RPPuzzle posted:

Are we both women? Are we both from religious backgrounds, or just really idealistic about wanting humanity to be altruistic? Hmm...

I'm all of those things and I think it is really far-fetched and could only possibly work out in the manga and not real life, so I guess that wasn't the reason.

RPPuzzle posted:

Nya-chan said:

OR, he's a genuinely good guy that married Kaoru because he knew that she and his sister needed each other and had a special relationship and if he didn't marry her, they would eventually drift apart.

So, if at first he turned down Kaoru several times, because he didn't particularly like her, he changed his mind when he noticed how the relationship between Kaoru and his sister was evolving. It's been hinted that he actually knows something.

So, all this time, he was preparing for the future and by playing the (cheating) bad guy, he planned to fade in the background and unite Kaoru and Uta.

Who knows. I've read more complicated setups.

This is the first scenario I thought of. People poking holes in it is sound, but I am curious what factor led to both of us thinking this, and others not even considering it a possibility? Are we both women? Are we both from religious backgrounds, or just really idealistic about wanting humanity to be altruistic? Hmm...

Two out of three. I don't believe in god.

It's probably a projection of my own feelings, because I can't imagine myself cheating. And when I read about someone doing it, most of the time it doesn't compute.

I was thinking that the "cheating husband" was a really poor plot device and I didn't think the author was that lazy, because this manga's plot is more intricate than that.

Nya-chan posted:

Two out of three. I don't believe in god.

I don't believe in god either, but they said from religious background. Not believing in god.

RPPuzzle posted:

Nya-chan said:

OR, he's a genuinely good guy that married Kaoru because he knew that she and his sister needed each other and had a special relationship and if he didn't marry her, they would eventually drift apart.

So, if at first he turned down Kaoru several times, because he didn't particularly like her, he changed his mind when he noticed how the relationship between Kaoru and his sister was evolving. It's been hinted that he actually knows something.

So, all this time, he was preparing for the future and by playing the (cheating) bad guy, he planned to fade in the background and unite Kaoru and Uta.

Who knows. I've read more complicated setups.

This is the first scenario I thought of. People poking holes in it is sound, but I am curious what factor led to both of us thinking this, and others not even considering it a possibility? Are we both women? Are we both from religious backgrounds, or just really idealistic about wanting humanity to be altruistic? Hmm...

This sounds like something the Yuri Danshi guy would do, but probably not gonna happen in this piece since the plot feels just a little bit too serious for it.

Nevri posted:

Nya-chan posted:

Two out of three. I don't believe in god.

I don't believe in god either, but they said from religious background. Not believing in god.

What is "a religious background"?

Just curious. I was baptized as a catholic, because my parents wanted to please the grandparents. But I never went to church as a kid, or even now.

Ofc, I know the stories in the bible, like Moses, jesus dying for "our sake" and all that jazz. But I think these are just made up stories. Does that count as a "religious background"?

last edited at Nov 25, 2017 5:33AM

Nya-chan posted:

What is "a religious background"?

Just curious. I was baptized as a catholic, because my parents wanted to please the grandparents. But I never went to church as a kid, or even now.

The way I understand it is that you were raised in catholic family, but you don't have to necessary believe. You might have believed at first, but then you lost faith or something. In my case I was properly going to church etc. until in my later teens I realized the religion is bs and stopped believing. OP might have something different in mind though.

You can't lose something you never had. I don't think I ever believed. My parents were not religious, though they went to church themselves as kids and married in church, but mostly because it was "the thing to do" in their community. They never made me go to church. I remember trying to "seriously" read the bible when I was a teen, but I couldn't go far and I was reading it like I'd read fantasy : no connection to reality at all.

And anyway, there's no social stigma in my country if you don't go to church. It would rather be the reverse : when someone relatively young goes to church, people look at them with pity, because they think they are forced to, or are brainwashed. Churches are a place for old people. France has been a secular country for more than a century.

Nevri posted:

Nya-chan posted:

Two out of three. I don't believe in god.

I don't believe in god either, but they said from religious background. Not believing in god.

What is "a religious background"?

"I don't believe in god" just doesn't fully contemplate not having a religious background. You could be a devout buddhist, for example.

Nya-chan posted:

You can't (...) a century.

Then I guess it doesn't really count as religious background since you never really were raised in family or community that was religious that could have some impact on you. At least according to how I understand it. Also I have to correct myself. I do believe in god. I believe in Madokami.

last edited at Nov 25, 2017 11:38PM

Nevri posted:

Nya-chan posted:

You can't (...) a century.

