if this thread learns about butch trans women, he/him lesbians or bio queens it will probably explode

in terms of "oshi", i've usually heard it translated as "fave" but that's in the context of celebrities, and i guess that translation would be kind of an odd word to use for someone you know personally?

I think that's why crush kind of works in context. You wouldn't actually ask your oshi for their number.

if this thread learns about butch trans women, he/him lesbians or bio queens it will probably explode

Of course, the fact that this series contains none of the above means that those particular terms may well not be relevant to this thread at all.

Social Panic VS Gay Panic

Truly a powerful duo we have here :P

Useless lesbianssssss

For Grohl's sake why does the trans debate is back on this forum??? PLEASE, we are already 108 pages in, the story progressed and we will see their relationship develop. Can we PLEASE drop the same old discussions?

Anyways, for those who didn't see it, there is a Google Drive with all the bands/artists mentioned in the story so far. I will be updating if the author comes back to referencing music.*
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eezro_84dB1jGdWRxwJP3aBx1qXpYH1AT0mVaTf4_dw/

*I mean, Sumiko could just focus on the storyline developing at school at this point and the bands they talk about would not really be the focal point, but a part of me still hopes they will have some gushing moments and get too close after talking about a certain indie band they thought no one else listened to.

Anyways, for those who didn't see it, there is a Google Drive with all the bands/artists mentioned in the story so far. I will be updating if the author comes back to referencing music.*
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eezro_84dB1jGdWRxwJP3aBx1qXpYH1AT0mVaTf4_dw/

Many thanks for putting that together

i hope everyone of you is proud of themselves, cuz now i feel like crying

Sorry if this is weird to post this in the forum but I'm new here and there doesn't seem to be a way to DM people(?), so I just wanted to say to Behanort that I knew what you meant and I hope that you are feeling better now.

If Mitsuki was trans, the story could still follow a pretty similar progression without changing that much. The tomboy identity and the nerd identity are like two separate people, and it seems fairly clear that Mitsuki is more comfortable when she can present a little more masc :) Even though she's not trans, there are a lot of parallels you could draw!

last edited at Nov 13, 2022 8:28PM

Oh how I've missed Aya's bubbly embarrassment.

Mitsuki hasn't thought over her identity, beyond being a guitarist, so we can enjoy her cute panic without worrying about anything serious. The gender-nonconforming subtext is heartfelt, and wonderful, but only some of it is intended by the author. That's still subtext, though it can only help people see depth in what's already there and won't connect the dots between plot events. I love to see people make those connections to their own knowledge, in this case with experiences far more common among trans and GNC populations. It costs you nothing to treat the comparison charitably even if you blow it off. I just acknowledge any common points and can forget any labels and norms that the characters ignore or don't reference.

if this thread learns about butch trans women, he/him lesbians or bio queens it will probably explode

That's a terrible idea and I want to see that. I wonder how many labels feasibly suit the characters, and how many more we could just force through because they're unfalsifiable. Maybe Uncle is an ex-yakuza drag queen. We'll never prove who is cis either.

last edited at Nov 13, 2022 8:34PM

I'm still following this, but I think it's impressive (not in a good way) that this story manages to feel really dragged out while being served only 4 pages at a time... and sometimes said 4 pages don't tell what is happening too clearly.

I want to like it, with cool art and all that, but it keeps falling short for me.

I feel ya. I am impressed as well

With each chapter, much of the time I'm left thinking "That's it??". Often covers very little and then jumps to the next day with the next chapter.

last edited at Nov 13, 2022 8:36PM

So all that buildup is just over? They've made up inbetween chapters or something? Feels a little weak to me

I'm still following this, but I think it's impressive (not in a good way) that this story manages to feel really dragged out while being served only 4 pages at a time... and sometimes said 4 pages don't tell what is happening too clearly.

I want to like it, with cool art and all that, but it keeps falling short for me.

I feel ya. I am impressed as well

With each chapter, much of the time I'm left thinking "That's it??". Often covers very little and then jumps to the next day with the next chapter.

Gotta say I'm not feeling what you folks are. I don't really have expectations that a lot is going to happen in a 4 page chapter. If you took 8 of these chapters and strung them into a single 32-page monthly-manga style chapter, it would be a chapter where a bunch happened.

Iirc, author said it was a story about teens being troubled about their sexuality, NOT their gender.

There isn't a speck of evidence Mitsuki ever wished to be a guy. She's just not conforming to the standard of girls around her, be it what she wears or what music she likes, but that doesn't make her any less of a girl. People equating "dressing/acting like a guy" with "wanting to be a guy" are trying to erase butch lesbians from existence.

Wow… ummm…

What’s that high-pitched ringing?

Oh, a dog whistle!

…he/him lesbians…

offs!

Not THIS shit, again!

“Lesbian” is an adjective, not a club. If you say people that aren’t homosexual women (cis or trans!) can be lesbians, then the word becomes pointless.

