Forum › Liberty discussion

joined Oct 25, 2014

hopefully it will be in favor of the mc.

Rather than that, I just hope Maki finds out about the cheating and dumps Liz. It'd be pretty messed up if the plot forces Maki to be with someone who cheated on her.

last edited at Feb 10, 2020 5:13PM

Utenaanthy01
joined Aug 4, 2018

so the first nsfw chapter is her cheating on Maki, that's great

Wow. When you put it like that... yeah, it kinda sucks. >_<

I guess they're saving the big Maki/Liz sex scene for the climactic conclusion?

joined Oct 25, 2014

Maybe we'll get a Maki/Sumire sex scene instead.

White%20rose%20index
joined Aug 16, 2018

Hey, I'm down with that!

Just to see the face Liz would make when she walks in on them, heehee.

Avatar%20105
joined May 24, 2019

It's not bigotry to recognize that the societal standard for serious relationships is more often than not monogamy.

Fuck the societal standard.

last edited at Feb 12, 2020 12:39AM

Runrin-icon-wrd-2
joined Feb 9, 2019

hot.

then sad.

but it started hot.

Minami
joined Jun 25, 2019

I'm more or less certain Liz would join them. (Happy poly end?)

I don't see anything happy coming from the Senpai.

joined Oct 25, 2014

Senpai is pretty messed up but, in a way all she did was proving her point that relationships between girls don't last. Liz cheated on Maki and potentially ruined their relationship all on her own. Senpai just gave her a little push, but Liz is the sole responsible for her actions. She can't blame anyone but herself for this.

The irony is that Liz had built her whole life and professional career around the idea of proving Senpai wrong, but in the end she ended up proving her right anyway. This basically invalidates every single thing Liz has done since they broke up in high school. Talk about failing at life, Liz-chan.

last edited at Feb 10, 2020 10:53PM

joined Apr 6, 2019

I feel so bad for Maki and angry at Liz. She managed to hurt Maki whenever she remembers her senpai but can't do anything bad to the senpai who did the hurting, even did ecchi stuff with her! Damn, But I'm also looking forward to how this will turn out, hopefully it will be in favor of the mc.

Imho it's a given Maki will get Liz in the end... but she will have to work hard to win her prize. The authors intend us to look at Liz as a victim, who loved her sempai, was betrayed and scarred, but still has feelings for her even tho she now realizes that she's a bad person. (And how is it possible that she doesn't hate her, after all the cruels things she did? Well, it's just like that. "The heart has its reasons that reason does not know." - Pascal) Maki's role in this story is that of the knight in shining armor. No matter what Liz does to her, she somehow senses that Liz is not to blame... and she will have to fight to free her from her inner demons and sempai's clutches.

There are many ways to view the story and analyze the characters' actions and motivations, but I'm quite sure this is the one the authors want us to follow as the official canon one. (And, from what I have seen, there's a grand total of 2 people in this forum who are okay with that, lol.)

Utenaanthy01
joined Aug 4, 2018

And, from what I have seen, there's a grand total of 2 people in this forum who are okay with that, lol.

Two, including you?

joined Apr 6, 2019

Yeah, me and Cecile. Gotta problem? Sue us. xP

Minami
joined Jun 25, 2019

but I'm quite sure this is the one the authors want us to follow as the official canon one.

There is only one author, the other is just the artist.

(And, from what I have seen, there's a grand total of 2 people in this forum who are okay with that, lol.)

Ok with what ? Liz and Maki ending together ? That's pretty much a given no ? People saying otherwise are a bit delusional.

last edited at Feb 11, 2020 11:29AM

joined Jul 26, 2019

I hope we don't get into some sort of pseudo delusion of love between senpai and liz and toxic submission...
Let her continue to cheat and try to reject maki by being haughty and aloof...
Given her past mistakes, it would be the worst thing to continue on this destructive path!

joined Oct 25, 2014

I feel so bad for Maki and angry at Liz. She managed to hurt Maki whenever she remembers her senpai but can't do anything bad to the senpai who did the hurting, even did ecchi stuff with her! Damn, But I'm also looking forward to how this will turn out, hopefully it will be in favor of the mc.

Imho it's a given Maki will get Liz in the end... but she will have to work hard to win her prize. The authors intend us to look at Liz as a victim, who loved her sempai, was betrayed and scarred, but still has feelings for her even tho she now realizes that she's a bad person. (And how is it possible that she doesn't hate her, after all the cruels things she did? Well, it's just like that. "The heart has its reasons that reason does not know." - Pascal) Maki's role in this story is that of the knight in shining armor. No matter what Liz does to her, she somehow senses that Liz is not to blame... and she will have to fight to free her from her inner demons and sempai's clutches.

