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joined May 29, 2021

Also yaaaaaaaayyy our Yearly dose of Harumatsu!! see ya all next year for their next interaction xD

That seems highly optimistic. Wasn’t their kiss in like 2020? And we’ve had like zero follow up since.

last edited at Jan 20, 2023 8:40PM

Tag%20rock%20snake
joined Aug 16, 2014

Has it really been 10 years?

Ezgif.com-gif-maker%20(1)
joined Jun 6, 2020

For as much as Citrus gets a bad rap, it honestly was kind of revolutionary. It's popular enough in China that putting a citrus in your work is considered a nod. Consider the artists that were originally in the anthology and now just spent time to make an illustration honoring this and speaking of its influence. Especially those now that those same mangaka are getting anime of their works as well.

Kinda crazy how much things have changed in ten years.

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joined Jul 29, 2017

I would just like to remind anyone who’s wondering why Mei acts so disinterested in sex that she was in a sexually abusive engagement with Amemiya for who knows how long and subsequently took that abuse out on the person she now loves. She probably still doesn’t associate sex with… good things.

Or that could just be my copium headcanon lol

Which indeed it is. There is absolutely zero textual evidence that Mei has ever had sex, let alone was abused multiple times by Amemiya. We do know for sure that he subjected her to an unwelcome semi-public kiss.

A number of readers have attempted to explain Saburouta’s clumsy and inconsistent characterization by pretending to get inside Mei’s head. If the author wanted to indicate such a motivation for Mei’s current behavior as opposed to the explicit explanations we have been given, she has had ample opportunity to do so.

while i cant exactly defend saburouta's clumsy inconsistent characterization AT TIMES, if you go back and really read the first volume its pretty apparent through mei's behavior towards yuzu that she has been through some shit. the way mei throws herself all over yuzu and completely disregards her boundaries is reason enough to believe that sleezy teacher not only took advantage over her but also completely butchered her perception of what a healthy, consensual relationship is. whether this is just readers head cannons or subtext is unclear as we don't have explicit confirmation BUT its still worth noting. also, citrus is a drama but its also a cute romance as well so the author's reluctance to delve into explicit sexual assault is more than understandable.

I don't think readers are quite aware of how much this defense of Mei as an alleged sexual assault victim, if accurate, actually amounts to a scathing indictment of Saburouta as a shitty writer.

Let's stipulate that an unwanted kiss, whether by Rapey-sensei on Mei or by Mei on Yuzu is indeed a form of sexual assault, and that Mei's attitude about physical intimacy initially is not a healthy one--the question at hand is whether Mei's current reluctance to engage in any but the most trivial skinship is primarily due to the psychological trauma of a number of undepicted and unmentioned off-panel sexual experiences which would have occurred prior to the earliest chapters of the first series.

It's a writer's job to establish the motivations of their characters within the text, and we have in fact been told why Mei is acting the way she is toward Yuzu when she says,

"Before marriage, there's dating, and we've only just started. And in order to respond to [Yuzu's] sincerity, I should properly go through the steps from the very beginning."

She goes on to say, "I would be lying if I said I didn't want to touch her, but . . ." then she leaves the rest of the statement hanging. This is all very much in keeping with Mei's overall depiction throughout both series as a hyper-principled rule follower. There has been no suggestion whatsoever that her unpleasant experience with her first fianceé, which was depicted in the first chapter of the first series and has never been recalled or alluded to again, has anything at all to do with her actions nearly 100 chapters (counting specials and extras) later.

There's the further point that the exact same behavior that supposedly has turned Mei into a [semi-autistic] Broken Bird also turned Yuzu from being fully committed to comphet into a gung-ho faux-incestous lesbian pretty much instantaneously, leaving open the question of what exactly the Citrus universe has to say about the consequences of uninvited physical intimacy.

EDIT: I’m editing this to clarify my poorly-expressed point, but leaving the original phrase in so that later responses in the thread make sense.

