Eeeh, well, yeah neet are running way from society because they can't handle it. Perhaps voluntarily, perhaps not, look at the anxiety she faced during the first chapter. Also sometimes, you let yourself go so much it's hard to climb back, so all in all, her situation isn't really great, deserved or not. I can still feel sympathy for her since it happened to me for some times!

It's not like her mother has a job.

Klice posted:

Eeeh, well, yeah neet are running way from society because they can't handle it. Perhaps voluntarily, perhaps not, look at the anxiety she faced during the first chapter. Also sometimes, you let yourself go so much it's hard to climb back, so all in all, her situation isn't really great, deserved or not. I can still feel sympathy for her since it happened to me for some times!

My worse moment was like 4 years ago when I had like half a year without work... And the shame of not being useful was greater than my fear of being rejected from an interview, when I saw my family discussing bills, food and stuff like that while I was just there in silence was horrible, so I have little tolerance for NEETs... I really believe that there must be something she could do even from the commodity of her own house like crafting, online services... * cough* make a twich account and play games*cough * or a part time job in a coffee where you don't require a degree as long as you have good manners and good presence. But right now she looks like someone who just want to play games with free food without being bothered by society.

What really pains me is the fact that she doesn't have a close friend or someone to talk, she might fall into deeper depression like that thinking that her old classmates trying to help her are just making fun of her... With connections you get more opportunities.

Hmmm(￣◇￣;)

Serenata posted:

I don't feel bad for her anymore haha, she just wants to have it easy.

I assume you haven't experienced severe anxiety? Cause it's pretty obvious she has some sort of legitimate anxiety issue rather than simply wanting to have it easy.

Serenata posted:

I don't feel bad for her anymore haha, she just wants to have it easy.

I assume you haven't experienced severe anxiety? Cause it's pretty obvious she has some sort of legitimate anxiety issue rather than simply wanting to have it easy.

Thinking about it, isn't the idea here that we're supposed to find extreme anxiety funny?

Sounds kinda mean when you look at it that way.

Alice Cheshire posted:

Serenata posted:

I don't feel bad for her anymore haha, she just wants to have it easy.

I assume you haven't experienced severe anxiety? Cause it's pretty obvious she has some sort of legitimate anxiety issue rather than simply wanting to have it easy.

Yeah but in a different form... A big problem for a NEET is being like that because the family lets them stay comfortable, like that anime NHK there were two NEETs one worse than the other, and the worse one couldn't even leave his room (Neeko could end up like that but this is a comedy so I doubt it)... The mother thought that she had no option, she brings him food everyday to his door until one day she just leaves the house, what do you think the guy did?

last edited at Nov 21, 2017 3:19PM

There's something to be said about the stigma coming with the label "NEET".

I just read this feminist/leftist/whatever comic (same author that did the infamous "Mental Load" comic) and the mention of "bullshit jobs" strikes me as something to consider.

Our societies are obsessed with unemployment. That if you don't have a job, then it means you're worthless. But actually, we should probably work less.

So, the whole society around Neeko tries to make her feel bad about being unable to find a job. And she does! But, actually, she probably shouldn't.

And maybe that's the final message of Neeko : being a NEET is okay. You can play Video Games at home, or slave away as some random office lady, the net result for humanity will be the same. But in the latter case, you'll be a lot less happy.

last edited at Nov 21, 2017 3:43PM

Nezchan posted:

Thinking about it, isn't the idea here that we're supposed to find extreme anxiety funny?

Sounds kinda mean when you look at it that way.

I suppose to someone who hasn't suffered from anxiety issues past what you'd normally expect someone to experience it could be funny.

Serenata posted:

Yeah but in a different form... A big problem for a NEET is being like that because the family lets them stay comfortable, like that anime NHK there were two NEETs one worse than the other, and the worse one couldn't even leave his room (Neeko could end up like that but this is a comedy so I doubt it)... The mother thought that she had no option, she brings him food everyday to his door until one day she just leaves the house, what do you think the guy did?

You're also approaching this from the completely wrong direction though. You're assuming that all the anxiety is caused by the NEET status. That's not the case in a lot of situations though. There are certainly people who fall into anxiety issues because of a NEET status but there's also a lot who fall into a NEET status because of their anxiety issues.

Ok, you are missing the point so freaking much...

Thank you for this whole post, it gives great insight into a translator's point of view, which clearly is different from a student of Japanese's point of view.

Interestingly, it reminds me of a passage from the Love My Life manga where the experienced eng>jps translator father is advising his daughter/apprentice to focus not on direct translation but to discern what the author is trying to get across.

Well put, otôsan.

last edited at Nov 21, 2017 4:27PM

Serenata posted:

I don't feel bad for her anymore haha, she just wants to have it easy.

I assume you haven't experienced severe anxiety? Cause it's pretty obvious she has some sort of legitimate anxiety issue rather than simply wanting to have it easy.