Then I guess it doesn't really count as religious background since you never really were raised in family or community that was religious that could have some impact on you. At least according to how I understand it. Also I have to correct myself. I do believe in god. I believe in Madokami.

Compassion, wanting to see people in a good light, being optimistic, or positive is not reserved to "people with a religious background".

Nevri posted:

Nya-chan posted:

What is "a religious background"?

Just curious. I was baptized as a catholic, because my parents wanted to please the grandparents. But I never went to church as a kid, or even now.

The way I understand it is that you were raised in catholic family, but you don't have to necessary believe. You might have believed at first, but then you lost faith or something. In my case I was properly going to church etc. until in my later teens I realized the religion is bs and stopped believing. OP might have something different in mind though.

You were right Nevri. I don't currently believe in a God either, but I was raised that way, thus "religious background." Maybe kids never buy into it, but if you try to or your parents do and encouraged it, I think it influences a person's life a lot if only subconsciously. But I definitely could be wrong since I didn't have religion play a background role growing up. It was very much in the foreground.

But yeah you're right Nya-chan, you don't have to be raised religious to be a good person, that's why I put the "altruistic" option, because maybe we just want to believe and project to others that deep down people do the moral, right thing maybe. Not sure what it is that led us to the same scenario, but I think it's interesting to think about.

Also @Nevri, yeah like Nya-chan said, maybe it was just not having much connection with cheating plots in general that made me think Nya-chan's and I's scenario was plausible fictionally. Sometimes I forget to think outside the realm of fiction is why I was surprised to see holes poked in it so easily haha. So maybe if I was more realistic-minded about fiction I would have seen yeah no that scenario isn't likely. Thanks for teaching/reminding me of that valuable distinction everyone. Reality checks help me out personally.

Fun stuff to explore, and I feel less alone now. Sometimes it feels like it's mainly men reading yuri. Thank you both for indulging me. Also @none yes Buddhism would be a religious background too.

last edited at Nov 26, 2017 5:20AM

Nevri posted:

Nya-chan posted:

You can't (...) a century.

Then I guess it doesn't really count as religious background since you never really were raised in family or community that was religious that could have some impact on you. At least according to how I understand it. Also I have to correct myself. I do believe in god. I believe in Madokami.

Compassion, wanting to see people in a good light, being optimistic, or positive is not reserved to "people with a religious background".

As the saying goes, "You can be good without god".

And on the flip side, the weird concept that a lot of religious authoritarians hold that if it weren't for religion people would be raping, murdering, etc. because there's no morality to hold them back is the sheerest bullshit.

Nya-chan posted:

Compassion, wanting to see people in a good light, being optimistic, or positive is not reserved to "people with a religious background".

I never said you lacked any of those qualities or that they only exist in religious groups. We were talking about religious background so I focused on religion aspect. I guess some values usually do overlap, but of course the idea you can't be moral person without higher power is a total bollocks.

RPPuzzle posted:

Also @Nevri, yeah like Nya-chan said, maybe it was just not having much connection with cheating plots in general that made me think Nya-chan's and I's scenario was plausible fictionally. Sometimes I forget to think outside the realm of fiction is why I was surprised to see holes poked in it so easily haha. So maybe if I was more realistic-minded about fiction I would have seen yeah no that scenario isn't likely. Thanks for teaching/reminding me of that valuable distinction everyone. Reality checks help me out personally.

To be fair, I have no experiences with cheating as well and I didn't really read many manga that have it. And I do hate the idea itself. I guess it is more that I read a lot of manga, especially shoujo one, where contrived situation and drama for the sake of drama is common place and main way to prolong the story and keep reader's interest in reading making them wonder what will happened next. So I guess I just saw (potential) cheating in this case more as a story-teller device. Though as I said before, I do believe it will rather turn out to be (really stupid) misunderstanding.

Fun stuff to explore, and I feel less alone now. Sometimes it feels like it's mainly men reading yuri. Thank you both for indulging me.

You're welcome ;3

last edited at Nov 26, 2017 10:09AM

woah I really love everyone's theories. this is gonna be so interesting.

Wow what a GREAT time for me to pick up this manga only for it to be at it's latest CLIFFHANGER!! O_o

That busty lady with glasses(whom i assume was the girl in the past getting to date the bro)... She's one of her friends... No?

