... Yeah, okay. This is enough.

StarKnight has been a member since 2013, and I don't like having to denounce someone with such huge seniority status, but...

The people on this website have a serious problem acknowledging problematic female characters. They immediately swallow down the POV of the main characters regardless of how shitty they are.

This blanket condemnation of everyone in the forum as people with mental problems and shit-swallowers deserves, I think, some sort of reprimand. Is there a moderator in the house?

Calling her an idiot with a cute face isn't abuse. He's an asshole but he's not abusing her. GTFO with this bullshit.

Please. He is absolutely being abusive. Insulting her privately, insulting and embarrassing her publicly, being dismissive of her concerns, etc. are things that hurt her emotionally and breed self doubt in her. It is emotional abuse, whether that's his intention or not.

Oh, please, yourself! He called her an idiot once and he didn't want to have sex with a condom on! These things are not abuse. It was a shitty thing to say, especially in front of a guest, but it is not abusive. You're being sensationalist. The two rushed into a marriage because they got knocked up before either knew each other well enough and now Midori realised that the person she met isn't as sweet as she thought he was on date night and is scared because she feels trapped. As of chapter 5 no abuse has occurred. You're all trying very hard to victimise Midori since its easier that way to sympathise with her if you take the opinion that her partner is just an abuser

This blanket condemnation of everyone in the forum as people with mental problems and shit-swallowers deserves, I think, some sort of reprimand. Is there a moderator in the house?

First of all, I didn't insult anybody. Secondly, I used the general term "people". Third, are you seriously trying to get me banned for saying people on this site don't call out shitty female characters? Seriously? You enjoy an echo-chamber this much?

last edited at Feb 22, 2020 7:03PM

okie dokie then.. @ the shit storm going down in this forum XD i for one really enjoy watching the character interactions in this manga, also seeing her slowly come to terms with herself and how she feels about her current life and how she is coping with that. i can relate to that feeling of hopelessness and telling yourself to just "let it happen, it is what it is.." and we slowly start to see her break free from that mind set, not much but just a bit! im really looking forward to her development as a character.

last edited at Feb 22, 2020 7:19PM

Welp. Never coming back to THIS dumpster fire of a comments section...

Since I'm already here anyway, my 2-cents is that bf's overall trend of throwing out negs and microaggressions very likely counts as verbal abuse, not even touching the ambiguous consent incident, but the relationship overall is so co-dependent that I can only see Midori as a victim in-so-much she's a victim of her own dumb choices and utter lack of a backbone.

So yeah, I'll ride this train-wreck of a story to its inevitable conclusion, but for me the Good End would be Maki finally moving the fuck ON!

They immediately swallow down the POV of the main characters regardless of how shitty they are.

Someone haven't read Citrus thread.

They immediately swallow down the POV of the main characters regardless of how shitty they are.

Someone haven't read Citrus thread.

Well, I did before dropping it. Did fans turn on Mei? Because they very much loved her when I was reading it. So much so to the point of hating the new girl, Matsuri. I left around there but I do know how the manga ended.

I’m not very invested in The Who’s A Good Person Manga Interpretation Sweepstakes, but insofar as I am, or would be:

What random said.^

anyone know how abortion is perceived in japan? is it even legal?

It is legal as long as it has consent from the mother. Actually, when a suppose mother consulted to a doctor for the first time to know her pregnancy, the doctors will ask her if she wanna keep the baby or not. Until, she said she’ll gonna keep it, that’s when she’ll hear congratulations.

Anyway, I’m sort of glad that Midori keeps her baby but yet hating how the story goes on so far. Well, still looking forward for the next.

He isn't abusive. He's insensitive, possessive, and a dickhead, but he has not abused anybody. No matter how often you say it, it won't make it true. Show me an example or stop saying it.

Oh fine, link time.

Exhibit A - note also Maki immediately catching on there being something wrong here
Exhibit B - note also how Doumyou visibly catches on something being off and pauses

That's the occasions where he gratuitously and deliberately outright insults her in front of friends and associates - and indeed so far we've been shown he appears to only do that in such contexts.
Which... implies a fair few things concerning why he does it, none of which reflect well on his character.

There's Hell of a lot more varyingly subtler snubs that together paint a picture of him pretty much plain holding her in uncaring contempt except insofar she remains 'available and desirable' for him to stick his dick in. To wit:
1) - can't be fucked to extend even the basic courtesy of the stereotypical husband or boyfriend to accompany their SO on something she feels is important (in this case related to their goddamn wedding) and politely smile and nod along
2) - well I suppose it can be counted as a merit of sorts that he isn't controlling and morbidly jealous at least... which is a compliment akin to "actually not literally worse than Hitler" so, yeah.
3) - so apparently the only thing that actually matters about her pregnancy is how much it'll affect her sexual attractiveness in his eyes, good to know
4) - did he just basically state that the main reason he's taking responsibility for knocking her up is she's cute enough? Because I'm pretty sure he did.
5) - "associate and wife's friend(?) drops by to get off her chest that she fancied you too but she's now finally over it after seeing your domestic setting sorry to bother you, wat do Tazune-sensei?" "Why - strike up a vaguely flirty conversation (right in front of your wife-to-be mind you), causing [visible confusion] in said third wheel, walk her to the station having amiable conversation while basically neglecting wifey dearest wholesale and openly exchange numbers with her! That doesn't come across as God-awfully suspicious and callous at all!"
6) - cap off the above bizarre episode by gratuitously comparing your wifey dearest unflatteringly to the just-departed third wheel, because that's not plain deliberately mean or anything

