If so, any sense of why that would be? There's a word for female yaoi fans, fujoshi and it's very widespread. Similarly to the boy in "Yuri Danshi" (Lily-boy) it's often seen as a shameful ultra-nerdy preference.

The dull-eyed girl in Swap <=> Swap seems to me to be more logical.

Is it their way of acknowledging their feelings yet distancing them?

Is their sexuality in motion? Are they bisexual?

Is it more okay to like beautiful boys (bishonen) than pretty girls?

I can see girls with the same preference in media bonding and becoming close friends, so maybe it's a subset of that.

Obviously Otome no Teikoku and Kami Eshi JK to OL Fujoshi are recent examples, but it's all over, in my estimation..

I don't know if I'd say it's a "big cliche," it's just that IRL a lot of women -- regardless of sexuality -- like yaoi/BL. There's even an autobiographical manga here that mentions it.

Yep, it's a popular female otaku thing in a genre often aimed at and drawn by female otaku, and I think helps make characters relatable (similarly to how Oshibudo might be for idol fans) while also allowing mangaka to write what they know (as in Kami Eshi JK) when they want to bring characters together over a shared interest.

The dominance of the term "yaoi" aside, with anime/manga being a subset of Western M/M shippers (from Kirk/Spock to MCU/Supernatural/etc), and with M/M shipping being seen as quite niche itself, it may be easier to draw a brighter line between manga readers and the BL fandom in the West than in Japan, where a lot of yuri fans and authors at the very least have had some exposure to BL and the romance genre more broadly.

last edited at Jan 17, 2023 4:14PM

... I mean, is it big? I feel like overwhelming majority of the stuff I'm reading doesn't feature that trope at all, but maybe it's because of the stuff I pick to read. Any other examples other than these two? (I only read Kami Eshi out of these 2 though)

... I mean, is it big? I feel like overwhelming majority of the stuff I'm reading doesn't feature that trope at all, but maybe it's because of the stuff I pick to read. Any other examples other than these two? (I only read Kami Eshi out of these 2 though)

Shinozaki-san Ki wo Ota Shika ni!

Also comes with some words of wisdom for this thread. :P

I don't remember BL coming up in anything I've read or watched, let alone BL fans getting together.

I don't remember BL coming up in anything I've read or watched, let alone BL fans getting together.

I can think of one Yuri like this that I've read, as well as one Yaoi and one Het amusingly enough.

A lot of rl lesbians are crazy about yaoi—and believe that a man shoving his dick into another man's ass is like the hottest thing. Just sayin'.

Can't say I've ever encountered that in anything I've read

A lot of rl lesbians are crazy about yaoi—and believe that a man shoving his dick into another man's ass is like the hottest thing. Just sayin'.

Is that really a thing?? Can't think of many things less attractive than 2 people who are literally the opposite of who I'm into having sex with each other

Hetero women read novels about dewy-eyed peasant girls who are kidnapped and made into sex slaves by macho viking beefcakes; it doesn't mean they want to be kidnapped and raped irl.
You need to be able to tell fantasy from reality. And accept that you enjoy things in fantasy that you wouldn't enjoy in reality. Peepz in Japan are very good at doing this; peepz in the West... not so much.

You need to be able to tell fantasy from reality. And accept that you enjoy things in fantasy that you wouldn't enjoy in reality. Peepz in Japan are very good at doing this; peepz in the West... not so much.

Considering some of the controversies with people being "betrayed" by Idols in Japan, I would argue both have people with reality issues.

@Akiji are you sure you replied to the right thread? Kind of a nonsequitur

Thank you for the replies, everyone. It's all food for thought.

Hetero women read novels about dewy-eyed peasant girls who are kidnapped and made into sex slaves by macho viking beefcakes; it doesn't mean they want to be kidnapped and raped irl.
You need to be able to tell fantasy from reality. And accept that you enjoy things in fantasy that you wouldn't enjoy in reality. Peepz in Japan are very good at doing this; peepz in the West... not so much.

I'll add my two cents. The Yaoi/Slash ML was founded by a lesbian, Jeanne Johnson, and roughly half of its members were lesbians. We're talking about the olden time when there weren't forums like this one and mailing lists were the only way to keep yourself informed and keep in touch with other fans. So yeah, it's not a new thing for non-heterosexual women to have a keen interest in Japanese manga telling stories of love between boys.

