Forum › The Feelings We All Must Endure discussion

__ex_keine_kamishirasawa_keine_and_kamishirasawa_keine_touhou_drawn_by_rebecca_keinelove__dac6b62f1c1ee61618ab14504ccd5a1b
joined May 30, 2018

there have been few times where i've hated every single character in a manga. in fact only one. this is the one that gets the that crown. hopefully it wears it with pride. every character was selfish and manipulative, or just didn't have any guts at all to really figure out any problems. then at the end they decide to stay friends and lovers even after all the awful things that they've done to each other. i know that's what shunita was going for since she based them off the seven deadly sins but it still hurts deep inside.

__ex_keine_kamishirasawa_keine_and_kamishirasawa_keine_touhou_drawn_by_rebecca_keinelove__dac6b62f1c1ee61618ab14504ccd5a1b
joined May 30, 2018

nooo come on fucking saachan fucking ruki chan fuckin amano shinuta fucking remi fuck everyone this was by far the worst seires that i ve reed fuuuuck everyone, im so mad/sad/cracked righ now

i agree so much dude

45b4e36d555ca184502130f8249354c2--flcl-furi-kuri2
joined Jul 19, 2018

Now this was a well crafted and memorable read.

joined Dec 18, 2018

I don't think I've ever had such a drastic change of feelings towards a character as I did towards Sachi over the last couple of chapters. She went from a character I symphatized with into a character I wanted to rot in emotional hell for a few years to repent her actions.

Like I even understood the first time she cheated, being confused about her personality, sexuality and just plain temptation, many people would falter under those circumstances....once.

Then the final chapter rolls around and we find out it wasn't just once, it was several times. Suddenly what was left of my sympathy toward her was replaced by loathing and anger. Then we get the scene where she tells Ruki about it all, no regret, no apology, no karmic retribution over her actions. No she gets a happy ending despite everything. That just didn't sit right with me. I think for the first time in forever I would have been happy with an ending where the couple I had been rooting for the entire series wouldn't end up together.

Perhaps the problem is that what their relationship is like after the final chapter is left quite a bit a mystery. Only clues we get are from the extra chapter where we have the scene with Remi where she flirts with both of them. Sachi hits her when she flirts with Ruki, but is more than happy to flirt back. Just left a very bad taste in my mouth. Sachi is happy to rip open the wounds left by her cheating just to tease Ruki. As a result I really can't see a future with them where Sachi doesn't cheat again.

If the author wanted to convince us that their relationship was going to be solid we really needed a chapter that expanded on what their relationship became. Perhaps about their graduation trip, with a scene where Sachi finally realizes just how much she loved Ruki, and how much she hurt her with her actions in the past, and finally truly apologizing. I think then I would have been comfortable with their relationship.

If the intention however was to leave us in doubt then good fucking job and fuck you author.

/rant over

Marion Diabolito
Dynsaty%20scans%20avatar%20from%20twgokhs
joined Jan 5, 2015

I am not going to comment every time I re-read this but I wanted to leave it on a high note. Every time I do re-read it, I get more out of it. It's on my short list of yuri masterpieces. And I have to say, Sachiko and Ruki (Sachiko's last name is even quite, quite similar to Ogasawara, you know, and Ruki is somewhat similar to Yumi) have a good relationship -Ruki is 100% committed and Sachiko told her family about her already. It's the kind of thing Fukasawa Yumi would have killed to have with her Sachiko.

Firefly Fanatic
9a98d8a7-869e-4e25-947d-59f469d10a1d
joined Feb 22, 2019

Reading this has wounded my heart. I don't think I'll recover from these scars.

joined Apr 13, 2019

interesting read. different than how most mangas go and while i didn’t like the relationships they felt real.

C__data_users_defapps_appdata_internetexplorer_temp_saved%20images_lavender_town_screenshot
joined Dec 9, 2014

I remember years ago reading this story. I was looking for Sweet guilty live bites and didn't know this was the same author!
It's one of these stories that stick out and you remember. Amano Shuninta is one of the very good authors/artists out there.