Now certain amount of the above could be construed as the kind of flippant bullshit banter exchanged between people sufficiently familiar with each other. But the thing is, nobody involved takes it as such for a second.

last edited at Feb 22, 2020 8:05PM

Bonus entry: the other thing that matters about her pregnancy is how it might affect her accessibility for sex, yay!

Althought we potentially found a candidate for the husband to cheat with.

also predicted, even if it was an easy one.

Althought we potentially found a candidate for the husband to cheat with.

also predicted, even if it was an easy one.

It's certainly strongly implied they've started an affair, if not fucked already. Relatedly though there's some interesting undertones to the convo Doumyou has with Midori implicitly stemming from it - particularly she makes a quite on-the-nose assessment of the latter's character and situation, seems to subtly warn her she really should prepare herself to be more independent (whether because she doesn't expect the marriage to last, genuinely feels Midori's just letting her insecurities trap her in a hella toxic relationship, or both - hard to tell) and in no small part sounds like she outright pities her.

May also be a translation artifact but the way she talks about having wanted, past tense, to fall in love with him might be taken to imply that's no longer the case presumably due to having caught wind of his true character. Doesn't seem to stop her from still wanting to fuck him ofc but that'd be something she can easily enough drop if necessary; she isn't the one with pathological abandonement issues in the equation.

Doesn't seem to stop her from still wanting to fuck him ofc but that'd be something she can easily enough drop if necessary; she isn't the one with pathological abandonement issues in the equation.

She might be too happy to hurt indirectly Midori for "stealing" him.

Do we really have folks out here rn implying that it’s totally permissible and relatable to tear down someone who put their trust in you because they’ve made mistakes regarding their own person not yours?

Like, imagine calling your friend a “shithead failure” after they’ve been ruined by a pyramid scheme. Then imagine the same except you’re the one who started the swindle and now act like you fully expect them to continue being your BFF.

Anyway, T-dawg is a fucko and I’m not super into punitive violence but I really want something to get him to lose that punk smile.

I thought people were going to discuss that the husband is probably cheating but I seemed to have found a bunch of people arguing

She might be too happy to hurt indirectly Midori for "stealing" him.

Or, conversely, she might figure cheating on her might give the push she needs to break off from a guy she objectively shouldn't be with.

People are quite amazing at coming up with virtuous justifications for dodgy shit they do, after all.

He isn't abusive. He's insensitive, possessive, and a dickhead, but he has not abused anybody. No matter how often you say it, it won't make it true. Show me an example or stop saying it.

Oh fine, link time.

Exhibit A - note also Maki immediately catching on there being something wrong here
Exhibit B - note also how Doumyou visibly catches on something being off and pauses

That's the occasions where he gratuitously and deliberately outright insults her in front of friends and associates - and indeed so far we've been shown he appears to only do that in such contexts.
Which... implies a fair few things concerning why he does it, none of which reflect well on his character.

There's Hell of a lot more varyingly subtler snubs that together paint a picture of him pretty much plain holding her in uncaring contempt except insofar she remains 'available and desirable' for him to stick his dick in. To wit:
1) - can't be fucked to extend even the basic courtesy of the stereotypical husband or boyfriend to accompany their SO on something she feels is important (in this case related to their goddamn wedding) and politely smile and nod along
2) - well I suppose it can be counted as a merit of sorts that he isn't controlling and morbidly jealous at least... which is a compliment akin to "actually not literally worse than Hitler" so, yeah.
3) - so apparently the only thing that actually matters about her pregnancy is how much it'll affect her sexual attractiveness in his eyes, good to know
4) - did he just basically state that the main reason he's taking responsibility for knocking her up is she's cute enough? Because I'm pretty sure he did.
5) - "associate and wife's friend(?) drops by to get off her chest that she fancied you too but she's now finally over it after seeing your domestic setting sorry to bother you, wat do Tazune-sensei?" "Why - strike up a vaguely flirty conversation (right in front of your wife-to-be mind you), causing [visible confusion] in said third wheel, walk her to the station having amiable conversation while basically neglecting wifey dearest wholesale and openly exchange numbers with her! That doesn't come across as God-awfully suspicious and callous at all!"
6) - cap off the above bizarre episode by gratuitously comparing your wifey dearest unflatteringly to the just-departed third wheel, because that's not plain deliberately mean or anything

Now certain amount of the above could be construed as the kind of flippant bullshit banter exchanged between people sufficiently familiar with each other. But the thing is, nobody involved takes it as such for a second.

