I may be a writer, but even I was impressed by LiLa's essay. If I was your teacher I'd have given that an A+!

That being said, one thing that still surprises me is how patient Sakurako has been this whole time. With how slow Kasumi is taking those steps, I was prepared - maybe as early as Chapter 20 - for Sakurako to push a bit harder to make their relationship more solid. But, as you said, her fears of losing Kasumi to even the smallest perceived things made her hold her ground, and that is what helped keep Kasumi by her side this whole time. If their relationship was a gas in the beginning, it's almost a solid by now - "almost" - and I do hope they make it official at some point.

In all honesty, a series like this is precisely what the yuri genre has always needed. It's truly a platinum-ringed diamond in a sea of fluff.

Might have missed a few crucial points myself, as I wrote this with a massive headache, but I still root for these girls to reach that beautiful wedding day!

last edited at Jan 6, 2022 6:36PM

All I can add to this conversation is my own broad strokes of how I feel about labels. I personally think it's silly to be so averse to them, labels are descriptive not prescriptive, they don't tell you what to do they simply provide a name for the already present traits. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc.

What can be read as Sakurako being anxious about losing Kasumi, I've read as being in disbelief that she's been so lucky to have found Kasumi. That moment in Hawaii is one example of these different readings.

I do not want to reduce your post to this statement, I just don't have anything to disagree with for the rest of what you said. But this part, I think, is not as up to interpretation as you believe.

I would be hard pressed to say Sakurako being nearly stalkerish and desperate to go to the same university, the same course, the same job as Kasumi are signs of her "disbelief that's she's been lucky to have found Kasumi". She also was the one who wanted Kasumi to spell out that she loves her instead of staying vague. And I already mentioned all the times Sakurako has been purposely holding back, which are all signs of her trying not to make Kasumi unhappy and leave her behind.

There is a lot more nuance to this than I may have been able to convey, especially because I have no intention of just posting a dozen pages here, but Sakurako is hiding a more complex perspective behind an aloof act.

I may be a writer, but even I was impressed by LiLa's essay.

Ah... an essay, is it? I really didn't want to turn it into something so overblown. It's just my inability to be concise.

All I can add to this conversation is my own broad strokes of how I feel about labels. I personally think it's silly to be so averse to them, labels are descriptive not prescriptive, they don't tell you what to do they simply provide a name for the already present traits. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc.

I tend to agree to a certain extend. I believe there are all kinds of relationships out there which may not neatly fit into labels, simply because they haven't been made yet. But the issue here is that Yukiko's storytelling says "This is a special relationship that cant be labeled", yet she just displays a straightforward romance about girls who claim their relationship is not what it actually is.

I would challenge them this way... Someone should ask Sakurako how her relationship with Kasumi differs from a romantic partnership/dating. I am convinced she will be hard pressed to actually give a proper response. The differences, if any exist, are diminutive. It's an aversity to labels that fuels this understanding more than the actual factual relationship they have. I have already (excessively) explained why I think Sakurako thinks this way though.

last edited at Jan 6, 2022 8:27PM

Licentious Lantern posted:

Thank you for your respond and elaboration. I really have nothing to add or argue about, cos I feel like you expressed your opinions very clearly and I'm completely fine with your interpretation of the story. Only thing

But are you so sure you are not imposing your idea of happiness on them?

I'm not doing anything. I specifically said that if they consider themselves happy, then as far as I'm concerned they're happy. My definition of happiness is irrelevant. Whatever I consider them to be happy, unhappy or that their relationship could be improved, it doesn't matter.

Someone should ask Sakurako how her relationship with Kasumi differs from a romantic partnership/dating.

"We don't have sex!"

All I can add to this conversation is my own broad strokes of how I feel about labels. I personally think it's silly to be so averse to them, labels are descriptive not prescriptive, they don't tell you what to do they simply provide a name for the already present traits. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc.

The fact that they don't have sex or even kiss means that the label they would be getting would really hurt the mangas appeal to its main audience and thus they prefer to avoid them altogether.

This crazy how every time i goes to the discussion of this simple cutesy series i always got 260 pages of thesis on relationship and love

This crazy how every time i goes to the discussion of this simple cutesy series i always got 260 pages of thesis on relationship and love

Just goes to show the level of difficulty some people have processing relationships that fall outside the most conventional paradigm, if you ask me.

All I can add to this conversation is my own broad strokes of how I feel about labels. I personally think it's silly to be so averse to them, labels are descriptive not prescriptive, they don't tell you what to do they simply provide a name for the already present traits. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc.

The fact that they don't have sex or even kiss means that the label they would be getting would really hurt the mangas appeal to its main audience and thus they prefer to avoid them altogether.

Yeah they do? It was about a year or two ago but the author was answering some questions about this series. They purposefully don’t show these parts of their relationship. I can remember why and I’ll have to find the tweets again. They’re probably in the comments section here somewhere.

Shockingly, if you make something ambiguous, people will debate the ambiguity.

Shockingly, if you make something ambiguous, people will debate the ambiguity.

I don't think the relationship between the MCs is ambiguous at all. True, the story doesn't display the same romance tropes as other series, and it definitely avoids easy labelling--that's been an explicit theme more than once--but it's beyond clear that the two of them are together and that they intend to stay together.

Can anyone foresee another person, of any gender, arousing romantic feelings in either one of the MCs so as to break them apart as a couple?