Anyway, I really liked this. I don't like half of the characters are a person, but I like reading about them and that's a very important thing of good story telling.
The pair I didn't like was Ruki and Sachan. As characters they are interesting, but besides what everyone else has already said about the cheating situation too, I never felt any chemistry between them. Sachan feels like she's with Euki because she doesn't have anyone better for now. I honestly don't see them lasting in the future at all. I don't think she loves Ruki.

I really liked the friendship between Ruki and Fue. Also Fue and Asuna relationship was interesting. I think they'd have chances to make it work in the future.
I don't like Remi at all, but she is useful for making people reveal the worst part of themselves. Her character reminds me of the snake from the Eden garden. She's the temptation personified. There were hints here and there about her back-story, but there weren't enough for me to make her likeable or more than just someone who stirs things up.

I liked Massa and her grandpa was adorable. I was scared he'd actually die after his first wobble. Meru was also interesting because she is the character who is the most emotional needy. So that part of her made a very good combination with her need for food. Because a lot of the time people are using food to replace their emotional needs.
Ruki, Fue, Massa and Meru are not bad people. They just have their flaws.

[steam]yunocchi13
joined Apr 20, 2015

A pretty pessimistic read. Sobering for some maybe, but not really my kind of thing, though I did like the breakup between Fue and Asuna. Compared to the rest of the characters, their relationship was one I could believe in, and empathize with.

85af8296-a13b-494e-810e-ae41815d00fa
joined Jan 19, 2016

This story gives me bad feels :’(

last edited at Jan 3, 2020 3:13AM

20200329_023945
joined Feb 16, 2020

ah fucking hell, yea thats one hell of a ride,, there are some comments (specifically MacySan's comment) that makes me want to press that like button bc of how accurate their comment is to the story but dynasty doesnt have one, i wouldve honestly love this if Sacchan and Ruki didnt end up together but if the author just wants me to feel this frustration then good job u did it

Budokan2
joined Jan 13, 2015

I really hate this series, lmao. I know i already commented before about how i dislike this series so much i can't even click the link to it, I'd like to comment again since i forgot how bad this is after reading amano's other works.

As someone who got cheated on 4 times already, i define cheating as when a third party is involved in your relationship. For cheating to happen, there has to be a relationship involved. I only read the last few chapters coz i feel like im gonna puke if i read the whole thing again, but Sacchi did say at the confrontation with ruki at the end that she played around with remi. And she did it so she can feel how it likes to cheat. For me, that statement meant that 1. They were in a relationship since for one to cheat, they had to be in a relationship (imagine if you had a crush on a celebrity and you're calling them a cheater for having a gf/bf, doesn't make sense right?) 2. She knew ruki had feelings for her, she knew they were in a relationship since cheating on someone entails that you guys are in a relationship. To those saying it wasn't clear if they were going out, yea it was. Lol. Stop trying to defend cheating. Cheating is bad. And sacchi was cheating on ruki, that's what she said. Lel. And she didn't fail to cheat. Shw successfully cheated on ruki. What she failed to do was to change ruki's mind about her. Also please stop trying to twist cheating into something good coz she realized she had feelings for ruki after cheating. Even if they were going out after all that mess, that relationship is prolly at least x10 more toxic than Chernobyl right after the reactor leaked.

In short, i hate cheating, i hate this story. Lmaooo. And for those going to down play my comment as "cHeaTing bAd hurr durr get over it". Cheating is bad. There's not a gray area in there. It's a shitty thing to do to someone no matter what kind of intention or goal was behind it.