Since some find this surprising, I guess I should clarify a few points. First, at the time yuri was not a thing. Second, the authors of yaoi were all women. Third, a helluva lot of yaoi works are considered to be explorations of lesbian feelings and lesbian relationships genderbended as gay boy stories -- yuri in disguise, we would say today. Take at look at this recent manga by Yatosaki Haru to see a good example of the notion.

You need to be able to tell fantasy from reality. And accept that you enjoy things in fantasy that you wouldn't enjoy in reality. Peepz in Japan are very good at doing this; peepz in the West... not so much.

It's crazy annoying when dumb people campaign against games or comics or tv series because at some point something happens, something usually sex-related, that would be wrong if it happened in real life. In Japan, such stuff doesn't even raise a blip on the radar.

Considering some of the controversies with people being "betrayed" by idols in Japan, I would argue both have people with reality issues.

But you'll notice that in Japan they don't blame the idols and there are no crusades for their banning.

Also comes with some words of wisdom for this thread. :P

Words of wisdom indeed. Noice! XD

Third, a helluva lot of yaoi works are considered to be explorations of lesbian feelings and lesbian relationships genderbended as gay boy stories -- yuri in disguise, we would say today. Take at look at this recent manga by Yatosaki Haru to see a good example of the notion.

Hehehe, Yatosaki-sama sure had fun dancing on the "Is it yuri? Is it BL?" blurry border, didn't she? I guess we've reached the point where even the authoresses themselves feel playful about it.

Srsly, in our yuri-blessed day and age, it's impossible to read classics like "The Heart of Thomas" or "Kaze to Ki no Uta" and not realize that those mcs are totally girls pretending to be boys. (♡ω♡ ) ~♪

You need to be able to tell fantasy from reality. And accept that you enjoy things in fantasy that you wouldn't enjoy in reality. Peepz in Japan are very good at doing this; peepz in the West... not so much.

It's crazy annoying when dumb people campaign against games or comics or tv series because at some point something happens, something usually sex-related, that would be wrong if it happened in real life. In Japan, such stuff doesn't even raise a blip on the radar.

I mean, that is not entirely true. The whole reason otaku have such a bad reputation is exactly due to a campaign like that.

I mean, that is not entirely true. The whole reason otaku have such a bad reputation is exactly due to a campaign like that.

IINM otaku have a bad rep because their hobby is their life. They refuse to live up to societal standards.

If a Japanese salary-man has a stable job, a wife, two children, his own house, his own car, AND spends all of his free time obsessively playing a game where he is a serial rapist of lolis... why, nobody would have anything to reprove! Not even his wife lol!

I mean, that is not entirely true. The whole reason otaku have such a bad reputation is exactly due to a campaign like that.

IINM otaku have a bad rep because their hobby is their life. They refuse to live up to societal standards.

If a Japanese salary-man has a stable job, a wife, two children, his own house, his own car, AND spends all of his free time obsessively playing a game where he is a serial rapist of lolis... why, nobody would have anything to reprove! Not even his wife lol!

That certainly is a part of it, but things became much worse after one particular case.

If a Japanese salary-man has a stable job, a wife, two children, his own house, his own car, AND spends all of his free time obsessively playing a game where he is a serial rapist of lolis... why, nobody would have anything to reprove! Not even his wife lol!

You made me recall Genshiken. In Genshiken's after-graduation arc when Kohsaka gets a job in a game company as a game programmer, the first game he works on is a porn game where your player character entices and rapes shota boys and can even make them pregnant (yes male pregnancy don't ask) and force them to carry his children. Then in the Genshiken spinoff Spotted Flowers, which has Madarame and Saki as a married couple, there's this scene : Madarame is at home after work, playing a game with the sound turned off; Saki who wants to have sex tries to seduce him but accidentally turns the sound on; and she finds he's playing THAT game : the screen shows a shota getting assfucked who yells 'aah uncle stop, my peepee is getting all hard!' Madarame tries to give some half-assed excuses but Saki is so angered she leaves in a huff and refuses to go to bed with him.

I guess there're SOME cases when the wife isn't happy if the husband has a perverted hobby!

last edited at Jan 24, 2023 9:18AM