Thinking about it, isn't the idea here that we're supposed to find extreme anxiety funny?

Sounds kinda mean when you look at it that way.

Which is, of course, the most common controversy around Watashi ga Motenai no wa Dō Kangaetemo Omaera ga Warui!

And to a lesser degree, perhaps, Welcome to the NHK. Or 34-sai Mushoku-san which is about NEEKO 10 years down the line.

I find them all, especially Watamote, only possible to take in in small doses. Watamote in particular is hard to watch for a long stretch of time.

Wow, what's up with all these comedy mangas hitting real close to home lately?

I am more of the same opinion as Serenata, she seems to me less anxiety-ridden, and more like she wants to have it easy. There is some anxiety, indicated by the dream in chapter one, but it does not seem to be a prevalent factor. She is more preoccupied with wanting to play games, to say nothing about the fact she openly admits (to herself) she is glad she is not the one who has to go to work.

So, the whole society around Neeko tries to make her feel bad about being unable to find a job. And she does! But, actually, she probably shouldn't.

I have not noticed people, even her immediate family, give her a particularly hard time over it. In fact, she seems single-mindedly obsessed (without anyone rubbing her nose into it) how other people are moving forwards with their lives since high school, in various ways, and her sole reaction seems like a mixture of anger, irritation, and/or contempt directed towards them over this.

I also do not think this work is supposed to be an accurate representation of what is like to be a NEET, but eh, we shall see. Is only two chapters now.

And maybe that's the final message of Neeko : being a NEET is okay. You can play Video Games at home, or slave away as some random office lady, the net result for humanity will be the same. But in the latter case, you'll be a lot less happy

That is a horrible final message. Net result for humanity is always the same when we talk about individuals from what is essentially the lower end of society, the working classes. You can say that for literally anything and everything. It is not about the whole of humanity, it is about the people in the immediate vicinity. Since we do not live in the Star Trek universe, someone will have to work in order to provide for a NEET. Unless we are talking about rich families, in which case it really does not matter, being a NEET basically means leeching off of someone, and that someone does not have the luxury of not working (because they have to provide for themselves, possibly other family members as well, and the NEET).
That is not to say there are no cases of anxiety-ridden people, those who are genuinely in such a predicament because they have actual psychological problems, and in these cases, specialists and therapy should be made more readily available (and harmful stances, such as in Japan, where psychological issues are treated as a sort of taboo, should be combated), but still, saying "being a NEET is okay" is not terribly helpful either, in my opinion.

I can think of only two scenarios in which being a NEET is not problematic. One, if you are rich. Two, if you are from the working class, but have someone who is genuinely willing to work in order to provide for you, and sincerely does not hold it against you, and actually does not expect, or even want, for you to find a job (and let us be realistic here, does this sound like a typical human mindset?).

It's not easy to be Neeko in Japanese society.

As seen, the moment she tried to do anything: networking/recontacting friends, or even just going out shopping, she will start to be judged negatively by all of those around her. Confidence can easily be shattered that way. I expects that even if she managed to get to an interview, the first question will always be: 'why didn't you have job last year' and her work ethic and character will simply judged negatively regardless of her answers. No wonder a lots of people just become a NEET and try to avoid from society all together in this situation

The one way out is escaping to somewhere that no one know her and start slow with a part-time job. But that costs lots of money and does not look like her family can afford to.

The other way is, marrying someone who can afford her so she can put it as a front ( the whole, 'i'm a housewife') and ease it back to employment. But then she will need a hobby or family introduction at least. Not to mention the Christmas Cake thingy is ticking down on her.

last edited at Nov 21, 2017 5:45PM

Serenata posted:

I don't feel bad for her anymore haha, she just wants to have it easy.

I assume you haven't experienced severe anxiety? Cause it's pretty obvious she has some sort of legitimate anxiety issue rather than simply wanting to have it easy.

Thinking about it, isn't the idea here that we're supposed to find extreme anxiety funny?

Sounds kinda mean when you look at it that way.

Now that I think about it, a significant part of comedy is about finding other people's misfortunes to be funny. I don't know where most people draw the line, but it's probably okay to laugh when the misfortune can be easily overcome.

In Neeko's case, there's no telling whether she'll be able to overcome her social anxiety easily, but I think she has a pretty good chance since people around her seemed supportive.

This kind of makes me want to read Welcome to the NHK again. I personally feel somewhat close to Neeko, but I guess in the real world being a NEET is not as relaxing as it is portrayed in the manga.

I've spent 3.5 years being a NEET (the only reason it wasn't longer was because I had spent the few years before in university, so I had one of the E's), had problems with depression/anxiety, and it was like trying to dig yourself out of an ever-expanding hole. The problem is you had several problems interacting with each other and it formed a downward spiral that gained momentum every passing day. My mental condition would affect my sleep, which in turn makes serious work almost impossible, which then means no progress and further anxiety and even less sleep at night.