Edit: Forgot to add that what i especially dislike about the ending is it's basically saying that: Cheating is okay as long as you're doing it with the right intentions. Like it's just a normal thing to do to find yourself. Really dislike bad things that hurt other people being normalized as something healthy to do for you. It's like normalizing something like it's okay for a murderer to kill a few people each month so they don't get pent up and commit genocide. I don't dislike the author, their new series is pretty sweet. Just dislike the ending. Would've been cool if it showed ruki moving on and happy with another person, at least that i can stomach.

last edited at Aug 29, 2020 5:53AM

Budokan2
joined Jan 13, 2015

I am not going to comment every time I re-read this but I wanted to leave it on a high note. Every time I do re-read it, I get more out of it. It's on my short list of yuri masterpieces. And I have to say, Sachiko and Ruki (Sachiko's last name is even quite, quite similar to Ogasawara, you know, and Ruki is somewhat similar to Yumi) have a good relationship -Ruki is 100% committed and Sachiko told her family about her already. It's the kind of thing Fukasawa Yumi would have killed to have with her Sachiko.

I really loved marimite and have re watched all 4 seasons of it multiple times, so i have to really stop you right there when you're comparing the Marimite Sachiko to the sacchi here. There would prolly be no way on hell that Sachiko would hurt yumi like that. And if there is a reality where that occurred, the onee-sama yumi loved would've died immediately the moment she cheated, meaning that's not the Sachiko Yumi loved all that time. And pretty sure Yumi wouldn't stand Sachiko cheating on her, they had a whole arc about that with Touko remember? Pretty sure Yumi wouldn't kill for a toxic relationship that ruki decided to settle on. Also ruki may be 100% committed, but what about sacchi? Pretty sure telling your family about your relationship doesn't always necessarily mean you're settled on that person, whether you're coming out to your family in doing so or not.

last edited at Aug 29, 2020 6:01AM

danchoudanchoudanchou
joined Sep 16, 2020

I'm not here to be a Sachi apologist years after the fact, but I do think she has a gotten a far worse rap than she probably deserves. It definitely didn't sit well with me after I had just finished reading, but I also realized I originally did so under the assumption that this is a gay manga where everyone is gay and also with the view that Ruki is the protagonist of the story. After going back and rereading the last few chapters with Sachi's thoughts in mind, it actually gave me a different perspective.

To start out with, Sachi clearly considered herself straight up until Ruki confessed her love to her. And even then, we can tell by what is said later on in the story that Sachi was just going along with Ruki, like she thought she should do, and without really considering her own feelings or sexuality. And this doesn't really seem to change for a while. The fact that she thought "it's different from a guy, but it'll calm her down either way" when having sex with Ruki for the first time again demonstrates that she's willing to just be pulled along without taking stock of her own emotions (something that Ruki later gets upset with her for: "I thought you'd say no"). At this point, Sachi has really been nothing but a passenger in Ruki's relationship with her, and while we can tell she does have some form of feelings for Ruki with the whole "introduce me" incident with her ex, we also know that they are unclear to her. This is compounded by the fact that Remi kisses her immediately after she takes her first real step to affirming her feelings for Ruki, instead just making everything more muddled (as Remi planned).

So now we're at the part in the story where Sachi seems to start doing some soul searching with the help of Remi, who of course sees no problem with using her position has a trusted friend to take advantage of Sachi's uncertainty. She gets her smashed, takes her home, and proceeds to get even more inside Sachi's head. The fact that Remi also left a kiss mark on Sachi's arm specifically to upset Ruki lets us know that she is very much in knowing control of the situation. Remi's next move is to tell Sachi that she slept with Ruki (introducing even more doubt into their relationship), before offering to do the same with Sachi. At this point, I find it hard to see Sachi's initiation here as anything more than a manufactured response as the result of being emotionally manipulated and taken advantage of by someone she trusts. Even after the deed is done, Remi doesn't miss a beat and sets about convincing Sachi that she shouldn't feel bad for hurting Ruki and that not only is it natural, but that her relationship with Ruki is just a phase. Of course, a nice side effect of this is that if it really means nothing, then they can keep having sex, which unsurprisingly benefits Remi...

