god i have so much to say about this, to the validity i feel seeing this in media and to even more understanding... i dont have time now but. thank you for translating this !!

@sirflimflam

Wow, do they actually teach LGBT topics at school in Japan or was that kind of set up a bit of artist fantasy? I sure could have used that lesson here in the states when I was like 10 years old. Would have made my life a hell of a lot less awkward going forward.

As far as I know, it's similar to how it is in some states in the US and some other places, i.e. "there are some weird people who're snowflakes and choose to be different. Now, let's talk about why Jesus hates them [or whatever other rigid conservative viewpoint the school adheres to]!". I don't believe it is very in-depth. Hell, it wasn't even in-depth where I live, which is allegedly one of the most progressive countries in the world. Strong emphasis on "allegedly" there... =_=

Yay amab enbys

I wish there were more works like this!!! My particular case:

When I was a little kid I used to dress like a boy with my brother's clothes and I loved when the kids thought I was one, and if some were to ask "which are you, a girl or a boy"? I would just answer "which do you think?" And I would just enjoy so much when they weren't sure. I stopped doing that when I entered elementary school at 7yo, maybe cause I was always scolded for doing it, also because I was entering a Catholic school with a uniform for each gender and girls had to wear skirts... though my first year in that school I almost got expelled because i kept undressing myself LOL, maybe as kind of rebellion to the uniform.

I'm still not comfortable in women clothing but I don't believe myself a guy either, I think. I just like plain clothes that have no gender, I like the ambiguity. I love people who you can't really tell at first sight if they are male of female. If I have to choose I would say im a woman, but why do we need to choose anyways?? I would be happier if we didn't really need to adapt to just one label (man, woman, trans, non-binary) and just be yourself and do whatever you want to do...

Also I'm not really sure of my sexuality, I think I only ever fell in love with a girl (who I wanted to touch very much), the other relationships with guys I had all ended shortly cause I felt disgusted by kisses, hugs and stuff (I didn't want to touch them at all, I hated being touched by them). I also hate the difference my body has with that of a male (most of all, the strength) so I always got jealous and I hated when they forced themselves on me or when they tried to help me treating my like a princess or some fragile thing (but I myself treat girls that way though). I liked being treated like an equal by guys. But I also enjoy some parts of my body too (love my boobies and curves), I love the fact that I can give birth and be a mother. You can't have everything you want I guess... I don't feel the need to comprehend myself, like, I'm just myself and that's what matters. I believe humans can't aim to fully comprehend the world anyways.

Edit: I keep editing it because I find new things to add or come up with how to say it better, I'm having a real good time expressing my feelings for the first time! Though I speak Spanish so it's proven to be a challenge to do it in English.

last edited at Feb 2, 2019 12:17AM

Few things
1. Transgender acts as a tag as enbys are trans.
2. I wish they didn't have to degrade themselves by saying they are ill

For stories like this about queer folks whose identity very few people who aren’t queer themself would have received learning about, I wonder how a mangaka decides how much teaching to do.

Like, are they viewing it as necessity because they’re aiming for a somewhat broad audience? Are publishers telling them the story doesn’t work without? Is it just legit an effort at edutainment?

Anyway, this is one of the better ~about gender~ manga I’ve read on Dynasty in terms of not immediately alienating me as a trans girl.

@JazzLafayette
Fukakai na Boku no Subete o also does a surprisingly good job at showing "non-standard" sexualities and gender identities in an empathic and respectful manner, in my opinion. It's more story and less education than this one, but I really like it. (And I don't think it deserves the "moe/fetish fuel trash" label some people in its own discussion gives it.)

It's a shame that it's so unusual though, as in my opinion, realistic introspectives and stories about sexuality and/or gender are very interesting regardless of your own orientation or identity, providing you have an open mind, of course.

I hate how much of a jerk Miki was being, but considering it was out of jealousy and she was at least somewhat aware and accepting of Makoto's circumstances then at least we get some explanation as to the why. Doesn't justify her actions, but it does mean that she was less an ignorant bigot and more just emotion-driven. I think it's very possible that she understood Yuuko was non-binary and was simply pretending not to accept what was being said to get under Yuuko's skin. Would be nice if we get another story where sometime in the future Miki can reconcile with Makoto and Yuuko after becoming a better person, but only if that story is executed well.