Look, I appreciate the effort you've gone through here, but you haven't shown me evidence of abuse. You've shown me that Tazune is insensitive, clearly thinks lesser of his fiancee, and the two clearly aren't in love, which is something Maki also picks up on, but nowhere have you shown me that he has emotionally abuses her as seems to be the consensus here. It may very well be revealed in a chapter or two that he does in other instances, or he might begin to but within the five chapters so far he simply hasn't abused her. So, I'm just gonna put an end to this here and say lets agree to disagree because its looking like people want to see me as a villain simply for not jumping to Midori's side despite her own stupidity and selfishness.

She might be too happy to hurt indirectly Midori for "stealing" him.

Or, conversely, she might figure cheating on her might give the push she needs to break off from a guy she objectively shouldn't be with.

People are quite amazing at coming up with virtuous justifications for dodgy shit they do, after all.

Either way Doumyou has quite the setup going for herself here: she makes advances on her friend’s husband-to-be, gets (unexpectedly or not) positive feedback from him, then lords Midori’s rocky relationship over her. Even if she’s acting in good faith at this point, it’s obvious that she’s become a toxic presence.

Look, I appreciate the effort you've gone through here, but you haven't shown me evidence of abuse. You've shown me that Tazune is insensitive, clearly thinks lesser of his fiancee, and the two clearly aren't in love, which is something Maki also picks up on, but nowhere have you shown me that he has emotionally abuses her as seems to be the consensus here. It may very well be revealed in a chapter or two that he does in other instances, or he might begin to but within the five chapters so far he simply hasn't abused her. So, I'm just gonna put an end to this here and say lets agree to disagree because its looking like people want to see me as a villain simply for not jumping to Midori's side despite her own stupidity and selfishness.

What's obvious here is you don't actually understand what emotional abuse even is.

Or false equivalence.

Either way Doumyou has quite the setup going for herself here: she makes advances on her friend’s husband-to-be, gets (unexpectedly or not) positive feedback from him, then lords Midori’s rocky relationship over her. Even if she’s acting in good faith at this point, it’s obvious that she’s become a toxic presence.

Fair. Hell by this point Maki is pretty much the only person in Midori's life not toxic.

Look, I appreciate the effort you've gone through here, but you haven't shown me evidence of abuse. You've shown me that Tazune is insensitive, clearly thinks lesser of his fiancee, and the two clearly aren't in love, which is something Maki also picks up on, but nowhere have you shown me that he has emotionally abuses her as seems to be the consensus here. It may very well be revealed in a chapter or two that he does in other instances, or he might begin to but within the five chapters so far he simply hasn't abused her. So, I'm just gonna put an end to this here and say lets agree to disagree because its looking like people want to see me as a villain simply for not jumping to Midori's side despite her own stupidity and selfishness.

What's obvious here is you don't actually understand what emotional abuse even is.

Or false equivalence.

I let it go but, sure, be a dick about it.

There is no point to living someone else's life. It is condemning yourself to death and then living in what is at best purgatory and at worst hell.

Midori, like most people who try doing this, is slowly finding this out the hard way...

Too bad living authentically can be hell too. Though Japan is actually a good place overall for this, by world standards. That said, I have a bad feeling the REAL drama might come afterwards - say Midori gets with Maki and divorces Tazune... Custody of the child comes into play...

Nobody's talking about the imho best part of the chapter: Midori returning home thinking about how lately her life has turned into an endless running away from the things she hate, and wondering if there isn't something that she likes and is worth striving for.

Thank you, Subconscious-san, for the prompt and decisive answer!

Midori is thiiiiiis close to an epiphany. (งᗒ‿‿ᗕ)ง

yeah, he's gonna cheat on her

Look, I appreciate the effort you've gone through here, but you haven't shown me evidence of abuse. You've shown me that Tazune is insensitive, clearly thinks lesser of his fiancee, and the two clearly aren't in love, which is something Maki also picks up on, but nowhere have you shown me that he has emotionally abuses her as seems to be the consensus here. It may very well be revealed in a chapter or two that he does in other instances, or he might begin to but within the five chapters so far he simply hasn't abused her. So, I'm just gonna put an end to this here and say lets agree to disagree because its looking like people want to see me as a villain simply for not jumping to Midori's side despite her own stupidity and selfishness.

I agree with this. They aren't kids. Midori obviously wanted something out of him, and he took advantage of her weakness. I am not sure what the point is of making him seem like a real person that is kind of a douche, though. It's easier to just make him evil so that the reasons behind the eventual breakup don't matter. No one wants to read about a man in yuri manga.