Trying again: Mei’s emotional responses in Citrus+ have been so repressed that readers have postulated several hypotheses to explain her affect, including that she is a traumatized victim of chronic sexual abuse, a theory which is based on a single scene in the first chapter of the previous series, or that she is profoundly neurodivergent, which is not based on anything in the text. In my view, these are both simply headcanon attempts to rehabilitate the author’s slipshod characterization of what was once the most interesting character in the series.

last edited at Jan 21, 2023 9:53AM

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joined Jun 21, 2021

There's the further point that the exact same behavior that supposedly has turned Mei into a semi-autistic Broken Bird ...

I have no chicken in the whole rest of the argument but i'd appreciate it if you didn't equate "autistic" to being traumatized or "broken", that's p ableist.

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joined Jul 29, 2017

There's the further point that the exact same behavior that supposedly has turned Mei into a semi-autistic Broken Bird ...

I have no chicken in the whole rest of the argument but i'd appreciate it if you didn't equate "autistic" to being traumatized or "broken", that's p ableist.

I take the point, but the term as applied to Mei is not mine. If you look through the rest of this comment section, you will see that the “autism spectrum” hypothesis is among the several headcanon theories that people have come up with to explain away Mei’s erratic characterization, even though it has even less basis in the text than does the sexual-trauma interpretation.

Miki_closeup
joined Mar 20, 2014

That seems highly optimistic. Wasn’t their kiss in like 2020? And we’ve had like zero follow up since.

Yeah, they act as if that kiss never happened. Maybe Sabu tried to start something, only to get cold feet. It's weird in any case.

Miki_closeup
joined Mar 20, 2014

I have no chicken in the whole rest of the argument but i'd appreciate it if you didn't equate "autistic" to being traumatized or "broken", that's p ableist.

You know people can be both, right?

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joined Jun 21, 2021

I have no chicken in the whole rest of the argument but i'd appreciate it if you didn't equate "autistic" to being traumatized or "broken", that's p ableist.

You know people can be both, right?

Of course i know that, never said they couldn't. My point was that it's not the same is all. bc god knows there are enough ppl who think autistic ppl are somehow "broken" or "less human" bc they act "robot-like" or some shit

Dark_Tzitzimine
67763073_p3
joined Dec 18, 2013

Matsuri has been more aggressive in approaching Harumin and Harumin has been thinking more about her future since the kiss.

joined Dec 17, 2022

Matsuri has been more aggressive in approaching Harumin and Harumin has been thinking more about her future since the kiss.

To be fair, for us as readers, it's been two years since the kiss, but within the story, barely 2 months. so I don't think it's regret but rather it's the rhythm of Publication of the work .if there are people criticizing the progress of the main couple and they are the protagonists, then imagine the secondary characters xd

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joined Jul 26, 2013

For as much as Citrus gets a bad rap, it honestly was kind of revolutionary. It's popular enough in China that putting a citrus in your work is considered a nod. Consider the artists that were originally in the anthology and now just spent time to make an illustration honoring this and speaking of its influence. Especially those now that those same mangaka are getting anime of their works as well.

Kinda crazy how much things have changed in ten years.

You couldn’t have worded this better! I agreed on everything

joined Jan 19, 2023

Also yaaaaaaaayyy our Yearly dose of Harumatsu!! see ya all next year for their next interaction xD

That seems highly optimistic. Wasn’t their kiss in like 2020? And we’ve had like zero follow up since.

Btw, do you think the rythm of publication can improve or it is impossible ?

joined Jan 19, 2023

The chapter is so "ridiculous" that it is very funny. after 5 volumes yuzu and MEI continue the same is curious. what is your relationship? an asexual. Is kissing forbidden in Japan? I don't know. Honestly reading comments I only see three types of citrus+ readers currently, 1 is an unconditional fan who doesn't care what I gave them saburouta that they are happy, a 2 group of fans who are literally no longer interested in the main couple and who are looking forward to focusing on harumin and matsuri, and for forgotten characters like Sara and nina etc. to appear, and a 3 Group of readers who are literally getting bored of this story or have literally stopped reading it. Concluded, looking to the future (in my opinion) sabu should focus on what is important And stop playing games, otherwise I'm afraid it will gradually lose readers, especially when there are more interesting yuri on the market today. Regards