Yeah well maybe it was for his lil sis who went through a lot and he thought the solution of marrying the lady who made his sis happy again would be perfect... though he'd maybe not love his wife that way, never...?

I NEED ANSWERS!!

I don't honestly like this type of story.

I don't honestly like this type of story.

That's a bit lacking... Why?

Poor Uta who isn't helped by Kaoru's affection. You see, I think it's funny but this kind of ordeal could very well have its place in an incest story. The fact that Kaoru loves Uta as her sister and keep showing it, the struggle Uta experiences feels kind of similar to what a protagonist in an incest story could experience. But I don't think I've seen it in actual incest stories. Perhaps I haven't read enough!

last edited at Dec 12, 2017 1:50PM

Ahh tmnr's signature is so cute!!

Whenever I start getting depressed over my straight crush, I think back on this manga to remind myself that I'm not alone.

So I'm pretty sure that the husband has his reasons for cheating (I think he knows how Uta feels about Kaoru, and I think he suspects that Kaoru married him out of guilt for their past and affection for his sister), but I feel like it's kind of gross how many people here seem desperate to excuse what he's doing here. At the very least, he's been lying to his wife and seeing her friend behind her back. The flashback implies he has a history with that woman and that he's hurt Kaoru over her before. His "business trips" are obviously cover for his infidelity and she even used the same excuse when she came to visit Kaoru. Even if he has complex motivations, I promise you, this guy is a cheater and has betrayed Kaoru's trust. He has not earned the mental gymnastics you guys are going through to justify the situation. If this was meant to be a misunderstanding, we probably would have been shown more of his side of it. If the next volume doesn't explicitly start with a flashback showing how it was an actual misunderstanding, then yeah, he's dipping his wick, and he deserves a visit from Truck-san.

;v; Freaking adorable. You can also sew a blanket to get "warmed" up. (Insert lenny face)

Still not even sure If I actually want to continue to read this or just start skipping it when I see that it's been updated. But I'm trying to contribute to the discussion and not be a downer so if you are enjoying this than I'm happy for you.

Feels like a common thing to show how being close to someone you're in love with can be a sort of torture, especially if they aren't even aware of it, but this short does it exceptionally well. And I say this as one who finds fluff annoying more often than not.

Well. Maybe the next actual chapter will find a path that I can get behind.

@Heavensrun

Trying to understand his acts isn't the same thing as forgiving him. Sure, trying to understand someone helps to bring empathy and may make it possible to sympathise with them, but not all the time. You can try to understand how a serial killer functions, why they do what they do, that doesn't mean you will be excusing what they did, on the contrary.

That said, trying to diminish his faults or defend him may have to do with the fact that he seemed like a chill/cool guy which is, apparently, a rare treat in a yuri manga. So maybe they're defending the idea of having a nice male character in a yuri story more than the character as a person.

Feels like a common thing to show how being close to someone you're in love with can be a sort of torture, especially if they aren't even aware of it, but this short does it exceptionally well. And I say this as one who finds fluff annoying more often than not.

Exactly why I love this story, the distress of Uta feels so real it kinda hurts. I hope we're in a ride for some kind of solace for all of them.

last edited at Dec 12, 2017 7:04PM

Ugh, why the heck do I keep reading things that're bad for my heart. Unrequited love is like trying to claw my lower eyelids out of my face to cry tears of blood.

Honestly whether or not it was really cheating doesn't deny how Reiichi is being a total ass during this time, he lied to Kaoru and he isn't making any large effort to empathize with her either when he makes plans or forgets their anniversary and doesn't try to make up for it.
It's a shame because he seemed like a cool chill guy at the beginning and he's Uta's brother so I had high hopes that the plot would be a little more nuanced and not just throw characters into the irredeemable zone all cliché (if it does turn out to be cheating), especially with the hint dropping that he might know of Uta's feelings.

However if it's not cheating I just personally can't forsee any smooth way to bring Kaoru and Uta closer together from this. I mean if Reiichi's any rational human dude he'd rush his wife who fell down 20+ stairs straight into the pavement behind him directly to the hospital and they'd /have/ to make up and have the misunderstanding explained right then and there, meanwhile Uta not being present won't have any good chance to interact.

But ehh that's too much overthinking. I still prefer this over NTR which I gave up since the moment it went into that cheating shit and Citrus became a bit stale now no offense. The art for this is well above average too and if it's recommended by Nakatani and was very good so far I still have good faith that the author can surprise us and make this work out.