They’re both so supportive of each other! They’re both so nice!!!

Yup, I approve of this immense amount of cuteness

damn this is so wholesome!

my longest, exasperate sigh ever.... why can't these ever be about trans women? Not well oops ive magically become a woman and now that my bodies physically like this I guess it'd be wrong to not be a woman! Transition back?? Nonsense!!

god, it always winds up so cisnormative.

You do realize Genderbending is in itself a separate trope right? Genderbend and Trans can exist separately.

Oh didn't know it was alr here JAHAHAHAHAH

Oh dear. Looks like you've come down with a severe case of girl.

It's pretty much win/win for the girlfriend. She gets to come off like a saint and have her preferred sins.

My fellow Americans, or anyone else living in a region where abortion is illegal, I fear this warning is necessary since the topic came up in this. DO NOT USE YOUR PHONE TO TRACK YOUR PERIOD. That data can and does end up in the hands of third parties including YOUR GOVERNMENT. Irregularities in your period can easily be used to prove an abortion or miscarriage.

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/10/1097482967/roe-v-wade-supreme-court-abortion-period-apps

I'm glad that stood out to someone else.

You do realize Genderbending is in itself a separate trope right? Genderbend and Trans can exist separately.

Technically they could exist separately, but in practice, by implication they don't. If the genderbent people in these stories don't transition back, they'd be confortable with their "new" gender -- hence they were trans before.

You do realize Genderbending is in itself a separate trope right? Genderbend and Trans can exist separately.

Technically they could exist separately, but in practice, by implication they don't. If the genderbent people in these stories don't transition back, they'd be confortable with their "new" gender -- hence they were trans before.

That argument does not work if they were comfortable with their previous gender as well. I know that you are a fan of the "death of the author" theory, but sometimes it seems to me you go into absurdity with it. Genderbend and Trans more often than not are separate, and not just technically. The vast majority of genderbending manga were not written with any serious thought about actual trans people, in the same way the vast majority of futa content is not representative (nor was it intended as such) of trans women.

While you as a reader are absolutely free to pencil in whatever impressions and implications you want into the story, I still think it is utterly pointless to do so in these cases, imposing an interpretation upon a work that was never intended or likely even thought about by the author. Extra points for pointlessness if you then go a step further and criticise a work for not being something it never intended to be in the first place, as SillieHonka did.

last edited at Jan 17, 2023 5:22PM

I call false advertising on the title

You do realize Genderbending is in itself a separate trope right? Genderbend and Trans can exist separately.

Technically they could exist separately, but in practice, by implication they don't. If the genderbent people in these stories don't transition back, they'd be confortable with their "new" gender -- hence they were trans before.

Some people consider mind and body as different things

I think that the issue people have is that "genderbender" stories are treated as wholly separate from trans identity. It's treated as a fantastical or fetishistic thing, rather than a very grounded reality that many people experience. It comes across as something meant for cishet men to enjoy "safely," without having to consider any messy issues like gender identity or discrimination. Like how "pure yuri" will avoid any actual lesbian/sapphic identity in order to keep it "clean."

That's not to say people can't enjoy genderbender (as many trans people will tell you, it's super common to be drawn to GB stories long before being aware of their own transness), but I feel like the themes are inescapably trans no matter whether you use the term or not. And attempting to say it's somehow some separate, totally unrelated thing is at best tone-deaf and at worse active erasure of trans identity and perspectives.

They were cute both ways, so as long as they're happy I'm happy. ^_^

Gotta say I'm very impressed at this couple's ability to just take things in stride.

That argument does not work if they were comfortable with their previous gender as well.

I'd honestly be willing to consider these as falling under the umbrella of genderqueer, and thus trans, as well.

last edited at Jan 17, 2023 6:37PM

While you as a reader are absolutely free to pencil in whatever impressions and implications you want into the story, I still think it is utterly pointless to do so in these cases, imposing an interpretation upon a work that was never intended or likely even thought about by the author.

I find the combination of the above rant with the nickname of the person who made it ("UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins") extremely ironic.

I think that the issue people have is that "genderbender" stories are treated as wholly separate from trans identity. It's treated as a fantastical or fetishistic thing, rather than a very grounded reality that many people experience. It comes across as something meant for cishet men to enjoy "safely," without having to consider any messy issues like gender identity or discrimination. Like how "pure yuri" will avoid any actual lesbian/sapphic identity in order to keep it "clean."