I’m done with commenting on all things forever online. Sick of shit like this.

“Lesbian” is an adjective, not a club. If you say people that aren’t homosexual women (cis or trans!) can be lesbians, then the word becomes pointless.

So this is gonna blow your mind, but listen: turns out that out in the real world you cannot neatly place people into boxes and both "woman" and "homosexual" are reductive categories. We're not sims.
You don't get to decide where to draw the lines, noone does. "lesbian" is an identity, not just an adjective

You don't get to decide where to draw the lines, noone does.

So all that buildup is just over? They've made up inbetween chapters or something? Feels a little weak to me

The series is structured as a series of short 4 page scenes that together tell a larger story. Every chapter is set some span of time after the last, with whatever happened inbetween left up to the reader's imagination. No chapter thus far has directly picked up where the last left off.

This is the format the author has chosen to tell the story. I can get the complaints that people would like to see more of what happens in the interim, but at the very least the format shouldn't be a surprise at this stage.

Chapter 27: Putting the bag over her head was theatrically funny… the kind of humor you can see on screen/television. It reminds me of that actor who put a paper bag over his head labeled “I’m not famous” at some film awards. (Obviously, since I don’t remember his name, he’s not famous. I might be bluffing. Bluffing, buffing, buff—gasp! It’s Shia LaBeouf!). How funny. The paper bag is what helped me remember his name. How ironic.

You don't get to decide where to draw the lines, noone does.

They're not wrong. Words have usages. Dictionaries catalogue usages so people can communicate with each other, but no one person decides what a word means, and usages evolve and change gradually over time.

Gender and sexuality are increasingly accepted as spectrums, which means the terminology surrounding those topics are going to drift as that changes. It doesn't mean they're meaningless, it means the meaning to somebody else might be different from what it has been to you.

It just occurred to me, but 5 years from now when someone comes to Dynasty to read what people were saying about this manga at the time, they will be completely flabbergasted at how such an innocuous manga could create such intense reactions.

…he/him lesbians…

offs!

Not THIS shit, again!

“Lesbian” is an adjective, not a club. If you say people that aren’t homosexual women (cis or trans!) can be lesbians, then the word becomes pointless.

I’m done with commenting on all things forever online. Sick of shit like this.

i think you may have misunderstood what i was referring to - there exist butch lesbians who take being butch so far they use male pronouns even though they identify as women and explicitly not as trans. some of them are even pretty terfy.

yeah, it's weird to me too, but they're out there. my whole point was that whenever i see this thread it's blowing up into arguments about definitions around these issues, even though they're extremely subjective. it just doesn't seem worth it.

no, my comment might not have been very helpful in that regard

last edited at Nov 14, 2022 12:02AM

You don't get to decide where to draw the lines, noone does.

https://i.ibb.co/09mLgMs/english-language.jpg

Dictionaries catalogue usages so people can communicate with each other, but no one person decides what a word means

Isn't that the point tho? She can't decide a different meaning for a word and then demand that everyone follow her—instead of following the dictionary.

The statement "noone decides where to draw the lines" is quite funny. Everyone's language is a private language? Words have no definitions? Really?

You don't get to decide where to draw the lines, noone does.

https://i.ibb.co/09mLgMs/english-language.jpg

Dictionaries catalogue usages so people can communicate with each other, but no one person decides what a word means

Isn't that the point tho? She can't decide a different meaning for a word and then demand that everyone follow her—instead of following the dictionary.

The statement "noone decides where to draw the lines" is quite funny. Everyone's language is a private language? Words have no definitions? Really?

.......
yes..
that is a correct statement.
All language is based on interpretation.
to pretend otherwise is really.
really. dumb.

consider the word I used there, dumb: Oxford's dictionary defines it as "temporarily unable or unwilling to speak" or "stupid."

one was far more prevalent, I'd say even before the year 500 when english was born and lady was spelled leifdeigh.
getting mad over it is stupid (I see the irony)

TLDR: yes, everyone's language IS a private language, and words do have definitions that are often ignored.
Hope this helps!

oh also there are totally women who use he/him. so yes. he/him lesbians. I don't make the rules because making rules on these things would be really stupid when the only drawback is people in comment sections getting mad about "the sanctity of language."

. Forgot school Mitsuki was "like that" (awkward and shy as heck)
. Forgot the other side of Mitsuki was "like that" (innocently super hot and flirty.)

I feel you, girl, I feel you.

last edited at Nov 14, 2022 8:20AM

It just occurred to me, but 5 years from now when someone comes to Dynasty to read what people were saying about this manga at the time, they will be completely flabbergasted at how such an innocuous manga could create such intense reactions.

It's not even been a year, but I'm already flabbergasted by how the thread has almost 3k messeges.

last edited at Nov 14, 2022 1:17AM