish accent makes it interesting and properly protrays how different her speech as different, however (as many people have stated) it also makes it more difficult to read.

In that case I have 2 suggestions, (again, even if you disagree, I take no offense and will just be grateful).

1) In the sections where her accent is being used, you could simply change the font (much like how you did with english being used) to signal to the readers it is different.

2) Instead of translating the dialect every time it is used, (although telling the readers when it is can still be an option) make the dialect Scottish only when it has a direct impact on the story. For example, in the situations thtt you mentioned where other characters comment on her odd dialect.

I hope I provided any degree of help, without stepping on anyone's toes.

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 9:22AM

Update. Well, since I know what happens next, I will pass. Too much het in this manga. And I hate Aoi.

I called it

oohf... from a creative standpoint, i understand the use of such a strong dialect to stress how different her regular speech patterns are from those around her... but the scottish ends up being a little to out there to be effective, especially for her more serious thoughts & dialogue. maybe a different accent would be better? (tho i will happily take scottish accent translation over no translation)

it's been 2 years... i thought the scanlator drop this series

Long chapters are the best. Reading 38 pages really gets you invested in the story.

Honesty, I'm mostly just thankful that someone took the time to translate the chapter and upload it. As such, whatever decision the scanlator makes should be respected. I don't know about the rest of you, but as far as manga goes, I have not done any work to aid in the process, so complaining feels awkward.

Actually, no. Imagine a translator picking up something and giving one of the characters an accent where they speak in a language you don't understand a word of just for the sake of immersion...

Regarding the translation here.... I actually understand the thought behind it. In theory giving a character a hard to understand accent because they are hard to understand in the non-translated version is a good idea. But actually having to read a sentence 4 to 5 times just to get what they're saying makes me wanna drop the whole thing and never read it again...

Adding a note to this song:
I didn't have any difficulty in understanding what was said. So I'm OK with translator's choice on this matter.

Same here, english as second language and had no issues with legibility. Took a page or so to get used to it but after that smooth sailing.

No problem with the dialect as a second languager as well, however I will also agree that the laddie and lassie feels out of place.

Also, is there a chapter 3 and or more?

At first I thought this chapter was going to be the obligatory "lesbian gets pressured into attending a mixer" event. What I got instead was much more entertaining.

I had never considered that people think of non-standard US English as "not serious", nor did I realise that changing of the "do/can" verb to a regional variant would make it hard to understand. I deliberately chose not to use too much regional vocabulary, because I didn't want to make it too hard to understand.

While I do understand that some people find the accent hard to understand, that's part of her character. I chose to use Scottish because Ohsawa chose to use a Hakata accent.

The accent Nanami has is thought of as "dorky" and a "country bumpkin" accent in Japan, so on the contrary, the preconceptions some of you seem to have about non-American English should just help get that part of her character across even better.

Summary: I translated a non-standard accent into another non-standard accent, just as I would've translated obnoxiously complicated Japanese into obnoxiously complicated English. My goal as a translator is to translate and convey the tone of the original as closely as possible, not to make things easier to understand than they were in the original.

Would people ask for revisions of Agatha Christie's Poirot because they don't understand the occasional French, I wonder (and would Japanese readers ask Ohsawa to change Nanami's accent to a more familiar Kansai accent, because her current one sounds "dumb" and is hard to understand if you haven't heard it before?).

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 11:23AM

A last mc accept that she can get a girlfriend, is open for that.

I had never considered that people think of non-standard US English as "not serious", nor did I realise that changing of the "do/can" verb to a regional variant would make it hard to understand. I deliberately chose not to use too much regional vocabulary, because I didn't want to make it too hard to understand.

While I do understand that some people find the accent hard to understand, that's part of her character. I chose to use Scottish because Ohsawa chose to use a Hakata accent.

The accent Nanami has is thought of as "dorky" and a "country bumpkin" accent in Japan, so on the contrary, the preconceptions some of you seem to have about non-American English should just help get that part of her character across even better.

Summary: I translated a non-standard accent into another non-standard accent, just as I would've translated obnoxiously complicated Japanese into obnoxiously complicated English. My goal as a translator is to translate and convey the tone of the original as closely as possible, not to make things easier to understand than they were in the original.