Such debate as there has been has mostly been about what particular story elements various readers would wish to see in order to fit the main relationship into an explicit category. But Sakurako and Kasumi have been together ever since Chapter 1.

i would like a picture that shown how different it is between high school MCs and now office lady MCs

Yeah they do? It was about a year or two ago but the author was answering some questions about this series. They purposefully don’t show these parts of their relationship. I can remember why and I’ll have to find the tweets again. They’re probably in the comments section here somewhere.

Don't you love it when essential story elements are revealed in Author AMAs instead of the actual work itself? Fantastic writing.

Christ, not you again.

They kissed on the pages of this manga. There is no room for "vagueness" there. For the claim about Yukiko saying they have sex I would need to see proof though, because my guess is that it was by far not such a direct and clear statement.

It's not like you have show raunchy sex to clarify a relationship. In the comic Girls With Slingshots, we have Jamie and Erin, two women in a romantic relationship. Jamie is very physical, I think leaning toward heterosexuality; Erin is very asexual. I don't remember if they do more physically than cuddle, but Jamie has Erin's permission to take other loves to meet her physical needs/desires. It's non-standard! But very clear -- they're lovers, with sex running on different tracks -- and there's nothing more visually explicit than seeing two people in bed with the sheets up.

It wouldn't take an explicit sex scene to indicate that K&S sometimes have sex, if maybe not as much as S would like. Or that S had resigned herself to worshipping and serving the asexual Kasumi. Some words would do; they could even be thought bubble words, the manga uses those. But the mangaka has chosen not to insert such clarity, and so we're left wondering, and worrying if there's some unresolved tension to the relationship -- yes, they're definitely in some sort of relationship, and S has used words like "my girlfriend and pet" without getting smacked, but no, it's not clear that she won't snap from frustrated lust some day.

we're left wondering, and worrying if there's some unresolved tension to the relationship.

You misspelled “ I’m left wondering and worrying.”

we're left wondering, and worrying if there's some unresolved tension to the relationship.

You misspelled “ I’m left wondering and worrying.”

They may be a plural system /mostly joking

last edited at Jan 8, 2022 7:01AM

we're left wondering, and worrying if there's some unresolved tension to the relationship.

You misspelled “ I’m left wondering and worrying.”

They may be a plural system /mostly joking

inb4 accidentally blew their cover by using the royal "we" :v

Gridman posted:

Yeah they do? It was about a year or two ago but the author was answering some questions about this series. They purposefully don’t show these parts of their relationship. I can remember why and I’ll have to find the tweets again. They’re probably in the comments section here somewhere.

Don't you love it when essential story elements are revealed in Author AMAs instead of the actual work itself? Fantastic writing.

We've been over this, and in finer detail, too. Think you can stop now. Wishing you the best in 2022, cheers.

As it happens, I had never read Futari Escape before (maybe the lack of the Yuri tag made me backburner it, I dunno), but I read it all in one go today. It’s very funny and charming, and I look forward to more chapters.

The comparisons with this one are obvious, but the contrasts even more so: that one’s definitely “subtext”—two characters who are long-term bonded and who feel real affection for one another, but so far are unsure exactly how deep that goes.

A Room For Two feels like a different thing altogether, although I’m a little hard-pressed to say exactly why. The characters are even quirkier, especially Kasumi, which (as this forum constantly demonstrates) makes definitive judgements about their relationship (at least) controversial, but in Futari Escape I can imagine a third person coming in and forcing the MCs to come to terms with the nature of their feelings for each other, while in A Room for Two that seems like a done deal, long ago.

last edited at Jan 9, 2022 1:12PM

Sakurako being too devoted contrasted by Hinako's neglect

It wouldn't take an explicit sex scene to indicate that K&S sometimes have sex, if maybe not as much as S would like. Or that S had resigned herself to worshipping and serving the asexual Kasumi. Some words would do; they could even be thought bubble words, the manga uses those. But the mangaka has chosen not to insert such clarity, and so we're left wondering, and worrying if there's some unresolved tension to the relationship -- yes, they're definitely in some sort of relationship, and S has used words like "my girlfriend and pet" without getting smacked, but no, it's not clear that she won't snap from frustrated lust some day.

In the original oneshot you Will find one of the most explecit parts of this series... Sakurako comments on Kasumis bust size

Given that the author decided to Not repeat that scene in the serial version its probably a fair assumption that we Arent gonna get anything... Well in the Other hand we see Sakurako squashing herself between kasumis legs 100 times and the first time she gets drunk she imediatly tries to make out with her, i might have contradicted myself

We've been over this, and in finer detail, too. Think you can stop now. Wishing you the best in 2022, cheers.

Yeah, yeah. I say shit you personally disagree with and you throw a hissy fit and call it "trolling" for expressing my displeasure in the way to story has unfolded. That's it pretty summed up. I mean, you label it "bile" simply because I point out that it has little yuri in it, not like Im personally attacking other users or try to psychoanalize their personality over a few short post about comics of gay girls. Besides Im not the people who brought up labels again, Im not the one pushing for the same discussion over and over again. I come back every two months and see that it just the same shit every day and when I reply to one or two posts you all the sudden got a problem with my "trolling". Im not breaking rules by not liking a series or story elements, grow up.

last edited at Jan 9, 2022 7:50PM

I generally tend to avoid reading something but you do you. I feel like it's the same damn conversation everytime a chapter is posted, about how it's not yuri and they aren't a couple, even tho the matter has been explain over and over everytime.