A lot of people are basically the 3 at the same time haha. But I think the fact that Saburouta is playing with the readers and that the development of harumi and Matsuri relationship is really slow isn’t that bad but the real problem is : The rythm of publication.
It’s like 1 chapter by month or even sometimes 1 every 2 months it depends so It’s like 10 chapters a year. If if was 1 chapter by week it would be great in order to keep the readers and their interest, but now we just have to wait another month to see something that we saw like 30 chapters ago in yuzu and mei relationship. It is boring but at the same time exciting to see the next one because of the rythm of publication. Even if it is boring It’s only 1 a month so yeah 10 minutes by month will not make ppl give up with this manga cuz even if you don’t rly love it anymore, what can it costs you by reading it 1 a month ?

3001
joined Oct 20, 2022

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/citrus_ch08#3
My guess is Mei was sexually assaulted and involuntarily reaching third base. You cannot possibly just fools around if you say to someone "I could go even further", and then "I'll be gentle this is your first time?" I don't think Amamiya is dumb enough to score a home run. Of course, it could be just my guess, but those lines just rings an alarm bell or police sirens to me. For some people, these lines can be triggering.
Also, go read her shoujo stuff, try Choukyou Kareshi she drew plenty of these stuff.

Capturedsfdsss_x213
joined Mar 16, 2018

This is still going on huh?

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joined Jul 29, 2017

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/citrus_ch08#3
My guess is Mei was sexually assaulted and involuntarily reaching third base. You cannot possibly just fools around if you say to someone "I could go even further", and then "I'll be gentle this is your first time?" I don't think Amamiya is dumb enough to score a home run. Of course, it could be just my guess, but those lines just rings an alarm bell or police sirens to me. For some people, these lines can be triggering.
Also, go read her shoujo stuff, try Choukyou Kareshi she drew plenty of these stuff.

As I mentioned, this hypothesis makes Saburouta a terrible, terrible writer—forcing readers to pick through scraps of decade-old dialogue in order to explain a major character development for one of the series’ protagonists. If she wanted to blame Amamiya for anything except what we immediately saw, she had all the narrative time and space in the world to do it. But there’s never been a hint of any such thing in the text.

Truth be told, I don’t think the author had a very firm grip on where she wanted to go with Mei’s character once past the initial phase of the series. As I’ve said many times, the whole story started wandering once Mei and Yuzu became an actual couple and decided to move forward together. The forceful, authoritative Mei of the opening chapters needed to be ratcheted back in terms of sexual aggression, to be sure, but she’s become so nerfed that some readers end up casting around for explanations based on mere fragments of the text.

Capturedsfdsss_x213
joined Mar 16, 2018

Boggles the mind that people are still going on about that throwaway character who had what 5 pages of screen time?

Of course, the only valid theory is that Mei was replaced by a terminator who is on a mission to kill John Connor, but because of some time tomfoolery she has to learn how to love.

Will she ever complete her mission, who knows? Plane tickets are expensive, America is far away and she has a school to run.

joined Dec 17, 2022

It is understandable that a part of the readers is frustrated by the little progress in the main couple, but to justify MEI's attitude, with I don't know what a sexual assault made by a random character like amamiya who literally appeared in 5 pages and who has not been mentioned in 15 volumes is as much as telling saburouta to stop being a mangaka and start a XD Bakery. No "sexual assault" justifies why yuzu had to spend her birthday with harumin instead of MEI, nor that it was matsuri who had to choose the gift for yuzu.the only unknown about MEI is what happened to her mother, and if saboruota "hates MEI's character" XD XD XD, it's a joke but sometimes I get the impression that if XD. we started the Volume 6 and we will see if we continue with the frustrations for both the main couple and the secondary ones, or see a real development of the relationships, the future will tell

last edited at Feb 2, 2023 5:36AM

Pocchi-avatar2
joined Jun 15, 2021

I was a multiple sexual assault victim, so those two familiar sentences trigger me.

This is why, personally ,I never really care about whether they sleep together or not. Sex is not the end all be all.

