motormind posted:

This story is about unspecified existential dread instead.

I love that you ignored me pointing out that what this story depicts exists and is actually not that uncommon.

a lot of the hate is simply because it depicts a relationship that isn’t what that reader wanted

Ah, the good ol' "you're only mad because you didn't get what you wanted" shtick, used to defend every example of gay-baiting since... well, ever.

I'm talking about this story specifically. What I said wasn't a general statement, I've read my fair share of stories where the two leads are literally dating until they graduate and then go off with some obligatory male insert character just so the author can say "well see, it's not gay". This is not one of those stories. The fact that there was no cheap cop-out man to somehow invalidate how deeply the two main character's feel for one another just goes to show that the author isn't trying to make being gay (or whatever Konatsu and Koyuki are, both orientation wise and to one another) some sort of phase that passes by in high school. People are literally mad on other sites (not so much on this one) because the main characters didn't kiss, or didn't explicitly say that they were romantically into one another. My point is that this kind of justification for why the story is "trash" is completely invalid, since it has nothing to do with the actual story. It's like hating on Naruto because he doesn't get with Sasuke at the end of the series.

The fact is that this story follows all the beats of a romance, then makes a sharp turn and starts being about something completely different, leading to a confusing mess.

This is something that is actually somewhat debatable. You can argue and discuss things about the change in pacing, and whether the introduction of the main conflict was jarring or not, you can call it a mess because of specific things that occur that you've picked out.

I'm not saying that this story wasn't similar to a romance, it chose to explore a specific type of relationship that is very similar to one. One can even argue that it reveals a lot about what's wrong with romance stories today- just because two characters are awkward around each other doesn't mean that they're forced to fall in love with one another. I'm specifically commenting on readers who designate this story as a bad one because it didn't meet their personal expectation of it being a romance, disregarding the actual content of the story and designating this as 'bait' because they went in with an expectation that was never going to be met from the start.

And if this were only this one work in which this happens then I would shrug it off and contribute it to either executive meddling or the author's own repressed homosexual desires.

Personally I find this argument very demeaning and close-minded. You can be gay and still write a bad story that features gay leads. You can be a man and write a great story with an all female cast. You shouldn't make assumptions about the author based off of the contents of their writing, just stick to criticizing the writing itself. There are people who refuse to read great Yuri stories like Otherside Picnic because it's written by a man. Good authors do their research so they can write whatever they want to write.

last edited at Mar 2, 2021 11:14AM

And if this were only this one work in which this happens then I would shrug it off and contribute it to either executive meddling or the author's own repressed homosexual desires. As it stands though, this kind of attitude is pervasive in Japanese popular media, and it frankly sucks.

Except for all the yuri stories, of course.

last edited at Mar 2, 2021 12:24PM

Ah, the people who held out hope despite that the "girlship" label was slapped onto this work early on are self-destructing. Stop getting overly invested in melodramatic friendship stories.

last edited at Mar 2, 2021 12:07PM

Can't we just wait and see the last chapter as well before deciding how it'll end?

Can't we just wait and see the last chapter as well before deciding how it'll end?

If one's opinion of the story were to drastically change based on whether the protagonists kissed or not in the final chapter, it would make that opinion pretty shallow. But I can't say I haven't seen some people hold the series to that exact warped standard, of it only being eventually worthwhile if it became explicit.

i don´t really get why people are so mad honestly, if you choose to keep reading after the official tweet and got disappointed that´s on you, it´s funny how people decide to read stuff that they know they will not enjoy
And even if we agree that the manga is in fact yuribait (wich i don´t) the author already said that you´re free to interpret their relationship the way you want, is not like they sudenly put male characters and force a relationship, is not that big of a deal

last edited at Mar 2, 2021 6:03PM

I'm okay with this either way. True yuri would have been nice, but it's possible for friendships to be as deep as romantic love. It would be nice to have a friend like this someday.

I'm glad this is ending because the story doesn't really seem to know how it wants to present its focus. The bond ironically seemed stronger between Konatsu and Koyuki earlier in the story than where it is now. I guess the only real development has been the resolve to become strong? I don't know, but this story dragged on for a lot longer than it needed to be for the amount of actual development it had.

