Forum › Going Off Course discussion

91174211_215395393136656_8792315491096985600_n
joined Dec 5, 2016

It's the difference between saying that to have a female body you have to have a vagina, and saying that I already have a female body cuz I'm a female and this is my body, but that I want to have surgery so that I can feel more comfortable in that body.

I agree with Vivian's comment entirely. If I might add something, it would be that the importance of these surgeries is often also tied to the need we have, as transgender people, to recognize ourselves and be recognized as a specific gender. This is partially why breast removal and facial feminization are so important to trans men and trans women respectively: because they influence how we perceive ourselves and how society will perceive us. One thing is recognizing that your body doesn't dictate your gender (society does that), another thing is day-to-day life, when these sex-related characteristics will affect your self perception and your psychological well being.

So even if we're not necessarily "in the wrong bodies", it turns out that HRT, SRS, FFS and other surgeries are still a necessity because we're all people inserted into a cissexist society filled with masculinity/femininity standards and that will judge us based on our bodies, and even push us to hate these bodies.

Happy%20face
joined Oct 12, 2016

Even if you're not a radical social constructionist feminist/queer theorist, if you're a fan of accurate history then using a medical model for defining transgender is still pretty wacky - because the origin and modern meaning of the term did not come from doctors, it came from trans activists.

062589fd3c9f5577a916b303e3c6c27f
joined Nov 16, 2013

I'm not imposing my opinion, I'm stating the medical fact.

Well, I'm a medicine student and also member of the psychiatry league in my college, and as far as "medical facts" go, the issue of transgender people would be much better categorized as a "medical debate". I have met several psychiatrists who also support depathologization of transgender identities, and I have met my fair share of people who oppose this idea. There is no medical consensus about who are or what characterizes transgender people, the debate is quite heated and it's hard to point out anything as an uncontroversial fact.

So, yeah, it's your opinion.

Quite disingenuous. Your impression of the debate as a med student doesn't cancel out what is currently on paper. Nevri is referring to how GID/GD is currently described and handled pretty much exactly. The DSM isn't "just your opinion".

[commie]%20go!%20princess%20precure%20-%2013%20[51546f94].mkv_snapshot_09.42_[2016.12.19_12.33.57]
joined Dec 10, 2014

The DSM isn't always right either.

91174211_215395393136656_8792315491096985600_n
joined Dec 5, 2016

Quite disingenuous. Your impression of the debate as a med student doesn't cancel out what is currently on paper. Nevri is referring to how GID/GD is currently described and handled pretty much exactly. The DSM isn't "just your opinion".

Homosexuality used to be in the DSM, dear.

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

A large part of why GID is in the DSM is a lot of insurance companies won't cover trans-related medications unless it is.

Yuri Girl 1001 Uploader
Avitar
Fly by Yuri
joined Mar 29, 2013

Considering that GRS is, many times, quite literally a life saving surgery and therefore very much a medical necessity, I never could understand why most insurance companies refuse to cover it. It seems likely the friend I've mentioned before would no longer be alive if she hadn't had the chance to get that surgery.

Edit: At least insurance did help her pay for the hormones.

last edited at Apr 15, 2017 6:53PM

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

Considering that GRS is, many times, quite literally a life saving surgery and therefore very much a medical necessity, I never could understand why most insurance companies refuse to cover it. It seems likely the friend I've mentioned before would no longer be alive if she hadn't had the chance to get that surgery.

Edit: At least insurance did help her pay for the hormones.

Even more so, given the overall size of the population even if we all wanted hormones and surgery (which of course all of us don't) it wouldn't be all that expensive from an insurance perspective. It's cheaper than a lot of stuff they do cover.

180
joined Mar 21, 2017

There are so many issues with the DSM that i wouldn't use it to get your point across.

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

There are so many issues with the DSM that i wouldn't use it to get your point across.

And let's not forget that Ken Zucker worked on the DSM-5, and what a kettle of fish that is.

Ss%20(2013-06-03%20at%2007.40.38)
joined Aug 23, 2014

Are these tags temporary or does tag rules not mean anything anymore

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

Who's got the "hundred facepalm" gif? I could really use it right about now.

180
joined Mar 21, 2017

There are so many issues with the DSM that i wouldn't use it to get your point across.

And let's not forget that Ken Zucker worked on the DSM-5, and what a kettle of fish that is.

