That's too simple. Very well could be an option, but as far as I'm concerned if Hotaru eventually does get Yuma in a clear way, she'll chill with the control. I don't think she herself is an emotional manipulator, or for that matter is particularly trying. She just is doing what she wants in desperation.

and

Abusive is a bit of a leap.

Right now? Yes, but i can see it happening later. The one time Yumas puts up resistance and slaps Hotaru, she turns it around immediately and puts all the blame on Yuma, because there is just no way she could ever "abuse" her, if she didn't wanted it to happen. Sounded like a classic abuser tactic.
If they get together and everything is fine? Both will be happy. But if an argument/jealousy comes up I'm pretty sure Hotaru would use her skills to controll Yuma in some way, depending on how insecure she is about the relationsship and Yumas feelings. If Hotarus believes she only got Yuma into a relationship through her tricks and manipulation, can she ever be sure that Yuma loves her and will stay with her if she stops manipulating her? But that is all a big What if? about how it could develop from her "little" manipulation. It could also end with sunshine and rainbows.
So right now i would say that she isn't abusive yet, but she's going into a dangerous direction.

... The injured eye was all part of her plan?

Her Relationship with Fujiwara allows her to collect all sorts of ammunition she can use against Yuma later. Will be interessting to see if she will guilt trip Yuma over this stuff or if she will simply fish for some emotional reaction. In this sense he is playing into her hand. Just like the cheating. He is cheating with some girl so it's ok if Hotaru cheats with Yuma and Hotaru doesn't have to pretend that this stuff is something harmless (relationship wise).
She had other boyfriends before and so far it seems her only reasons for having boyfriends (besides maybe forgetting about/getting over yuma) are to use them to get a reaction from Yuma + an easy excuse for double dates. Because it would be kinda odd if she always played the third wheel at those dates. Otherwise she could have easily ditched him and get a new one. But she keeps him. She knows what she's doing (to some degree at least).

Frankly, I do not believe that Hotaru's manipulation would work on anyone except Yuma, and that is because Yuma lets herself be manipulated as a convenient excuse.

Yeah, probably not. That's why i called her an emotional manipulator. She can't go around manipulating strangers to her liking. She needs some positve emotional connection to do this stuff. And Yuma has some feelings for her but there is also friendship. She is using the existing connection (friendship) and is pushing the bounds to see how far she can go while still saying (or more like implying) that all of this is somehow still a part of their friendship and nothing too serious. Confusing the (naive?) target always helps.

Just like what Hotaru said a chapter before, she barely has any strenght to force Yuma, but only succeeds because Yuma puts zero resistance.

Like i said above: that sounds like an classic abuser excuse. Because only the physical strong can ever abuse someone and those who don't put up any physical resistance want it, only that this isn't true. And again, I don't want to say she already is an full grown abuser, just that she's very manipulativ and treading close to the line and could cross into abuser territory later on.

Sure, I might be giving to much credit to Hotaru for planing all this stuff instead of going by instinct or something, but it's more interessting to read this way.

Good God ......really??? what is this? an mystery manga + yuri or something??? you guys need to chill out with this thing "Manipulativ Master Hotaru" you just made HER into the MOST MANIPULATIVE PERSON ON EARTH.....like who will EVER do that? and you can clearly see that Hotaru isn't manipulativ...she is just cheating and teasing Yuma and Yuma has nothing against it , like you are giving to much credits to Hotaru for PLANING THE HOLE THING and forgetting how confuse and stupid is Yuma . it's like you guys are saying that Horror and Comedy are one and the same thing........O.o "facepalm"

I really like your comment :). And this is also kinda why I included my last sentence. I know this story is probably not supposed to be read that way, but I like that I can read it this way. It's more interesting/fun for me like that. Just another perspective and maybe someone else enjoys it like this as well. Or no one does, no problem.
Still, it's a nice thing to be able to talk about such possibilities like how something can be viewed as very harmless or very dark or something inbetween.

I just prefer to see her behavior as something darker and with more intent on her part.

Why is everyone calling this manga stupid?

＞"Hurr Durr, it's stupid because I don't like it."

This is the reason people are calling it stupid.