I totally disagree with that. Like I said in my previous post, Senpai is totally messed up but Liz is 100% responsible for her actions. If this manga is to have a happy ending with Maki and Liz being together at the end, the one who has to make the effort to make that happen is Liz rather than Maki. Maki already put a lot of effort into making their relationship work but Liz took it for granted, crap all over it, and ultimately cheat on Maki despite everything Maki did. Now it's Liz who has to make amends and work hard to keep that relationship from getting destroyed by her stupidity.

I see chapter 12 as a turning point for Liz. She cried at the end and realized she fucked up royally. Now she should be able to see what's really important in her life and work towards that. But it's not gonna be easy. She's gotta start by being honest with Maki and tell her what she did before Maki finds out from someone else. And Maki might be very kind but she's not a saint. She will probably want to break up, which is just fine. For their relationship to work Maki also has to stop being so submissive. It should be up to Liz to make amends and win Maki over again. If up to chapter 12 the manga was about Maki chasing after Liz and trying to get her attention, after chapter 12 it will most likely turn into Liz chasing after Maki. Because it's Liz who's gotta earn her happy ending.

last edited at Feb 12, 2020 5:01AM

joined Jul 23, 2019

^ That's very very Western.
Asians, and Japanese in particular, just don't fancy that stuff.

joined Oct 25, 2014

^ That's very very Western.
Asians, and Japanese in particular, just don't fancy that stuff.

Not really. There are tons of manga with that kind of stuff.

last edited at Feb 11, 2020 9:39PM

White%20rose%20index
joined Aug 16, 2018

^ That's very very Western.
Asians, and Japanese in particular, just don't fancy that stuff.

Yeah, guilt and expiation, that's typical Abrahamic shit.

last edited at Feb 12, 2020 5:54PM

M7
joined May 8, 2017

I haven't read the latest chapter, and I'm too afraid to

joined Oct 25, 2014

I haven't read the latest chapter, and I'm too afraid to

I'd say you're probably better off waiting until next chapter and reading both back to back, since this one ends in a pretty depressing note and sort of a cliffhanger.

joined Feb 18, 2015

I've seen plenty of wigging in theatre--Liz's hair is all the way down to her ass, that's a very high-cut short hairdo, and there's not the slightest hint of dark hair at her nape. I guess it's supposed to be a wig--but why bother with it at all if the big senpai sex scene is going to be with long-haired Liz?

Why are so hung up on that anyway? It's a manga. It doesn't have to be hyper-realistic. Besides the point of the scene was how easily influenced and manipulated Liz is. It doesn't really matter that it was wig and whatnot.

Actually, I was trying to figure out if the scene with long hair was memory or the present. It wasn't clear at all that the short hair was a wig and it really makes very little sense that she would be able to have a wig that is THAT SHORT with THAT much hair under it. it would make much more sense that the long hair is a wig, which would be weird.

Oh for fuck's sake--if a character is shown to have recently gotten a surprise short-hair makeover that completely changed the way she looks, then in a subsequent scene she is shown back looking the way she did before without any explanation (not even a short-hair wig lying on the floor) it's beyond fatuous to say "It's a manga--it's not supposed to be hyper-realistic."

Well, I don't see anyone else having problems understanding what was going on, so....

Now you do...

As for the blame game, why hasn't anyone noted the power dynamic of the situation? Not only did Sumire continue to sexually assault a drunk woman after being told to stop, but she is also paying sponsorship money to that woman, putting her in a position of power over her. Liz's manager failed to be there to protect her client for the day, which put Sumire in the position to be the person in charge of everything, from the make-over to where they went to eat, and the sexual harassment started during the makeover.

Yes, Liz fucked up, big time! She should have asked to be taken home right after the shoot, regardless of how impolite that is and how against standard practices in the industry it is. But if she didn't already know that Sumire was trying to get her in bed, she's an idiot. The fact that Liz was drunk, and knew she was too drunk, believe it or not, actually DOES (scientifically) make a difference. A person who is drunk is not able to give consent and decision making is impacted in ways that can lead people to do things they never would do sober. People who say that being drunk makes you your more honest self are just wrong. The fact that she said no and they somehow ended up in bed anyway and she was drunk, and Sumire is in a power position over her, places this in the rape category in my opinion. I doubt that Liz will feel that way after the fact, and, actually, that is accurate for the situation as well. Many women in a similar situation would feel guilt as opposed to feeling victimized. When you consider that Liz clearly didn't figured out that Sumire is a manipulator back when they were in school, it's not surprising that she's slow to figure it out now.

Minami
joined Jun 25, 2019

it's not surprising that she's slow to figure it out now.

