Wow I was so excited for a confession chapter, but after reading this my soul has just died

I was loving this manga until now, but this might actually be the stupidest take on the "misunderstood confession" trope I've ever seen

I don't think that it's a misunderstood confession, but rather Ms landlord conditioned herself to not believe that a girl she loves would love her back, as the chapter where she meets her old highschool friend might suggest Ms landlord is forcefully (and vainly) rejecting her lesbianism

I suppose that serves as a good reminder that that contract is a rather pathological thing to begin with. I think it's good to show at least one bad consequence of that...
... besides, the happier ending is probably still coming :P

last edited at Aug 9, 2020 4:54AM

Lead, uranium and landladyum - densest stuffs ever.

I dunno guys, the title is literally “Even If It Was Just Once, I Regret It”. Landlady obviously feels really guilty about having sex with her drunk and can’t imagine that Kozuka would ever actually like her outside of the weird contract (but the contract’s existence itself is pretty sus too tbh, like, romantic/sexual favors for rent is pretty yikes on an abuse of power level no matter how nice you are about it, why does Japan always seem so weird about that kind of thing).

I think landlady has some baggage and low self-esteem, and I think the misunderstood confession fits, even if it’s a trope that’s done to death. I think it’d would be boring if they got together for real now anyway.

why does Japan always seem so weird about that kind of thing

haha Japan so weird people definitely never prostitute themselves for rent in Western countries

Tell her it's NOT part of the contract!!! Ugh, I love this manga.

why does Japan always seem so weird about that kind of thing

haha Japan so weird people definitely never prostitute themselves for rent in Western countries

Or make porn about sex for grades or blackmail (like shoplifting teens).

why does Japan always seem so weird about that kind of thing

haha Japan so weird people definitely never prostitute themselves for rent in Western countries

That’s not what I meant. It’s the framing.

We’re supposed to like landlady, right? Having someone prostitute themselves for rent in your building is a pretty shitty thing to do, but the manga treats it like it isn’t shitty and that landlady ultimately isn’t shitty for doing it, even if she feels guilty for it.

Abusive dynamics are framed as neutral or good in manga all the time and I don’t really like it. That’s all.

Abusive dynamics are framed as neutral or good in manga all the time and I don’t really like it. That’s all.

Yeah, I get you. It doesn't even matter if it's yuri or het or whatever, it's just... weird. There's an uncomfortable air around it that never quite dissipates.

Imo it's even worse when it's played for comedy. There's shitloads of dumb ecchi bait manga that get a kick out of constantly humiliating their cover girls for laughs, or putting them in positions where they have to sexually demean themselves for some reason, and it's just vaguely uncomfortable to me when it isn't addressed as fundamentally fucked up.

We’re supposed to like landlady, right? Having someone prostitute themselves for rent in your building is a pretty shitty thing to do, but the manga treats it like it isn’t shitty and that landlady ultimately isn’t shitty for doing it, even if she feels guilty for it.

Prostitute? They have done it ONE time and the rest of the services are just normals services.It's not like she have forced her to do anything humiliating.Heck, it'snot like she shave forced her to do any of the services. You both make it sound like MC had to have sex and do ecchi play to the landladywhen they just have done normals things so far,beside the initial service.

I think it’d would be boring if they got together for real now anyway.

Now what ? You know it's bound to happen by the end of it right ?

Abusive dynamics are framed as neutral or good in manga all the time and I don’t really like it. That’s all.

Can I introduce you to Twilight or 50 Shades of Grey? The idea that glorifying abusive relationships in fiction is a uniquely Japanese phenonomon is utterly preposterous. I'd like to be able to read the comments on this site one time without seeing somebody haughtily look down on Japanese culture for something their own culture is invariably guilty of. If you don't like what you see, that's fine -- but I'm sick of people framing the things they dislike in manga as a "Japanese thing", rather than just saying they dislike it on its own terms.

Abusive dynamics are framed as neutral or good in manga all the time and I don’t really like it. That’s all.

Can I introduce you to Twilight or 50 Shades of Grey? The idea that glorifying abusive relationships in fiction is a uniquely Japanese phenonomon is utterly preposterous. I'd like to be able to read the comments on this site one time without seeing somebody haughtily look down on Japanese culture for something their own culture is invariably guilty of. If you don't like what you see, that's fine -- but I'm sick of people framing the things they dislike in manga as a "Japanese thing", rather than just saying they dislike it on its own terms.

True. It’s one thing if one says they dislike it in manga, but to say it’s a “Japan thing” is assumptive. Especially how we always coin Japan as “weird.” If I see international foreigners talking about my country in a general sense like that just purely based mangas, I would be pissed

last edited at Aug 9, 2020 5:46PM

We’re supposed to like landlady, right? Having someone prostitute themselves for rent in your building is a pretty shitty thing to do, but the manga treats it like it isn’t shitty and that landlady ultimately isn’t shitty for doing it, even if she feels guilty for it.

Prostitute? They have done it ONE time and the rest of the services are just normals services.It's not like she have forced her to do anything humiliating.Heck, it'snot like she shave forced her to do any of the services. You both make it sound like MC had to have sex and do ecchi play to the landladywhen they just have done normals things so far,beside the initial service.

