Lilification posted:

God you are so fucking insufferable that it's a miracle no one else has called you out on your horseshit. Do you get like this when someone talks about a character not explicitly stated to be a lesbian is called a lesbian? Do you get this pedantic about subtext? Why the fuck is "UM, AKSHUALLY THEY NEVER SAID THEY'RE TRANS OR (whatever fucking label)" your hill to die on?

Keep the ad-hominem off this forum.

Answer the question. What's your deal with someone saying a character is trans? Why do you treat it as if it's some grave sin to call a character who is shown being uncomfortable with their assigned gender trans? When someone sees the character's story and, being trans themselves, relates to it and interprets the character as trans, why do you feel the need to jump in to correct them?

And lemme pre-empt that "Forcing a label on them they don't identify as is rude.You're free to think they're trans, but the tag/label shouldn't set it in stone." garbage you tried to pull earlier: they are a fictional character. They're not going to be offended for being called trans since they literally do not exist outside of the story.

Or you can not answer and fuck off, I'd take that too.

Other people could relate to that very same character and feel uncomfortable being called trans by proxy.

For me, Ren's character is written as being uncomfortable with being assigned a gender, or being expected to act a certain way, wear certain clothes or have a certain voice. And if you read the small character in the pages of chapter 4, you'd see that people keep asking them "do you know the term x-gender?" or "Are you going to get surgery?". Well intentioned people piling up pressure on them to conform to "something". Which is something that some people may relate to and which you are, in my opinion, participating into.

Anyway, I'll stop this conversation, because you're veering into being grossly insulting to someone you know nothing about and seem to be unable to keep this civil. Just ignore me from now on.

Other people could relate to that very same character and feel uncomfortable being called trans by proxy.

For me, Ren's character is written as being uncomfortable with being assigned a gender, or being expected to act a certain way, wear certain clothes or have a certain voice. And if you read the small character in the pages of chapter 4, you'd see that people keep asking them "do you know the term x-gender?" or "Are you going to get surgery?". Well intentioned people piling up pressure on them to conform to "something". Which is something that some people may relate to and which you are, in my opinion, participating into.

Anyway, I'll stop this conversation, because you're veering into being grossly insulting to someone you know nothing about and seem to be unable to keep this civil. Just ignore me from now on.

Then they could discuss it, they don't need someone jumping in to defend them, they can do it themselves. Don't infantilize people like that.

So, it's fine for you to interpret Ren your way, but if someone else has an interpretation that has them thinking and expressing that they might be trans, you're gonna be a pedant about it? You're going to start splitting hairs on terminology and complaining about labels? What makes your interpretation fine but theirs requires you to step in to defend a fictional character from being labeled by readers?

And please, the most "grossly insulting" I've been so far is calling you insufferable. From my point of view, the fact that you seem so insistent about avoiding labeling something as trans is something that in my eyes tells me you're probably either transphobic or toeing the line of it.

Ah, that was so nice. ^_^

Ah, that was so nice. ^_^

That's your normal line but here it's unintentionally funny given everything else lol

Looks like they hit the jackpot.

Ah, that was so nice. ^_^

That's your normal line but here it's unintentionally funny given everything else lol

Oh, I know, I realized that quite well when I posted this. But on the other hand, I thought it better to just not comment any further on that particular topic, especially when things were already quieting down again, so there wasn't much more to add either. :D

Other people could relate to that very same character and feel uncomfortable being called trans by proxy.

And do you genuinely not see how transphobic it is not to want to be associated with trans people in any way? Imagine if someone said this about being gay and feeling uncomfortable being called gay by proxy. Or any other minority. Don't you think there's some questioning to be done on why something like that would make someone uncomfortable if they supposedly have nothing against trans people? Do you think it's okay when people rid themselves of anything feminine because they could possibly be associated with women, which is something that happens in the real world and we see all the ways it makes people suffer? Obviously you don't, so why do trans people get to be treated like that?

For me, Ren's character is written as being uncomfortable with being assigned a gender, or being expected to act a certain way, wear certain clothes or have a certain voice.

You described a non-binary trans person.

And if you read the small character in the pages of chapter 4, you'd see that people keep asking them "do you know the term x-gender?" or "Are you going to get surgery?". Well intentioned people piling up pressure on them to conform to "something".

With the context of the pages (1, 2, 3) those are absolutely not well intentioned people, but people being invasive about Ren's body and treating them as something exotic that would obviously want to make bodily alterations 'expected' of someone (strange) like them, and thinking that Ren would be willing to share something so personal about their body, because they are not seen as a person, but an exotic thing anyone has the right to know about... just like trans people irl.
And even though Ren is not transfem, if we're talking about surgery, transfems are a good example of this with of how people act entitled to knowing about if they have plans for getting SRS or about their genitals in general, when that's something absolutely personal and a form of sexual harassment.

So what you did is, you saw a sequence portraying the invasiveness of people treating the character as Exotic because they don't see them as human, who were able to tell there was something about them before Ren themself could understand it, all while they weren't ready to consider that they could be something other than an "anomaly"... and you read that as people being too "supportive" and pushing them into a box—and then shoved trans users who identified with the character, who were also likely victims of the same dehumanizing treatment, into the same category as characters harassing Ren.
And that's not even mentioning the explicitly transphobic things Ren was being called and told.