That teacher during the flashback takes the cake for the person I want beat the shit out of the most before kicking him off a bridge. "I have an illness called transgender" was fucking infuriating.

last edited at Mar 15, 2019 9:29AM

Such a nice read

While I am super into gender fluid stories, I have to be completely honest and state that I did not enjoy the preachy moments at all. I will tell you this—a story, any story—is strongest if there’s subtlety in a way issues are addressed. Meaning, ‘show’ (not tell or extensively explain n’ ramble on) the reader what is going on that can be seen as prejudice. Showing what is going on is more effective, realistic, and not in your face. Simply showing relatable events is much better than having someone constantly lecture and preach what people are supposed to think.

I am a lesbian; however, I get incredibly annoyed if other members of the LGBTQ+Binary attack everyone who says they don’t know what something means. Which is why all this preaching was kind of annoying to see.

I loved it. That is all

I cringed a lot at Miki...not just because she was unlikable and clingy, but she also reminded me of myself back in middle school.

Late to the party, but to further comment on "What is being non-binary like?":

It's a difficult question to answer because "enbie" (short for non-binary) is an umbrella term for a very broad set of identities and circumstances. For Makoto, they didn't want to be bound in male expression, which is a pretty big issue because of the nature of masculine expectations for AMAB people. For Yuuko, their largest concerns were more about recognition, acknowledgement, and respect. While Makoto had more institutional hoops to jump through, both they and Yuuko had to deal with constant erasure.

Some enbies want to medically transition, and some do not. Some are comfortable with gendered clothing, while some much prefer androgynous dress. Some don't care that much about pronouns, some care a lot. We are a very diverse group with many unique experiences. Medical rights, marriage rights, the right to self-expression, are things that can affect enbie people, but they don't affect us all equally. But that's okay, because no group is homogeneous and education should be considered important when talking about any group.

There is also an element of colonialism that should be discussed: historically, many cultures had non-binary genders that were suppressed due to European colonization. Probably the most famous groups are two-spirit people of various First Nations, and the hijra of South Asia. For for some people, recognition of their identity is not just about queer identity, but about decolonization as well.

GeneralJ posted:

The part were Makoto had to say they were afflicted by a "disease" was probably the hardest part for me to read. But I liked this story a lot in the end.

Same, that was the most harder part for me... Because of the teacher ignorance, or even worse, because the teacher knew but choose to change it to make it "easier" for everyone else except the person who needed to be understood the most.

Maybe the story wasn't as engaging for me because I could predict the triangle since the start... But I'm glad because I understand more things now, when Yuuko said "I identify as neither female or male" that felt ... weird, like, if I tell you to chose a card from the desk you shouldn't pick the gap in between and then tell me to be reasonable with you but then Yuuko later says something like "Well Fuck sorry this doesn't have a name!" and that actually made more sense to me than using ambiguous pronouns or negative terms to describe you, This is just my opinion, but in Yuuko's shoes, I would prefer if people just call me Yuuko, I am Yuuko and I don't need more labels, it even sounds less forced when people talk about me or talk to me.

But in all honestly, in her shoes, if people start pestering me about my taste and what do I wear beneath my shirt I would just say fuck off.

last edited at Jun 18, 2019 6:29PM

I feel like the ending with Makoto standing up for Yuuko against Miki read a bit like an r/thathappened story, but it was important for Makoto's development as a character and Makoto crying afterwards added a bit of realism. I quite enjoyed this manga and I hope the artist does more interesting manga about LGBT+ topics. I feel the best part was the bit about Makoto having to dumb down their speech. It was heartbreaking to read because the tears running down their face as they delivered it was so dramatically effective.

Overall the translation was pretty good. The only thing I was confused by was the pronouns, which may have been a translation issue. I get Miki referring to people using the wrong pronouns, but even Yuuko used different pronouns for Makoto in different panels and vice-versa. Maybe the former is to represent Makoto changing preferred pronouns as they come out, but I was left unsure about what pronouns to refer to these characters by (I'm using 'they' just to be safe).

Aside from that, this was really interesting. I liked the artwork too.

Very cute and romantic. ^^
Thank you for the explanation OrangePekoe.

One of the think I like the most about this website is the fact that it's educational and has a strong and competent administration :)

I'm glad that the characters show different ways to be Nonbinary.