You know, having reread it I think I misremembered the beginning. Kozuka tried to do actual chores at first, but was useless at it, so she tried to initiate sex to pay her bills, but landlady could tell she didn't want to and they ended up just spooning instead. And then after that her service was like, hugging and hand-holding and later on kissing. Yeah, I was mischaracterizing it, my bad

I think it’d would be boring if they got together for real now anyway.

Now what ? You know it's bound to happen by the end of it right ?

Obviously it's gonna happen--that's the whole point. But I think it'd be boring if it happened now. The story has a lot more room to tell itself, and I don't think they'll actually get together until after the contract is done.

last edited at Aug 9, 2020 6:20PM

Abusive dynamics are framed as neutral or good in manga all the time and I don’t really like it. That’s all.

Can I introduce you to Twilight or 50 Shades of Grey? The idea that glorifying abusive relationships in fiction is a uniquely Japanese phenonomon is utterly preposterous. I'd like to be able to read the comments on this site one time without seeing somebody haughtily look down on Japanese culture for something their own culture is invariably guilty of. If you don't like what you see, that's fine -- but I'm sick of people framing the things they dislike in manga as a "Japanese thing", rather than just saying they dislike it on its own terms.

True. It’s one thing if one says they dislike it in manga, but to say it’s a “Japan thing” is assumptive. Especially how we always coin Japan as “weird.” If I see international foreigners talking about my country in a general sense like that just purely based mangas, I would be pissed

Literally when did I say it was a uniquely Japanese thing? Obviously it happens everywhere. (For the record, Twilight isn't really as bad as its reputation. But 50 Shades of Grey is worse than its.) And anyway, just saying "well it happens here too" isn't a real argument. That's a tu quoque argument.

But it's something I happen to notice more in manga and anime because Japanese society is more conservative than American society and social hierarchies just matter a lot more there. I'm not trying to like, make Japan feel bad by saying I think they could be better about some stuff, I'm just saying I think it could be better about some stuff. For what it's worth, I still really love Japan. But I think I'm allowed to criticize it sometimes too.

last edited at Aug 9, 2020 6:38PM

How the tables are turning

I’ve said “WHAT?” so many times during this chapter that it’s lost all meaning. Useless lesbians, useless!

Glasses is actually being the opposite of Useless right now

True. It’s one thing if one says they dislike it in manga, but to say it’s a “Japan thing” is assumptive. Especially how we always coin Japan as “weird.” If I see international foreigners talking about my country in a general sense like that just purely based mangas, I would be pissed

But it's something I happen to notice more in manga and anime because Japanese society is more conservative than American society and social hierarchies just matter a lot more there. I'm not trying to like, make Japan feel bad by saying I think they could be better about some stuff, I'm just saying I think it could be better about some stuff. For what it's worth, I still really love Japan. But I think I'm allowed to criticize it sometimes too.

The point is that characterizing a culture and its people purely by its media, with no other real-life evidence to back it up, is something I would be personally skeptical of doing. It amounts to mistaken stereotyping, as media is a product of not just contemporary social values but also the history of that medium, the specific community it originates from, messaging or lack thereof that the authors are trying to spread, what the author personally enjoys creating, and etc.

It's like saying "the glorification of violence and guns in movies and video games is pretty yikes, why is America always so weird about that kind of thing". You could try to draw the conclusion that the reason such violence is present in media is because of American society. But the actual truth is likely to be far more complex than that, so saying that "[an entire country] could be better about some stuff", through a conclusion reached by consuming fictional media, does not come off well. The argument and conclusion don't really match up.

C'mon, miss dense-lady! I know that you feel a bit guilty about having sex with a drunkard, but she's confessing right in front of you and you love her! There's anything more that she can do!? Even with the service thing, there's no way that you could not believe on her eyes and her dilutional reaction after that..

True. It’s one thing if one says they dislike it in manga, but to say it’s a “Japan thing” is assumptive. Especially how we always coin Japan as “weird.” If I see international foreigners talking about my country in a general sense like that just purely based mangas, I would be pissed

But it's something I happen to notice more in manga and anime because Japanese society is more conservative than American society and social hierarchies just matter a lot more there. I'm not trying to like, make Japan feel bad by saying I think they could be better about some stuff, I'm just saying I think it could be better about some stuff. For what it's worth, I still really love Japan. But I think I'm allowed to criticize it sometimes too.

The point is that characterizing a culture and its people purely by its media, with no other real-life evidence to back it up, is something I would be personally skeptical of doing. It amounts to mistaken stereotyping, as media is a product of not just contemporary social values but also the history of that medium, the specific community it originates from, messaging or lack thereof that the authors are trying to spread, what the author personally enjoys creating, and etc.

It's like saying "the glorification of violence and guns in movies and video games is pretty yikes, why is America always so weird about that kind of thing". You could try to draw the conclusion that the reason such violence is present in media is because of American society. But the actual truth is likely to be far more complex than that, so saying that "[an entire country] could be better about some stuff", through a conclusion reached by consuming fictional media, does not come off well. The argument and conclusion don't really match up.

