Forum › The Useless Senpai and The Talented Kouhai discussion

I was expecting at the end for Kana to have returned and decided to help and havr caught them in the act.

joined Apr 27, 2017

Mochi

Must read.

Ss%20(2015-08-13%20at%2011.16.07)
joined Jul 3, 2015

Mochi taking the yuri goodness to a whole new level.

Image
joined Feb 23, 2016

Well..

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

It's kind of a weird thing to say, but I liked it because it was Mochi, not because it was a good story or I liked any of the characters.

Photo
joined Sep 4, 2016

This was great!

Screen%20shot%202022-12-24%20at%201.57.08%20am
joined Jun 11, 2016

It's not Mochi's best work but still, It kicks ass. Mochi has never made a bad doujin and I doubt she ever will.

Eat%20ass
joined Aug 18, 2015

It's kind of a weird thing to say, but I liked it because it was Mochi, not because it was a good story or I liked any of the characters.

I sort of know what you mean. Maybe in my case it's just a matter of liking the art.

On a different note: Are hugs really considered "skinship"? That seems really weird to me, but I'm a very huggy person I guess. I was under the impression skinship was more... erotic?

Alice Cheshire Moderator
Dynasty_misc015
joined Nov 7, 2014

SushiKnight posted:

On a different note: Are hugs really considered "skinship"? That seems really weird to me, but I'm a very huggy person I guess. I was under the impression skinship was more... erotic?

Skinship is close physical contact of really any sort. Holding hands, linking arms, hugging, etc. all count as skinship. It has nothing to do with anything erotic or sexual really.

Your_hair_has_gotten_longer_by_folksneedheroes-d5l5v69
joined Apr 23, 2015

a bit repetitive but I thought it was pretty good.

Afueee
joined Apr 5, 2013

It's kind of a weird thing to say, but I liked it because it was Mochi, not because it was a good story or I liked any of the characters.

I sort of know what you mean. Maybe in my case it's just a matter of liking the art.

On a different note: Are hugs really considered "skinship"? That seems really weird to me, but I'm a very huggy person I guess. I was under the impression skinship was more... erotic?

Eh, we're talking about Japan here. Pretty sure that standing at spitting distance is almost consider skinship.

I wonder if this works happens after or before Pranking the Prankster. Maybe this is before that and in that episode was were Kana discovered her love for Yuri.

Gits-innocence4
joined Sep 22, 2013

Regarding a certain dissenting view:

IMO!: It's a story about two juxtaposing outcasts being brought together by a mutual, gentle empathy. And not about, say, I dunno... what some may interpret to be a sociopath that uses high-school power-dynamics to manipulate a classmate into submission. Which is sad. : C

Empathy, yo'. Gotta cross-reference character with what appears to be the author's intent.

El examplé: I felt the most important lines were on p. 11/12
Khouhai: 'I'm sad.'
Senpair: 'A-about what?'
Khouhai: 'About everything!'

If the story were told from Khouhai's perspective it would revolve around how she is unhappy and feels isolated, but is both motivated and pleased by Senpai's perseverance - yet, unbeknownst to her, the Senpai feels much the same way. In the end the pair are brought together by that which causes their respective unhappiness: The Senpai that's so bad she's bullied into quitting is encouraged to stay and be coached by the talented Khouhai that feels removed from her peers.

Ultimately the Khouhai remains cold and anti-social, the Senpai insecure and lacking confidence - but the narrative suggests, in amongst all their unhappiness, they've each found a personal sense of acceptance and understanding in one another's flaws and kindness. +Yuri. Which is nice. : )

[Also: One cannot offer a dissenting opinion and, in turn, resentfully dismiss a further dissenting opinion on one's own dissent. That, yo', leads to arrogant hypocrisy.]

Cool%20shit
joined May 7, 2017

(Screams, gunshots, crying)
I sleep.
(Mochi au lait)
REAL SHIT
(One shot)
ASCENDED

Sayaka_ava
joined Nov 23, 2014

@Navidson92 No need to be coy, you can address me directly.

To clarify a bit, with power dynamics I was referring to the situation inside the club specifically, and nowhere do I recall linking this to sociopathic behavior so kindly do not put words into my mouth. As others have pointed out after me, kouhai came of as forceful and did exploit senpai's weakness, certainly. Now that may have indeed been with purely good intentions, one might argue that all is fair in love and war after all so this ultimately may not have been a bad thing at all. Just on a very personal level, at least on first read, this just did not quite sit right with me and that sparked my initial comment on this manga being a dud, i.e. falling flat for me. And that is that, really.