All you people talking about how Fujiwara blackmailed Hotaru into sex in this chapter need to re-read the chapter. Hotaru agreed to have sex with him because she was jealous of seeing Yuma and Takeda together. Fujiwara only reveals he knew about them kissing after they had sex. I'm not trying to defend what him I'm just saying she willingly agreed making it consensual. All we can say is love makes people do stupid things

Please he clearly told her something she was not happy about, i mean just read her expression, i bet he said something like 'Or do you want me to tell Yuma how you really feel about her' or 'Or are you actually in love with Yuma and is that why you don't want to do things with me?' or 'Or do you want me to tell Takeda about you two kissing?' or anyways something she didn't want the others to hear.... There's no other way she'd have an expression like that on her face.
Also, there's no way Hotaru is jealous about seeing Yuma and Takeda together. If anything she's depressed and sad about seeing her life-long love Yuma playing so lovingly with some boy. The reason she looked at them like that is probably because she was thinking something along the lines of "If Yuma-chan finds out how i feel about her now, she'll be freaked out and we won't be friends anymore etc." or "She's so happy with Takeda-kun, i've tried for so long but she just doesn't feel the same way about me sigh (she so totally does though), i give up." or "I really don't want Yuma to find out how i feel before i'm sure she's in love with me too. I mean just look how happy she is with Takeda, i've tried so many things but she just won't fall in love with me... Maybe if i do it with Fujiwara, i'll get her to feel jealous or set something off within her... I have nothing to lose so i might as well try it..."
Or a combination of those... Anyways, Fujiwara blackmailed Hotaru, or at least pushed her into it in some way, though i have to admit, eventually she also did it willingly for a small part, but still.
And he did reveal that he knew they kissed after the sex scene to us, but that doesn't mean anything, i mean when he told Hotaru he had seen it, she didn't look surprised at all, which means she probably already knew he knew, meaning he had told her what he saw before.

I'd imagine this series will end with the guys getting dumped, huh.

Is her eye injury supposed to happen when Fujiwara tells her to go home, or before? It doesn't look like he hit her or anything, just probably tossed something at her that hit her?

In any case, both Fujiwara and Hotaru appear to be pretty worthless as humans beings. Yuma needs to tell Hotaru that she won't be a "cheating partner". She will either be a partner or a friend, if neither of those are options, then they will be neighbors and that is all. In other words, she needs to tell her how she felt when she saw her with Fujiwara on the trip!

Huh. How did she get that eye injury?

Huh. How did she get that eye injury?

guy probably tried to lick it

last edited at Aug 10, 2015 3:46PM

Is her eye injury supposed to happen when Fujiwara tells her to go home, or before? It doesn't look like he hit her or anything, just probably tossed something at her that hit her?

He hit her during sex or whatever it was before that scene.

In any case, both Fujiwara and Hotaru appear to be pretty worthless as humans beings. Yuma needs to tell Hotaru that she won't be a "cheating partner". She will either be a partner or a friend, if neither of those are options, then they will be neighbors and that is all. In other words, she needs to tell her how she felt when she saw her with Fujiwara on the trip!

Well, actually Yuma is Hotaru's "cheating partner" from the start. She is pretty dense, so she didn't know that what she was doing with Hotaru is cheating. Probably, because she thought that flirting and kissing with a girl doesn't count. Overall, you can interpret last page of chapter 5 as Hotaru's twisted love confession.

Well. People seem to have put out most of the plausible reads on the characters, and there's a fair range that's defensible. Hope nobody minds if I add one more redundant batch to the mix.
Okay, so Takeda, not the most amazingly awesome significant other ever, but I can see where he could be coming from. How to put it . . . if Yuma was just being scared to have sex with him, avoiding her after would be a dick move. But if I were him, that's not what I'd be thinking; I'd be thinking there was something else wrong. He doesn't have much to go on, but the way she acted towards him was not like someone who's totally into you but just doesn't want to go that far yet. Something is off and he sensed it, and he seems like a fairly diffident, shy kind of guy so he doesn't know what to do or say next.

Hotaru . . . Well, she is manipulative somewhat. She's not a master manipulator, if anything she's a manipulator less because she's good at manipulation than because she's just piss-poor at straightforwardness. She's deathly afraid Yuma's assumption that het is all that exists would doom her to failure if she just said "I love you", and maybe she's just plain cowardly about expressing emotion honestly. So, she's trying to manipulate Yuma into physically leaving the friendzone enough that she's forced to confront other possibilities. It's all pretty hamfisted and half-backfiring, especially the stuff with the boyfriends and jealousy play and whatever. She'd be way better off not getting a boyfriend in the first place and just seducing Yuma with similar "practice" excuses but without the twisted crap. So I wouldn't say she's either that great at the manipulation or, in a way, really in control of it--part of it is a kind of lashing out. She loves Yuma but she's also mad at her for being so thick and making her despair of getting her, so she's fucking with her out of rage. But it's also rage at her own weakness as much as anything; at some level she has to know full well that she might be way better off if she'd just confessed straightforwardly. And as someone who seems to have been indulging in casual sex with people she cares nothing for, she of all people must know that luring Yuma into sex in ways that make Yuma resent her probably isn't great for the prospects of Yuma actually loving her. But she isn't strong enough to take the risk of doing the best thing so she falls back on all this stuff. It's just lucky for her that Yuma, under all the cluelessness, has the hots for her and probably loves her to a point well beyond reason and will accept her no matter how bad she screws up.