That's not to say people can't enjoy genderbender (as many trans people will tell you, it's super common to be drawn to GB stories long before being aware of their own transness), but I feel like the themes are inescapably trans no matter whether you use the term or not. And attempting to say it's somehow some separate, totally unrelated thing is at best tone-deaf and at worse active erasure of trans identity and perspectives.

I would somewhat disagree. Take that new anime that just came out, Onimai. It is part of a long running "genderbend" trope which lies completely outside of real-life gender identity culture. While I would agree that it does stem from a "fetish" I would disagree with your assumption it is made for and by "cishet men." I understand as the viewer, you can interpret the feelings of a character however you please. Coming from the creator's point of view, however, I feel like there is a large difference between the trope of "I turned into a girl and now I'm suddenly acting more girly" and the trope of "I wish I was a girl and decided to become one." It's similar to the debate surrounding the character Bridget from Guilty Gear, who while created as a "femboy/trap" trope character has been widely interpreted as trans. Going back to the original comment I responded to, I think understanding that there are different tropes, none "better" or "worse" than the other, and that there is commonly some overlap between tropes which can confuse people (specifically people coming from a different culture than the creator) into thinking one trope (like genderbending) is a badly written or demeaning form of a completely different trope such as transgender.

All in all, you can perceive a character or a character relationship anyway you personally please as the viewer, but taking that personal interpretation and using it to attack/make generalizing statements about a creator or a genre is not the way to do it in my opinion.

last edited at Jan 17, 2023 7:03PM

To be honest, I think it's kind of obtuse to argue that genderbending -- someone's body changing to the other sex due to magic or fake science -- and transitioning -- someone deliberately changing their body's sex with real science -- are totally different and incomparable. These concepts are very similar, a similarity that many genderbending manga themselves discuss and use.

Now, I don't agree with the argument that manga like this are inherently cisnormative. This is fake science, we can pretend that (for example) the "genderbend disease" also changed Takkun's gender identity because it's all made up. I actually think the genderbending trope can potentially be used for some interesting and nuanced explorations of gender identity, like in the excellent Ore Ga Watashi Ni Naru Made. But saying that the comparison itself is invalid seems clearly wrong to me. The mangaka will survive a couple English-language comments criticizing them, don't worry.

debate surrounding the character Bridget from Guilty Gear, who while created as a "femboy/trap" trope character has been widely interpreted as trans.

...

debate

lmao, you can't be serious.

last edited at Jan 17, 2023 7:46PM

That argument does not work if they were comfortable with their previous gender as well.

I'd honestly be willing to consider these as falling under the umbrella of genderqueer, and thus trans, as well.

Also, there just are non-dysphoric trans people who are comfortable enough with their assigned gender but their actual gender makes them full on happy.
That's how I read characters like Mahiro from Onii-chan wa Oshimai and especially Minami from Magical Trans

yo this girl (roko) horny
i wonder if takkun is going to realize she doesn't have to hold back on her horn on account of maleness now too
lmfao

Slow down speedster, dude has been a girl for 3 chapters and yoh already want them to bang?

my longest, exasperate sigh ever.... why can't these ever be about trans women? Not well oops ive magically become a woman and now that my bodies physically like this I guess it'd be wrong to not be a woman! Transition back?? Nonsense!!

god, it always winds up so cisnormative.

I get your frustration but I always view these kind of works as a form of trans fantasy. "Wouldn't it be great if one day I'd wake up in my preferred gender, fully passing, without the social stigma of transitioning because I "didn't" transition, I just got caught up in a natural phenomena"

"... And without having to pay a cent" :v

last edited at Jan 17, 2023 8:30PM

That girl is living the dream frfr

Going back to the original comment I responded to, I think understanding that there are different tropes, none "better" or "worse" than the other, and that there is commonly some overlap between tropes which can confuse people (specifically people coming from a different culture than the creator) into thinking one trope (like genderbending) is a badly written or demeaning form of a completely different trope such as transgender.

Being transgender isn't a trope.

cute, kind of wholesome manga about a guy suddenly becoming a girl
people in the comment section having a polite debate
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