Welp, I'm along for the ride no matter how this ends.

I'm not really sure why these 'gay or noy gay' arguments are still going on. Well, I know the reason, I just don't understand why some still think this dead, already skeleton horse is still worthy of being kicked. This read to me as a relationship that sits firmly in the ambiguous area between platonic and romantic love. If you want romantic love, that's fine, there are other series out there, but this kind of approach to yuri isn't any less potent than gayest series out there. It's like Futaribeya except not explicitly romantic.

I welcome series like these that are explicitly ambiguous. They're not just gay-baiting, but they're also not locked in to the outdated, binary way of looking at relationships as either just platonic or romantic. It's evidently just as potent regardless. People are still invested in this relationship to this degree even now.

I do agree that the series kind of lost me around the halfway mark. It was a slog to go through. I got its point, and it was a good point, but it could have done that in half the length.

last edited at Mar 15, 2021 3:51AM

Honestly, this was the one manga where I thought I'd be fine without any explicit romance because the early part did such a good job of showing how valuable their relationship was to them either way. But the more clearly I could see that, the more all their meandering annoyed me.

It's ended.
Of course, it's still salamandership till the end. And for me it's the best to stay that way.

Also, there's a tweet saying in English that Hagino-sensei is preparing for a new serial.

https://twitter.com/MangaMoguraRE/status/1375564175490048006?s=19

Since Hagino-sensei herself retweeted it, should we take it as confirmed?
If so, it's a good thing that she chose to continue as mangaka, contrary to what she had said last year during her unrecorded twitch stream.

also this:

Fine, my main hope for the ending is that they go on an aquarium date in Tokyo.

You must be really happy that it turned into reality.

"Do you like salamanders?" is the lesbian version of "The moon is beautiful, isnt it?" and you cant convince me otherwise.

Even if it isn't yuri, I think the story overall was really good! I think everyone deserves a friend in their life like this.

Thank you Hachimitsu Scans for working in this manga until the end, and thank you Hagino-sensei for creating it, wish her the best in her next project and life in general.
This one has been one of my favorite mangas for the last 3 years and I am glad I got to read it until the end

last edited at Mar 28, 2021 2:34AM

Glad I know what side of the subtext coin in ended on so I can read it for what it is without getting my hopes up

"Do you like salamanders?" is the lesbian version of "The moon is beautiful, isnt it?" and you cant convince me otherwise.

nah it's just a variation of "Do you listen to girl in red?"

I'm a bit disappointed, I was hoping for some more dialogue between them for the end
I feel like Kaede was to fill in the chapter
Anyway, thanks for the translation, I really enjoyed this manga and it's sad that it's over.
I remember that I started reading it because I thought it was "yuri" so I am not interested in his next project currently I only follow a few yuri manga

I am so glad it finally ends! What the fuck with the end anyway? Does anyone bore to spoil it for me please :D

@Adnegel
I agree with you, her name has been in my blacklist since almost the half of story went. I would stop following this author from her main works and doujins as well. Sick of those mercenary people like these.

last edited at Mar 28, 2021 2:50AM

You're a salamander, Koyuki

Do you like salamanders?

* dramatic pause, look into each other's eyes *

Yes

No one can tell me this isn't gay.

last edited at Mar 28, 2021 2:54AM

@Zoetrophy: "No one can tell me this isn't gay."
The author: "Hold my bloody pen!"

Same tag than Stretch applies : Super Friends

last edited at Mar 28, 2021 3:21AM

[Sigh]

Owari..

last edited at Mar 28, 2021 3:29AM

Damn, I can't believe it is over. But I liked the ending, it tied everything together in a pretty satisfying way even though there was no explicit yuri (F for the Dynasty Reader readers that are pretty much used to everything being yuri in a way lol).
Gonna miss these two dorky protagonists.

last edited at Mar 28, 2021 4:03AM

No kisses. No smut. No explicitly obvious declarations of love.
And it was still one of the gayest things ever.