Would people ask for revisions of Agatha Christie's Poirot because they don't understand the occasional French, I wonder (and would Japanese readers ask Ohsawa to change Nanami's accent to a more familiar Kansai accent, because her current one sounds "dumb" and is hard to understand if you haven't heard it before?).

Ayo my negro, don't need to play defense just cuz a few forwards tryna take the ball from you. You the centre, and you decide what happens with the ball. I'm lovin the way you play right now, so keep on hitting the 3-pointers my man

Okay, here's the thing.

A Scottish accent is not comedic or ridiculous. But a Scottish accent coming from a clearly-Japanese woman, speaking Japanese, in the middle of Japan... well, it kind of is. Accents aren't just random collections of funny pronunciations and slang, they have their own geographic and cultural connotations, and when you simply slot out one to replace with another, suddenly none of those fit any more. You say you don't want to injure her character by removing an aspect of it, and while I understand that desire, you're doing even more harm by adding entirely new aspects simply by introducing the connotations of a Scottish person to her where they clearly have no place. I can't engage with her character because the idea of a random Japanese woman in the middle of Tokyo with a cliche highlands accent is too ridiculous- and to be clear, I am Scottish, so I have no problems whatsoever understanding it. It also goes against the desire to have a translation be as transparent as possible: every time I see an "aboot" or "dinnae", I'm instantly aware that I'm reading a translation and taken out of the dialogue itself.

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 11:44AM

Okay, here's the thing.

A Scottish accent is not comedic or ridiculous. But a Scottish accent coming from a clearly-Japanese woman, speaking Japanese, in the middle of Japan... well, it kind of is.

?
?? This is an English translation? Are you saying that a southern US accent makes more sense for a Japanese woman to have?
Or are you saying that you somehow want the Japanese Hakata dialect in... English?

every time I see an "aboot" or "dinnae", I'm instantly aware that I'm reading a translation and taken out of the dialogue itself.

That's exactly it? This is a translation? I'm glad we're on the same page here then, would hate for you to miss the point of this being an English translation of a Japanese series.

?? This is an English translation? Are you saying that a southern US accent makes more sense for a Japanese woman to have?
Or are you saying that you somehow want the Japanese Hakata dialect in... English?

I'm saying don't translate dialects when you don't have to, because it rarely works out well - such as here, where suddenly I'm being presented with an inexplicably Scottish Japanese woman. When did I ever mention Southern accents?

While we're on the subject, though, the whole Kansai-ben = Southern thing is a tiny bit better, purely because of how often it's used, which means that at least some readers will be able to immediately realize what it's coding for instead of simply seeing the character as being from the South. There's no mental mapping like that for Hakata = Scottish.

Also, if you really, really want a British "country-bumpkin" accent, well, there already is one, and it's West Country, not Scottish.

every time I see an "aboot" or "dinnae", I'm instantly aware that I'm reading a translation and taken out of the dialogue itself.
That's exactly it? This is a translation? I'm glad we're on the same page here then, would hate for you to miss the point of this being an English translation of a Japanese series.

Please don't be obtuse. As the part of the post you didn't quote said, the goal of a translation is to be as transparent as possible. Every time there's a clear Scottish phrase, I immediately am aware that "hey, look, an artifact of translation" and am taken out of actually engaging with the dialogue itself.

@DYWYPI
If a defining and frequently referenced part of her character isn't a reason to include a dialect in the translation, what are your criteria for it being required?

?? This is an English translation? Are you saying that a southern US accent makes more sense for a Japanese woman to have?
Or are you saying that you somehow want the Japanese Hakata dialect in... English?

I'm saying don't translate dialects when you don't have to, because it rarely works out well - such as here, where suddenly I'm being presented with an inexplicably Scottish Japanese woman. When did I ever mention Southern accents?

Yeah but here's the thing
You do have to. That's what the translator has been repeating over and over. It's literally part of the character. Character has an unconventional accent, she doesn't speak in standard Japanese. She doesn't speak in a Kansai accent either, so no southern stuff.

every time I see an "aboot" or "dinnae", I'm instantly aware that I'm reading a translation and taken out of the dialogue itself.

That's exactly it? This is a translation? I'm glad we're on the same page here then, would hate for you to miss the point of this being an English translation of a Japanese series.

Please don't be obtuse. As the part of the post you didn't quote said, the goal of a translation is to be as transparent as possible. Every time there's a clear Scottish phrase, I immediately am aware that "hey, look, an artifact of translation" and am taken out of actually engaging with the dialogue itself.