Hmm, I liked it. It read as more philosophical to me than preachy, the first two pages and last couple at least, which did color my view of the manga. And I do see how it gets preachy in the sense of it does have a strong message that it unequivocally stands by.

Miki actually reads like way less of a pure asshole on re-read. Mostly because it becomes clear her provocations aren't just due to the gender stuff but also emotionally-driven. Still immature but more understandable.

I've long since accepted I'll never fully understand what it means to be a different gender from what you're assigned at birth. It doesn't click for me, what that means, what it feels like to live with that etched into you. For me personally it's because I get caught up in a lot of societal influence stuff. Like in a society with no gender, all of these concepts wouldn't exist right? But then I just have to think about sexual orientation or culture or whatever else to realize it doesn't matter. This is the world we live in and those are the concepts we are defined by and then react to. Given that, being transgender makes sense. It is just how things are.

And well, I think this manga did a good job of showing something like that. It's that question of "what is love" taken on from a different angle with the same answer as many other works.

that was really amazing,and kinda informative as well

Their situation feels very real to me, I wasn’t out, or friends with any out people in high school, but even in college theres a ton of people (myself kinda included) that can only exist in a fragmented state at best, or only in certain contexts. LGBT people dealing with shitty teachers and shittier counselors seems like a pretty universal experience. I can only hope that as Makoto and Yuuko grow older they’re able to find a space to exist in comfortably. It’s not easy to get there, but those places we can exist in are out there. Right now they have each other, but hopefully one day they will have a wide support network of friends and loved ones who accept and cherish them as they are.

my take on the bad mouthing girl:
There are lots of people who have problem with things or act like that, but actually have something else they compensate for.

Be nice and respectful to peps around you. Even if you dont understand it, be nice^^ We all deserve some niceness

I felt a bit sick when Makoto described it as an illness, I am not 100% sure why but I am uncomfortable with people who are just different from neurotypical, being described as ill or disabled, even in cases where there is a disability/disorder, I just don't know about calling them as ill, that says that something is wrong with them does it not? That there's something that needs fixing.

I felt a bit sick when Makoto described it as an illness, I am not 100% sure why but I am uncomfortable with people who are just different from neurotypical, being described as ill or disabled, even in cases where there is a disability/disorder, I just don't know about calling them as ill, that says that something is wrong with them does it not? That there's something that needs fixing.

In context of the manga, Makoto is pretty much being forced to explain to a bunch of people who have no idea what this kind of thing could be in the simplest terms possible. When talking about dissonance between mental and physical states, the easiest thing that can be understood is saying it's a type of illness. It sucks, but for a long time information about gender and sexuality types have been rooted in heteronormative medical terms and that means it's harder to describe these sorts of things without reverting to outdated explanations.

And, who knows, maybe it was a mistranslation, but without the raws there's no way to tell. I'd also think it'd be dishonest to localize it to be less jarring because the whole situation is supposed to be a bit shocking. Makoto is lying about themself to a bunch of people. There's no softening that up.

Miki obviously has her own context, but I think what irks about her is how easily offended she is about it all. We obviously can't hear tone or volume in manga, but I assume Yuuko was explaining her identity in a normal voice. What irks about Miki is that she is like so many people out there who get mad when they get corrected. They want you to fit into their box for you, and it's not about whether that's true or not, it's about feeling like they know everything. It's not about you, Miki's of the world, and you don't have to understand. You just have to not be an asshole about it.

That she gets shading afterwards with her being in love with Makoto is irrelevant because her actions are still the same as those of every other person who refuses to finds the idea of someone explaining themselves as offensive.

Oooog, that was a rough read. Had plenty of experience myself with "superficially accepting right up until they Aren't" types like Miki and the teacher.

I felt a bit sick when Makoto described it as an illness, I am not 100% sure why but I am uncomfortable with people who are just different from neurotypical, being described as ill or disabled, even in cases where there is a disability/disorder, I just don't know about calling them as ill, that says that something is wrong with them does it not? That there's something that needs fixing.

I don't think that's reflective of the author's perspective or Makoto's, and I think it's supposed to be a bit sickening. The teacher swapped out Makoto's self-affirming speech for a pathologizing one that fit with his limited understanding, because he thought that would be more "comprehensible" (which both hurt Makoto to read and hurt Yuuko to hear Makoto read it, and ensured that none of the other students got a genuine understanding of the complexity of gender).