As to Fujiwara, I don't think he has anything much on Hotaru. He's a creep, but a fairly casual one IMO. They may be making mutual use of one another, but I don't think he's blackmailing her, or in a positon to blackmail her. She's had plenty of other guys and she could dump him in a minute if she wanted to. No, my suspicion is what he said to her was basically "Say, wanna go screw? We can make it obvious to make that girl you're into jealous, whaddya say?" . . . Maybe I'm overstating. I wouldn't be massively surprised if he was blackmailing her, threatening to blow open her thing for Yuma before she's ready. But I can see a scenario of more consensual cynical give and take being as plausible. I also doubt that's the first time they'd slept together.

Yuma herself? Nice enough, a bit thick, kind of wimpy. Is she worth all of Hotaru's obsession? Well, they do have their history and all, Yuma has always stuck up for Hotaru when nobody else would.

As a side note, do we know for sure that Hotaru's eye is actually injured? Probably it is, but it could also be a sympathy ploy and her eye is just fine.

last edited at Aug 10, 2015 4:21PM

Personally, i think that Hotaru isn't bad as everyone think she is - i somehow can't understand why most likely everyone's hating her...her character is somehow refreshing, and it seems like she's somewhat smart - she wouldn't just "manipulate" Yuma for fun, or whatever...but i do think, that she kinda wants to make Yuma thinks more about it - also "sexual harassing" her first to see her reaction, and whem Yuma is getting used to it, maybe it wouldn't surprise her anymore that much, if Hotaru would confess to her.Nothingless, i think that something's off with Fujiwara and Hotaru..but what? Hotaru just don't break up with him - but still have sex.She perfectly knows that he's cheating on her - and she's using it for her own way.It's like, she uses him and he uses her - for her, Fujiwara is just a tool - but not for jealously...Yuma wouldn't get jealously over their relationship - beside when Hotaru did it with Fujiwara and Yuma got somehow angry.What's her real intention? Why does Hotaru sometimes have this dark, hurt expression? THIS MANGA IS A BUNCH OF MYSTERIES AND I CAN'T WAIT GODDAMIT! Is he abusing her??? Goddamit...we'll have to wait, and i'm certain: it will have a completely twist.

Btw, i don't think that her eye isn't injured to just get symphaty points from Yuma.She even hold her one eye when Fujiwara tossed the shirt at her.I think that he hurt her - or it could be someone else but i doubt that.Well, we'll see.

"I fell down the stairs, honestly!"
Other excuses would be hit yourself on the door and accidently tripped on some dirt outside.

This has been your terrible excuses to cover up your horrible abusive relationships daily.

PurpleLibraryGuy

Everyone just read his comment. He nailed this whole juncture with respect to realistic moderation pretty spot on.

Personally I'll still see Fujiwara as a douchenozzle only because of the vibe I'm getting from 'im. But he's completely correct about how Hotaru is being manipulative without particularly trying to be malicious. She's just afeared and letting her doubts run her actions.

I'm not feeling bad for Takeda because all the time he is "I want sex", he doesn't look like he is really in love.

... And Yuma is so stupid ._.

Actually, Takeda's really cool. And he's totally the most gentlemanly bruh in the series. He didn't always focus on sex. He's shy and really awkward, so he's leagues better than Fujiwara. Plus in the end, he didn't hurt Yuma by doing it with her on the latter's impulse. I don't know bout you, but I would totally go for her, but no. He didn't. He's nice like that. I wouldn't even mind if Yuma gets an ending with him.

Though we all know it's gonna be a bad ending.

I don't think he is bad, only he is not in love.

And what he did is what all must do, not something heroic.

Hotaru really likes Fujiwara, but their relationship is destructive, as he keeps cheating on her and treating her badly.
That's why Hotaru is trying seduce Yuma in order to get back at Fujiwara and find some recomfort, but in reality doesn't love her in a romantic way (she probably isn't gay).
Meanwhile, Yuma discovers she actually likes girls and falls in love with Hotaru. She doesn't get nearly as much pleasure kissing Takeda as kissing with Hotaru.

That's my take on the story so far, this series is getting better and better, can't wait for the next chapter. :D

Hotaru really likes Fujiwara, but their relationship is destructive, as he keeps cheating on her and treating her badly.
That's why Hotaru is trying seduce Yuma in order to get back at Fujiwara and find some recomfort, but in reality doesn't love her in a romantic way (she probably isn't gay).
Meanwhile, Yuma discovers she actually likes girls and falls in love with Hotaru. She doesn't get nearly as much pleasure kissing Takeda as kissing with Hotaru.

That's my take on the story so far, this series is getting better and better, can't wait for the next chapter. :D

'-'

You're a troll right?

last edited at Aug 11, 2015 9:53AM

PurpleLibraryGuy

Everyone just read his comment. He nailed this whole juncture with respect to realistic moderation pretty spot on.