NOTHING on that page was meant positively.

i think it's a good idea to examine the work through the themes and tropes it's using, in this case. feeling unsafe and excluded from public bathrooms is a commonly discussed experience for trans people, and closely associated with that. if there was ambiguity before, imo that solidifies that ren is being written as some kind of trans character. the author is deliberately evoking things associated with being trans and showing how deeply uncomfortable ren is, both in their own body and in how others perceive them. if the author was going for a GNC angle, it wouldn't focus this heavily on the dysphoria ren is going through, imo. it's important to remember that this is a story and it'll use common cultural cues as shorthand for conveying things. that's how stories work.

aaanyway, is anyone else concerned about their potential pro debut when matsuri has all those skeletons in her closet? because that feels very imminent and very bad lol

aaanyway, is anyone else concerned about their potential pro debut when matsuri has all those skeletons in her closet? because that feels very imminent and very bad lol

This is what pen names are for...

aaanyway, is anyone else concerned about their potential pro debut when matsuri has all those skeletons in her closet? because that feels very imminent and very bad lol

This is what pen names are for...

i hope that works. it's unfortunately pretty common nowadays for pseudonyms etc to be exposed, like (not my scene but) in the vtuber sphere. if someone has a reason to dig into who she is, it could end VERY badly.

i am also kind of concerned about the actual editor(?) recruiting them. is she going to do a background check?

I have to admit too that the page about Ren didn't know what to choose to go for a bathroom is quite depressing..

Usually there will be a third toilet that allows for the disabled or unisex. It's in the middle.

I have to admit too that the page about Ren didn't know what to choose to go for a bathroom is quite depressing..

Usually there will be a third toilet that allows for the disabled or unisex. It's in the middle.

I don't know about Japan, but this is definitely not usual where I am from, sadly.

i should've checked here before making yet another transgender tag change suggestion... didn't know there was any discussion on it. sorry moderators.

anywayyyssss..
So happy they've caught the eyes of an editorial :0 !

last edited at May 23, 2026 9:31PM

I have to admit too that the page about Ren didn't know what to choose to go for a bathroom is quite depressing..

Usually there will be a third toilet that allows for the disabled or unisex. It's in the middle.

I'm not sure where that COMITIA was meant to be held, but that's not how it works at Tokyo Big Sight – there are women's and men's bathrooms, and that's it. Also, using the bathrooms at Tokyo Big Sight sucks for everybody. The bathrooms are in weird locations, they're not particularly large given the scale of the event, and I've never found one that's accessible that's not a portapotty outside. It is a hope of mine that this will be fixed by the renovations that the complex is going through now. And that they add some of the "family" restrooms that are now ubiquitous in urban train stations. Both unisex accessible bathrooms and family bathrooms are so much more common than they were when I first went to Japan, and they've been a lifesaver for me.

I will say that Ren's struggles in this chapter instantly made them far more relatable to me, as I have had to spend far too much time at Comiket thinking about bathrooms and generally not feeling good about my choices. I've definitely ended up walking most of the way around the East Hall looking for a bathroom that doesn't have a line of dudes running out of it (as I lack the courage, as a balding enby, to even attempt a women's bathroom in Japan).

I don't want to engage in Discourse™ too much, but I will say that while we haven't been given a clear or final indication as to how Ren thinks about gender labels and what labels do or do not apply to them, I feel very comfortable labeling Ren as trans. When it comes down to it, "trans" just means a more expansive conception of gender that encompasses more than the cisheteronormative framework most of us were raised within. Ren may think of Ren as a boy, a girl, a nonbinary entity, agender, or simply refuse to be bound by gender at all, but regardless, Ren is clearly uncomfortable just inhabiting the space that other people assume or assign Ren into.

last edited at May 25, 2026 5:56AM

I'm not sure where that COMITIA was meant to be held

Oh duh, the end page is a drawing of Tokyo Big Sight (I mean, I don't think there are that many conference venues in Japan with ceilings that high, but COMITIA is held all over the place, so I didn't want to assume).

These two are all but ready for life as a manga pro

just add the tag. its exhausting to see this dance again for literally the trans identity people love to go "Nuh-uh, [transfem] character could be this identity (that im conveniently not counting as trans, either)1!1!!" it is literally an umbrella term. again its this phenomenon of weirdly choosing when to treat fictional characters as real people at the same time the author is being treated as a fictional character whose intentions are totally open to interpretation. theres very clear choices made by the author that are contextualizing a trans reading being made repeatedly.

It's just transphobia, but they think we can't notice what's quietly being said behind the guise of "protecting" the comfort of non-binary people—people who had and still have the idea that they aren't trans like the others used to keep them from being able to access community, HRT and surgeries, and you'll also see specifically non-binary transfems often shoving themselves into a strict woman category so they aren't treated as men-lite, but still have their status as non-binary denied by other trans people—possibly being associated with transness, like they aren't included inside it by default.
But no matter how much you state what the work itself already makes explicitly clear, there'll always be someone doing a disservice to non-binary people as a whole by arguing about what it could mean to people on an individual level (and no questioning of why the discomfort with being associated with trans as a concept) when it's a social group-level category that says nothing about your identity on a personal level.

If people still keep trying to deny Ren being trans after what they see happening later on, the only way to describe that reaction is transphobia through the purposeful denial of the trans themes.

And if anyone wants to be spoiled and know the scene that makes it absolutely explicit, for context yes, Ren wears a binder, so at that point it's clear they have chest dysphoria, and Matsuri says something (it's been months since I read it so I won't be able to say what exactly, sorry, but iirc she does notice the difference in volume) that makes Ren uncomfortable, so they end up running away, showering somewhere else and start punching their chest and also later they're misgendered by Matsuri's ex-husband, who was also being misogynistic, and is visibly uncomfortable, but she stands up for them.