[Also: One cannot offer a dissenting opinion and, in turn, resentfully dismiss a further dissenting opinion on one's own dissent. That, yo', leads to arrogant hypocrisy.]

Okay, so what happened was that my short comment was somehow taken as a statement of fact, an accusation which I defended against and went on to clarify my stance. I then sarcastically remarked how similarly curt but opposing views escaped such scrutiny. I admit I may have been overly passive-aggressive with that, but nowhere do I recall dismissing other peoples' views on this manga or their enjoyment of it, the only thing I resented that anyone else here said was when I was told "use IMO, yo".

In fact, yours is a very valid interpretation of the story and I thank you for sharing it. I still do not particularly like the it or the characters, but at least I can think better of the work in general. I can completely see why others like the usual Mochi elements that are on display here as they are in their other works, it was just the package they were presented in this time that did not appeal to me personally. It did to others such as yourself and that is perfectly fine.

This somehow became a much larger thing than I expected, and if I came across as arrogant and dismissive then I assure you it was not my intention and I apologize. Thank you again for your insight!

edited to add...

It's kind of a weird thing to say, but I liked it because it was Mochi, not because it was a good story or I liked any of the characters.

This is actually an interesting thought as well, I can totally see it. I think in my case the "mochiness" just did not quite overtake the other elements.

last edited at Jun 25, 2017 5:10AM

Fcolu7zauaqic2k
joined Sep 14, 2015

Hey, those bullies are from Pranking the Pranker

joined Feb 14, 2016

so kindly do not put words into my mouth.
As others have pointed out after me

Wow it is almost like they were addressing everyone and not just you. Crazy concept

Sayaka_ava
joined Nov 23, 2014

so kindly do not put words into my mouth.
As others have pointed out after me

Wow it is almost like they were addressing everyone and not just you. Crazy concept

I suppose that is a possibility, then again they used the same phrasing I myself did earlier so I would argue the jury is still out on that. I am sure they can clear this up themselves though, I know I criticized what one might call a sacred cow on this site, but there is no need to get so upset about it.

Divalshfgd_400x400
joined Jan 18, 2017

I really don't like stories like this. You see it in cis stories too. Some cute girl somehow falls in love with someone who constantly insults them. That's not love.

Animeyuridanshismall
joined Apr 25, 2014

eh, i didnt really see it as insulting her. kouhai is just hella straightforward and calls everything as it is.

Alice Cheshire Moderator
Dynasty_misc015
joined Nov 7, 2014

Yuri Guy posted:

eh, i didnt really see it as insulting her. kouhai is just hella straightforward and calls everything as it is.

Straightforward and overly blunt. She's kinda insensitive but it's pretty clear she's not actually insulting her.

Reo
joined Feb 4, 2016

Can this be considered sort a like Manzai? Which the senpai would be the "boke" and Tsukioka would be the "tsukkomi"? Tsukioka is just pointing out the mistakes of senpai. It's better to hear the truth than to hear false sympathy. I can not really see that as insults... Insult is more like: "You stupid idiot! Just piss off already! No one wants you around!"

Alice Cheshire Moderator
Dynasty_misc015
joined Nov 7, 2014

komugi posted:

Tsukioka is just pointing out the mistakes of senpai. It's better to hear the truth than to hear false sympathy. I can not really see that as insults... Insult is more like: "You stupid idiot! Just piss off already! No one wants you around!"

For whatever reason people seem to really struggle to differentiate between criticism and insults. Especially towards a character or person they like.

Reo
joined Feb 4, 2016

For whatever reason people seem to really struggle to differentiate between criticism and insults. Especially towards a character or person they like.

You're right, that's pretty much it...

Untitled%203
joined Feb 3, 2013

Didn't really like this one very much. It feels like the kouhai exploited the sempai's insecurities in the same way as everyone else, but we're suppose to turn a blind eye to it since she had romantic purposes.

last edited at Nov 22, 2018 5:51AM

Icon
joined Jul 6, 2018

This thing is dead but I feel like she didn't really insult her like the other girls were doing. She was just stating the facts and she never called her a burden or that she should quit the club. She even offered to help her and everything. I feel like that kouhai told her things like she's slow so that she could have an excuse to spend more time with her after school while everyone else was gone too

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