Personally I'll still see Fujiwara as a douchenozzle only because of the vibe I'm getting from 'im. But he's completely correct about how Hotaru is being manipulative without particularly trying to be malicious. She's just afeared and letting her doubts run her actions.

+1 100%
There's nothing to add except that I don't think this is her first abusive relationship. It's known that when Hotaru was younger she was shy but then started dating early so she probably has had a lot of relationships like her current one with Fujiwara without knowing how to get out of it.

Hotaru really likes Fujiwara, but their relationship is destructive, as he keeps cheating on her and treating her badly.
That's why Hotaru is trying seduce Yuma in order to get back at Fujiwara and find some recomfort, but in reality doesn't love her in a romantic way (she probably isn't gay).
Meanwhile, Yuma discovers she actually likes girls and falls in love with Hotaru. She doesn't get nearly as much pleasure kissing Takeda as kissing with Hotaru.

That's my take on the story so far, this series is getting better and better, can't wait for the next chapter. :D

'-'

You're a troll right?

No I'm not D:
Yuma mentions several times that Hotaru has had many boyfriends in the past, which makes me thinks she is just fooling around with Yuma and would rather be in a relationship with a boy.
Also the author made clear that Hotaru likes Fujiwara, otherwise, why would she want to LIVE in his appartment, to the point where even has to throw her away to make her to leave? That being said, I don't think Hotaru enjoys their relationship, because Fujiwara is being abusive, but that's a completely different matter.

Yuma mentions several times that Hotaru has had many boyfriends in the past, which makes me thinks she is just fooling around with Yuma and would rather be in a relationship with a boy.
Also the author made clear that Hotaru likes Fujiwara, otherwise, why would she want to LIVE in his appartment, to the point where even has to throw her away to make her to leave? That being said, I don't think Hotaru enjoys their relationship, because Fujiwara is being abusive, but that's a completely different matter.

There's no indication that she actually likes Fujiwara. We don't really know why she stays with him, or obeys him.

Hotaru really likes Fujiwara, but their relationship is destructive, as he keeps cheating on her and treating her badly.
That's why Hotaru is trying seduce Yuma in order to get back at Fujiwara and find some recomfort, but in reality doesn't love her in a romantic way (she probably isn't gay).
Meanwhile, Yuma discovers she actually likes girls and falls in love with Hotaru. She doesn't get nearly as much pleasure kissing Takeda as kissing with Hotaru.

That's my take on the story so far, this series is getting better and better, can't wait for the next chapter. :D

Either we read two entirely different stories or I missed something while I was reading when was there any indication that Hotaru liked Fujidouchenozzle? She had boyfriends in the past sure but this could be to cover up that fact that she likes Yuma.

This cover trope has happened in other Yuri manga I've read years ago. Girls date guys to suppress the feelings they have for their friends so they could try to be more "normal". So this could be in effect with Hotaru/Fujidouchenozzle so I don't think she loves him at all.

No I'm not D:
Yuma mentions several times that Hotaru has had many boyfriends in the past, which makes me thinks she is just fooling around with Yuma and would rather be in a relationship with a boy.
Also the author made clear that Hotaru likes Fujiwara, otherwise, why would she want to LIVE in his appartment, to the point where even has to throw her away to make her to leave? That being said, I don't think Hotaru enjoys their relationship, because Fujiwara is being abusive, but that's a completely different matter.

Call me crazy but I was under the impression the author was hinting Hotaru had something for Yuma what with all the... everything in the manga, but hey, I suppose in a manga where half the readers think she's Satan, why not?

I just want to know something.

How can some people dislike Takeda for "only wanting sex" (yet he's always backed off after seeing Yuma uncomfortable), but be fine with Hotaru, who has outright been sexually assaulting Yuma?

Near nobody dislikes Takeda. Some people hero worship him, and others are indifferent. These are the prevailing attitudes towards him from what I've seen.

I just want to know something.

How can some people dislike Takeda for "only wanting sex" (yet he's always backed off after seeing Yuma uncomfortable), but be fine with Hotaru, who has outright been sexually assaulting Yuma?

We don't particularly dislike Takeda, he's just not a good boyfriend.

Hotaru is far more complicated. She has clearly done a lot more for Yuma over the years, and their relationship is deep and beyond it. I'm no more okay with her actions than I am with Takeda's. Takeda's actually been the better of the two from a purely on-paper perspective. But, of course, things go way beyond what source code stipulates.

Hotaru's definitely making her childhood friend think she's just using her to get even with her cheating bf... O_o

I don't think she's lying about the cheating part, but also think she's not exactly telling the truth either. You know how most need an excuse for why they do things in order to cover up what they're really doing.