From there it's a pretty straight shot to Sachi's confession of what happened. I don't think the line "I wanted to see how it feels to be the cheater" is untrue when Sachi says it, but I also don't think she would've actually done it had Remi not wanted it to be so. I also think that Sachi is genuine in her confession to Ruki, and while every thing up to that point was an absolute shitshow, that Sachi actually managed to find her true feelings for Ruki in all of it. This can be further seen in the "don't you think we would have gotten together somehow" line in the bonus chapter. Those are not the words of someone who lacks confidence in their relationship. The Sachi who was just going along with Ruki would have simply shrugged.

I also would like to contextualize the Remi/Sachi interaction in the bonus chapter by reminding everyone at that point Sachi and Ruki had been seriously dating for over two years and been with each other for over three. And that Remi would have been there the entire time. I truly believe that Sachi's reaction was intended to get under Ruki's skin in a playful way and not in any way a serious consideration of sleeping with Remi.

To sum it up, yes, Sachi behaved in a pretty shitty manner. However, a lot of people miss exactly how much of it is attributable to Remi being human garbage who puppeteered the entire thing for both her own amusement and to prove a completely incorrect point (that Sachi was straight).

last edited at Oct 25, 2020 11:35AM

Marion Diabolito
Dynsaty%20scans%20avatar%20from%20twgokhs
joined Jan 5, 2015

I really loved marimite and have re watched all 4 seasons of it multiple times, so i have to really stop you right there when you're comparing the Marimite Sachiko to the sacchi here. There would prolly be no way on hell that Sachiko would hurt yumi like that. And if there is a reality where that occurred, the onee-sama yumi loved would've died immediately the moment she cheated, meaning that's not the Sachiko Yumi loved all that time. And pretty sure Yumi wouldn't stand Sachiko cheating on her, they had a whole arc about that with Touko remember? Pretty sure Yumi wouldn't kill for a toxic relationship that ruki decided to settle on. Also ruki may be 100% committed, but what about sacchi? Pretty sure telling your family about your relationship doesn't always necessarily mean you're settled on that person, whether you're coming out to your family in doing so or not.

I think the Touko arc was quite similar to the Remi arc. The author got hundreds of letters like "We hate Touko, don't let her be Yumi's petite soueur!!" And Yumi was even more crushed than Ruki. And Yumi sucked it all up - even the criminal neglect by Sachiko, even the way Touko destroyed her pride - because that's just how much Yumi loves Sachiko.

Don't let how feminine the two Sacchans look - and their damsel in distress introductions -- fool you. They are, and prefer to be, the guys in their relationships. Period. I would compare Sachiko chasing off Kanako to Sachi swatting Remi.

And I think telling your beloved little sister - nervously - that not only do you have a girl friend, but not even a "cool" girlfriend, is super-meaningful. Sachi told her sister the main reason she dated her boyfriend was that he was cool. But she's with Ruki because she's Ruki.

And if Yumi was told "you have to go through another cycle like with Touko, but this time you're both in college and Sachiko will cheat on you but after that you will be an official, together couple - I think Yumi would accept it thankfully. It's easy to talk big about how devoted you are to Sachiko with the other Sachiko fan-girls, but what eveyone in Marimite was impressed by was Yumi's absolute demonstrated devotion to Sachiko. She was as much a doormat as Ruki, easily. She even refused the rosary why? "My pride as a Sachiko fan." I could easily see Sachiko marrying Suguru and Yumi being her mistress (although since Sachiko would hate to think of it that way Yumi would be her secretary, or even adopted by her).

And if Sachi cheated on Ruki after they were a couple, Ruki would leave her. Just like Yumi compared taking the rosary for bad reasons to Sachiko's loveless sham engagement. Ruki landed her woman, and kept her. That's why I think she's quite happy. And so is Sacchan.

joined Oct 22, 2020

I know she was written exactly with that in mind but... god dammit i despise Remi....

last edited at Feb 2, 2021 4:46AM

To reply you must either login or sign up.