Eventually I found a combination of meds that worked for me after the so-called "med-go-round", when doctors prescribe random combinations of stuff and hope to find one that works (the meds were not random, but the effects were totally random). From there, I gradually started trying to find work again, but then I ran into social anxiety...

It wasn't obvious when I was spending most of my days at home, but not talking to people for a long time will make you... forget how. I had trouble meeting people's eyes when I talked. So after some thought I enrolled myself in school again: I figured I'd kill two birds with one stone, I can reconnect with society and learn to develop software at the same time. That was last year. And here we are at this point in time.

In a bit less than 6 months, hopefully I can find the job I've always wanted, and finally go from one of the E's to the other E. It will have taken 5 years to dig the hole, jump in and dig myself out, but I'm glad I did this instead of throwing myself down the 17th floor a few years back.

So what's my point of writing all this... I guess just to say that some people aren't choosing to be NEET.

Like Neeko, I played video games, read manga, watched TV shows and all that, but I did that because I needed the distraction, not because that's how I wanted to spend my day. I too wanted to go out and be an independent human being. Knowing it's a manga, hopefully Neeko has a better time than I did overcoming her adversity.

Poor Neeko. I understand all her pains.

Hit way too close to home.
I was a hikkikomori for 3 years (starting to want to actually end the hiki days after seeing frozen (lol)), before finishing my undergraduate study.
And afterwards I kinda got lazy? About finding a job.
Not to mention I'm a cake who is kinda short (152cm) and most job put very specific min height (155cm)

last edited at Nov 22, 2017 4:48AM

I may not relate to it but imagining the culture... Heck!that's really tough esp. in japan...

Ririka Kirishima posted:

Hit way too close to home.
I was a hikkikomori for 3 years (starting to want to actually end the hiki days after seeing frozen (lol)), before finishing my undergraduate study.

Sorry for touching a delicate subject but.... after seeing Frozen? you had a revelation from that movie?

Ririka Kirishima posted:

Hit way too close to home.
I was a hikkikomori for 3 years (starting to want to actually end the hiki days after seeing frozen (lol)), before finishing my undergraduate study.

Sorry for touching a delicate subject but.... after seeing Frozen? you had a revelation from that movie?

I am also curious.

[...] but I did that because I needed the distraction, not because that's how I wanted to spend my day.

In the end, isn't everything we do a distraction to forget the fact that we're all going to die one day? Including work? I guess the point is to chose/find which way you'd like to be distracted from that thought; hence why entertainment works so well everywhere. Is one way better than the other?

Some doesn't have the luxury to chose and have to deal with not dying on a daily basis, in my country we have the chance of not having too much thoughts on what and when are we going to eat. All that is thanks to everybody working to make the society better, but what if the job you're doing doesn't really contribute? Then you start thinking, you see no sense and no future in what you are doing, but.. when you're home, comfy and all, you're playing videogames, reading books, experiencing stuff, going out with friends, you're happy.

Of course, everybody has to play its parts for things to work out, but I can understand why people who can't find theirs in the grand scheme of things would want to at least feel happy a little bit. That said, I have the feelings I may be a bit too lenient generally, perhaps everything I said is mistaken.

last edited at Nov 22, 2017 10:53AM

Klice posted:

[...] but I did that because I needed the distraction, not because that's how I wanted to spend my day.

In the end, isn't everything we do a distraction to forget the fact that we're all going to die one day?

You are not trying to distract yourself from thought of dying one day though. You life is shit. You are useless. You can't do anything. You are worthless. You have no friends. You have no life. You are depressed as fuck. Just trying to think about all the crap that went wrong in your life and how to fix it for even few minutes will make you fail into downright spiral of getting more and more depressed and demotivated and most likely just end up deciding it is easier to commit suicide. You wouldn't even know where to start to fix your life anyway. So you choose to avoid thinking about it, because thinking only get you more depressed. So you find mindless things, that don't require effort to distract yourself and give you instant gratification and temporary happiness. It might even improve your mood for few hours! So yea, it's like few people pointed out here. You don't become NEET because you want to have it easy. You usually become NEET because you had some (or a lot of it) bad experience that made your life go wrong way and you hit the point where you can't bounce out so you just try to keep it together enough to not totally fail apart. It's definitely not happy, easy going existence. It is actually really shallow and leads nowhere. You use your entire energy to just keep on living.

I'm surprised Chiro knew Neeko was upset, considering her phone had to have broken before she tried to send the texts (Were they texts? I thought she was just thinking those last thoughts, anyway)...

I'm surprised Chiro knew Neeko was upset, considering her phone had to have broken before she tried to send the texts (Were they texts? I thought she was just thinking those last thoughts, anyway)...

She asked if Neeko married, and Neeko didn’t reply. So I guess she thought Neeko was angry and put her on ignore

last edited at Nov 22, 2017 10:50PM