Xxaaezvi
joined Oct 1, 2019

Paint drying is more exciting. Getting old very fast. I don't care if they ever have sex. But come on, there was more kissing in Citrus between Yuzu and Mei than in Citrus +. Seems that the author doesn't know where she wants to go with the story. Mei used to snuggle with the big bear when Yuzu wasn't around. Now Mei is just a robot, not really showing any emotion. I don't see at this pace how she is ever goinng to get the girls from where they are now to going to the alter. Seems a stretch to me. I know I wouldn't marry a cold fish, even though Mei seemed ready and willing at the end of Citrus. Again, paint is more exciting.

last edited at Feb 2, 2023 7:20PM

joined Dec 17, 2022

I was a multiple sexual assault victim, so those two familiar sentences trigger me.

This is why, personally ,I never really care about whether they sleep together or not. Sex is not the end all be all.

I repeat, I'm not interested in seeing yuzu and MEI have sex, what I want to see after 5 volumes is to see them act like an 18-year-old couple, who love each other, who are engaged and who live together, just that. Having said this, it is true that it does not favor citrus+, that the wedding took place in citrus, making this story very predictable and without drama in sight. And I come back with the question I asked before, now what? There are 6 months left until graduation(and from what I understood from saboruota in a tweet She wants to end citrus+ at graduation, not at the wedding, but I'm not sure), if She continues with this rate of publication, that's like 5 more volumes, will we see a real advancement of the MEI character? We will know what the hell is going through their heads Harumin and matsuri? and the other secondary characters like himeko, shirapon, the missing sara and nina, what? . In my opinion, perhaps what this work needs is a Skip time (of a few months) and a more constant publication rate. Greetings

last edited at Feb 6, 2023 4:37AM

Pocchi-avatar2
joined Jun 15, 2021

Another way of seeing the "no sex" idea in this manga, is to go back to the sequence Chapter June 16 Part 1,then backward to Chapter 41, then forward to Chapter June 16 Part 2. It was Yuzu herself who told Mei she wanted to hold off even from touching Mei because she felt that she still does not understand Mei enough.ie, the relationship has to start over. (which is also what Mei told Matsuri before in June 2 ).
Yuzu still has some abandonment issues (such as refusing to wait for Mei getting the crepes in the festival during the lost ring incident).

So this is actually a "proper" way of dating, with sex being the last thing to do. It is almost as if this is an arrangement marriage, being no sex before marriage.

As opposed to lusting after your step-sister you hate the very next day, then attempting to touch her at night and the step-sister knew it. (All back to Chapter 2). It does not matter whether the stepsister force-kissed you in the first place. (Chapter 1).

Just imagine if chapter 41 before the wedding pages, or chapter May 27, the two having sex right off the bat, sure it is entertaining for us, but there will be possibly future problems. One is a virgin, the other has a lot of wrong idea about sex because of being assaulted.

I wonder if people ever realize this. Whenever a panel showing Mei inside the library picking or holding a book, That book is actually called "The psychology of love for beginners". (Chapter 24 Yuzu and June 13th Harumin). you can look at this as to how much of a problem or cluelessness Mei has when it concerns love. The is the same person who does not know what to do in a date without Yuzu's dating book.

Just imagine what happened if the beginning forced kissing never did occur. The plot will be very different, or even make no sense at all.

last edited at Feb 8, 2023 8:53AM

joined Jan 14, 2020

As opposed to lusting after your step-sister you hate the very next day, then attempting to touch her at night and the step-sister knew it.

Citrus was more fun for me when it was stuff like that.

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

So this is actually a "proper" way of dating, with sex being the last thing to do. It is almost as if this is an arrangement marriage, being no sex before marriage.

This is not an inaccurate description of the situation, which just goes to show how ridiculous Saburouta’s development of this story has been.

Mei & Yuzu’s relationship was supposed to be the passionate, life-affirming alternative to an arranged marriage, not basically the same situation as with nice-guy Udagawa-san, only with a girl.

They were originally shown as two crazy kids who have fallen in love against the odds and who want to spend the rest of their lives together. There would be ways to create that overall feeling without necessarily depicting on-panel sex, should the author ever decide to try it.

last edited at Feb 8, 2023 4:05PM

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