Yeah but that's just like your opinion, man
I'm sure the Japanese readers found the accent quite noticeable in Japanese too, lol
I don't think the translator should fuckin bury it just because you dislike translations of dialects
But alright, if you insist.
Here you go, the Japanese woman in Japan, speaking with the proper accent, no artifact of translation to take you out of your reading

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 12:28PM

If a defining and frequently referenced part of her character isn't a reason to include a dialect in the translation, what are your criteria for it being required?

If a dialect is necessary for the story or character to make sense, do it minimally. The approach in the first chapter was fine: she clearly talks differently, but - crucially - in a non-region-specific way. As soon as you bring a specific geographic accent in, you're instantly introducing a whole bunch of spurious connotations to the character that almost certainly undo any good the presence of a specific dialect could do. No, the generic "she talks differently" doesn't convey the same meaning as the original Hakata dialect - but neither does the Scottish, and it at least does so without making her seem to be Scottish instead. Ultimately, the only time the meaning of a dialect is going to be as clear to English readers as it would be to those of the original language is when it's directly referenced and explained in dialogue, and so generally the least harm a translator can do is to take it as far as is needed for those referenced to make sense without going overboard.

Ultimately, it's your translation and your choices to make. But I tried to read this chapter and just couldn't take her dialogue seriously, which is why I posted.

EDIT:

You do have to. That's what the translator has been repeating over and over. It's literally part of the character. Character has an unconventional accent, she doesn't speak in standard Japanese. She doesn't speak in a Kansai accent either, so no southern stuff.

I know what they said; I'm disagreeing with it. That's sort of the point of my post. When you translate a character with a dialect, you will inevitably do harm to their character. But you will likely do less harm avoiding or minimizing it than you will suddenly making them appear to be Scottish or Mexian or Italian or whatever. You lose part of one way one aspect of her character is expressed, but you avoid adding a whole piles of entirely new aspects of her character that don't really exist.

I'm sure the Japanese readers found the accent quite noticeable in Japanese too, lol

That's... not really my point. Noticing "hey, she's from Hakata" in a line doesn't take you out of the story; if anything, it draws you into it. Noticing "hey, she's Scottish... wait, no, that doesn't make sense. Oh, right, it's from the translation" does.

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 12:42PM

That's... not really my point

I'm not sure you were making appropriate points the whole time tbh. I really disagree with your stance ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Noticing "hey, she's Scottish... wait, no, that doesn't make sense. Oh, right, it's from the translation" does.

There's no reason why you'd think like that though
No one reads manga in American English and thinks "okay they're American". You sound like... a special case.

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 12:55PM

I'm not sure you were making appropriate points the whole time tbh. I really disagree with your stance ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I'm glad we had this productive conversation.

There's no reason why you'd think like that though
No one reads manga in American English and thinks "okay they're American". You sound like... a special case.

Just as was the case for Southern and Kansai-ben, we have an automatic mapping between English and Japanese. We know, by convention, that when we read standard English, it's coding for Japanese speakers and Japanese characters (for instance, consider how distracting a subtitle along the lines of "just tell me in English!" can we - the localization breaks our mapping by implying that they really are English speakers, not Japanese). There is no such mapping for Hakata being Scottish - I have no intuitive concept of what a Scottish accent means for a Japanese character, and so she just sounds Scottish.

Couldn't you just invent a new accent? For example, take Scottish, and then remove some of the weirdness from it, (keep "Ye", remove "laddie/lassie/dinnae/etc"). It'd maintain the fact that she's speaking something different (all that non-Japanese readers really care about) while making it easy to understand. Using Scottish directly drags along all the connotations of being Scottish, not being Hakata, which does a disservice to the translation.

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 1:30PM

For me, it's less about being able to understand than it is being able to read this seriously without reading it like the Scotsman from Samurai Jack.

Same, really. Despite my best efforts, I can't help but hear a large, angry Scottish man.
Personally, I'd say if you're going to replace a dialect with an accent, go with something less specific and instantly recognizable.

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 1:35PM

I have to admit the "translation" of the accent makes it a pain to read it for me. I stumble on the "dinnae" every time.

It would be worth it if maybe the other characters noticed she has an accent.

But here, just plain english would have been better instead of that adaptation.

Just my opinion. Translator choice and all that...

Compromise, she changes accent with every chapter.