What ? That she don't know back then it's fair, that she didn't realise now is just her being stupid. Normally you get suspicious about someone when he fool you once but Liz no.

joined Oct 25, 2014

As for the blame game, why hasn't anyone noted the power dynamic of the situation? Not only did Sumire continue to sexually assault a drunk woman after being told to stop, but she is also paying sponsorship money to that woman, putting her in a position of power over her. Liz's manager failed to be there to protect her client for the day, which put Sumire in the position to be the person in charge of everything, from the make-over to where they went to eat, and the sexual harassment started during the makeover.

Yes, Liz fucked up, big time! She should have asked to be taken home right after the shoot, regardless of how impolite that is and how against standard practices in the industry it is. But if she didn't already know that Sumire was trying to get her in bed, she's an idiot. The fact that Liz was drunk, and knew she was too drunk, believe it or not, actually DOES (scientifically) make a difference. A person who is drunk is not able to give consent and decision making is impacted in ways that can lead people to do things they never would do sober. People who say that being drunk makes you your more honest self are just wrong. The fact that she said no and they somehow ended up in bed anyway and she was drunk, and Sumire is in a power position over her, places this in the rape category in my opinion.

Liz wasn't so drunk that she couldn't tell what was going on. She said "let go" once but then Senpai licked her ear and Liz consented. That's how they got to the hotel room. Senpai didn't drag a heavily drunk Liz there. Liz went there on her own accord. But why did Liz consent? Because getting her ear licked is her weak point, her switch, as established in previous chapters, and she still had lingering feelings for Senpai anyway (that was pretty clear in chapter 11).

Let's not try to brush this off as some sort of rape-ish situation so that Liz doesn't have to take responsibility. Liz did what she wanted. No one forced her to anything.

I doubt that Liz will feel that way after the fact, and, actually, that is accurate for the situation as well. Many women in a similar situation would feel guilt as opposed to feeling victimized. When you consider that Liz clearly didn't figured out that Sumire is a manipulator back when they were in school, it's not surprising that she's slow to figure it out now.

She didn't feel like a victim because she's not a victim. She felt bad for betraying Maki. The main issue here is not Senpai. She's just a plot decide to spark things up. The problem has always been Liz herself, her inability to move on from the past, and taking her relationship with Maki for granted. Hopefully this is a turning point for her and she will start to cherish their relationship more from now on, and finally let go of the past.

last edited at Feb 13, 2020 8:33PM

joined Jul 26, 2019

As for the blame game, why hasn't anyone noted the power dynamic of the situation? Not only did Sumire continue to sexually assault a drunk woman after being told to stop, but she is also paying sponsorship money to that woman, putting her in a position of power over her. Liz's manager failed to be there to protect her client for the day, which put Sumire in the position to be the person in charge of everything, from the make-over to where they went to eat, and the sexual harassment started during the makeover.

Yes, Liz fucked up, big time! She should have asked to be taken home right after the shoot, regardless of how impolite that is and how against standard practices in the industry it is. But if she didn't already know that Sumire was trying to get her in bed, she's an idiot. The fact that Liz was drunk, and knew she was too drunk, believe it or not, actually DOES (scientifically) make a difference. A person who is drunk is not able to give consent and decision making is impacted in ways that can lead people to do things they never would do sober. People who say that being drunk makes you your more honest self are just wrong. The fact that she said no and they somehow ended up in bed anyway and she was drunk, and Sumire is in a power position over her, places this in the rape category in my opinion. I doubt that Liz will feel that way after the fact, and, actually, that is accurate for the situation as well. Many women in a similar situation would feel guilt as opposed to feeling victimized. When you consider that Liz clearly didn't figured out that Sumire is a manipulator back when they were in school, it's not surprising that she's slow to figure it out now.

Already during the makeover when Sumire "warmed" her up she didn't even push her away and her reaction afterwards was to say she was supercool...
Moreover, living is quick, Sumire seems to have drunk the same thing and we could say that she was also drunk too...

This naive side of Liz should not hide a deep desire to find her sensei, if Liz hated this one as she should, she would have already pushed her away in the morning... and screamed when Sumire started to kiss her, no she didn't.
And then getting undressed and putting on a mask and getting into bed, all of which wasn't done in five minutes... Several times Sumire asks her "you like it, don't you?" and never once does Liz contradict her and even takes a lot of pleasure in doing so!
And to say "how come there's no one left" is so ridiculous...
She knows very well what sumire had in mind, because liz herself was doing the same thing with maki...

The only positive thing is that normally she realizes that her senpai only thought of one thing: to take advantage of her sexually, to consider her only as a doll...
Quite the opposite of maki, who motivates and supports her above all, hence her remorse afterwards.
I know it's disappointing, but Liz really behaved like a fan girl towards Sumire!

last edited at Feb 13, 2020 8:17PM

2%20-%20jmdagff
joined Aug 31, 2014

I don't know how to feel ._.

Fullsizeoutput_6fd
joined Aug 24, 2017

Yup. Definitely a drop from me. Tired of all the “I have to cheat before I figure out my feelings yuri”

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