Yeah that was a mess.

joined Dec 4, 2016

Honestly I don't care how they tag it, trans, futa, yuri. But here's thoughts, yuri tagging rule is there must have no penis in the story(who doesn't agree?) oh and futa is female with dick not male with vagina, so if you insist transwoman(with dick) is female then futa is even more closer to female.

A2bcf11834a1918b3f09b4219b2a099f_r
joined Aug 16, 2014

[...] yuri tagging rule is there must have no penis in the story(who doesn't agree?)

That's not the case. And neither the staff, nor plenty of users agree with your nonsense. The tag explicitly states

Female + female relationship(s).

last edited at Apr 15, 2017 8:04PM

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

Yikuph, you might not be aware that there are stories with pre-op trans women on the reader that are marked Yuri, which suggests you're running your mouth about something you don't know much about. So maybe don't, hm?

[commie]%20go!%20princess%20precure%20-%2013%20[51546f94].mkv_snapshot_09.42_[2016.12.19_12.33.57]
joined Dec 10, 2014

um, thank you for tagging this with yuri. i know i seem to a lot of people to be overreactive but i appreciate that the staff did put a lot of thought into how to handle this and while i disagree with how the futa tag is handled that the staff acknowledged the ambiguousness of this manga and wanted to be clear that it would validly fall under yuri if the character is trans in this doujin is very important and puts me at ease.

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

As to nightblade96, I haven't seen much from you in this discussion besides transphobia and shitposting. You've managed both, so I doubt there's much left for you hear. Move along to another discussion please.

180
joined Mar 21, 2017

It's one of those times when some people might think they are having an argument about semantics but really it involves so much more. I'd recommend just stopping if you think you're arguing semantics.

last edited at Apr 15, 2017 8:39PM

Ss%20(2013-06-03%20at%2007.40.38)
joined Aug 23, 2014

You're right, offering my own opinion is shitposting because I didn't write a 5 paragraph medical essay on it, and when did I say transphobic? I'm saying that a penis and yuri doesn't mix. Might as well say im heterophobic instead.

And sorry for pointing out how 2 tags that explicitly says shouldn't be used together are used together for no discernible reason.

"Should NOT be paired with the futanari tag unless there is somehow a separate relationship that does not involve futanari." literally stated on the tag itself.

But yeah I won't say any more on this matter. I may not understand what all this shit is about and I may never will, but I don't go around calling everyone that disagree with me (something)phobic

joined Dec 4, 2016

Yikuph, you might not be aware that there are stories with pre-op trans women on the reader that are marked Yuri, which suggests you're running your mouth about something you don't know much about. So maybe don't, hm?

Ah yeah I forgot that, but I mean it's only on dynasty where you can get futa, trans and yuri tags together. Wherever else I see relationships with penis automatically eliminate it as yuri. So don't get me wrong I am not transphobe I just don't care about it too much.

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

Okay.

Rx_5_50
joined May 3, 2016

Am I the only one thinks the two women are Nozomi and Eli? I heard that they are adults during this period in time. Also, Pito likes NozoEli. If it's true, then that would mean You had sex with Nozomi.

Cool.

Nyohohoho
joined Apr 20, 2013

REDflame23 posted:

Am I the only one thinks the two women are Nozomi and Eli? I heard that they are adults during this period in time. Also, Pito likes NozoEli. If it's true, then that would mean You had sex with Nozomi.

Cool.

Hmmm the age gap appear to be over 5 years imo, and I don't think that much time has passed... However, if that was the author idea, I don't really like it lol, because seeing Nozomi drunk and fooling around with Eli is not my cup of Tea.

Edit: Well... Random woman vs Nozomi ... Put like that I rather Nozomi for You

last edited at Apr 15, 2017 9:23PM

joined Jul 22, 2016

You-chan has boobs in this. Ahh, while I like Pito a lot (though I can't read Korean, curses), I wasn't too expecting anything great from this since I'm not a You-oshi, but as a piece of work, it was actually a fun read. It was cute, even if the sex scene was a little hard to understand. Chika-chan getting slightly upset was cute. Yea. Nyufufu.

Anyways, on the big argument ya'll are having over this stuff... well, I'm not stepping into the territory of what You wants to identify as in this doujin. I'll just drop a comment that I can agree with people saying it's not yuri sex, only because yuri sex is biologically female bodies going at it. It is however yuri if both parties in the relationship are girls, identify as female, etc. It's only the sexual intercourse that isn't for me.
(Because if I'm looking for lesbian porn, I'm not going for a penis. On that physical and sexual level, that's how I look at it. On everything else, girl to girl, any type of girl, is yuri. More or less.)

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