Look, I didn't reach this conclusion just by consuming media. I'm proficient in Japanese and am on my to becoming fluent, I keep up with Japanese current events, and I'd love to do a term abroad there eventually, hopefully. It's a moderately conservative culture! There are issues with it! I don't know what to tell you!

But even if I had only ever consumed the media, I think it would be valid to come to a broad conclusion like that. Media is ALWAYS a reflection of the society that made it. And I think you can go backwards with a broad conclusion. If you keep seeing weird rape stuff in manga, I think it's only natural to think "maybe Japanese culture has an issue with consent". Or maybe if you wanted to be more diplomatic you could say "maybe Japanese culture thinks about consent differently than America culture does".

I think your example "the glorification of violence and guns in movies and video games is pretty yikes, why is America always so weird about that kind of thing" can actually be a valid critique of American society, even if I think video games as a medium are incredibly different to others by virtue of being interactive. To be clear, I don't think video games make people violent--I think people just like doing exciting things they normally can't. I think people get that COD isn't real life. But I DO think American society values violence and guns and the military, and I think some of that is expressed in what video games get made and which become successful. (But industry executives are dumbass trend-chasers too, and "successful" doesn't necessarily mean "most worthy of being called good".)

But seriously, you realize "Not All Japanese" is implied when people make broad generalizations like that, right? Do you really want people to say "Not All Men" whenever they complain about hating men? This is just pedantic.

last edited at Aug 9, 2020 8:24PM

My mind kind of erased the fact that I randomly checked this manga out mid-way back then so I got to binge it to the current chapter now. It‘s better than I gave it credit for. I‘ll be looking forward reading more about it~

Also I hope Setouchi, or Satouchi, gets in contact with her delivery girl again, there‘s rare cases a side pairing story piques my interest, but this is one of them.

last edited at Aug 9, 2020 8:57PM

'But seriously, you realize "Not All Japanese" is implied when people make broad generalizations like that, right? Do you really want people to say "Not All Men" whenever they complain about hating men? This is just pedantic.'

You realize that if you make sweeping generalizations in public, some people will be offended by them whether you think they're being pedantic or not? If you don't want to be dragged into as many stupid arguments about generalizations, don't make them, and qualify your statements up front.

Rhetorical laziness begets arguments. Fact of life.

Separately, speaking as an American, holy fuck are we weird. Or to take my own advice above, there are a lot of unpleasantly weird elements of American culture, to the level of "weird laws" and "lots of unnecessary deaths".

Japanese society is more conservative than American society

You couldn't live under this impression for ten days inside Japan without realising that it's a stereotype fabricated by a hostile foreign media that drives sales/clicks with attention-grabbing nonsense about how weird and controversial Japan is in ways that don't actually reflect reality. While Japan surely has its share of conservatism, the idea that it's more conservative than the U.S. is absurd.

Abe, while a conservative through and through, is surely to the left of Obama, for example, and Japan has never elected someone as openly far-right as Trump. The thing is that foreign media portrays Japan with an absolutely absurd Overton window. The JMSDF is maybe thinking about building an aircraft carrier? That must be far-right nationalism! Except, you know, pacifism as a national policy is extremely far left and shifting slightly to the right leaves you far, far left of Obama killing innocent civilians with missile strikes at countries the U.S. isn't even at war with (not to mention, you know, actually being in imperialist wars halfway across the world - also not a progressive thing!).

Prominent Japanese politician visits Yasukuni? More far-right nationalism! Except it's normal to honour your war dead - the U.S. does it too, and there are plenty of war criminals in U.S. graves. The only difference is that the U.S. won the war, and only the victor is able to persecute the loser for war crimes - nobody cares about their own war crimes. In fact, the U.S. is not even party to the International Criminal Court, and went so far as passing a bill authorising the invasion of the Netherlands if the Hague ever attempted to hold U.S. servicemen accountable for war crimes.

If you actually compare Japanese policies on anything to equivalent policies in the U.S., rather than holding them to some mythical standard that you don't meet yourself, there's no way you could come to such a conclusion as Japan being more conservative than the U.S.. Whether it's on healthcare, education, welfare, religion, the police, the military, gun ownership, international diplomacy, or minority rights, Japan has more progressive policies than the U.S. Virtually the only thing you could give the U.S. a point for is the legalisation of gay marriage, but in general Japanese society is much less openly hostile to gay people and was/is far ahead of the U.S. in other areas such as transgender rights.

Literally when did I say it was a uniquely Japanese thing?

"Japan is so weird!" - you're calling attention to Japan doing it, and by calling it weird implying it's not normal by definition, i.e., that it stands out from other countries uniquely. But to the contrary, it would be more weird / not-normal if Japanese media didn't feature problematic depictions of relationships, because problematic depictions of relationships in fiction are the norm around the world.

If you keep seeing weird rape stuff in manga, I think it's only natural to think "maybe Japanese culture has an issue with consent". Or maybe if you wanted to be more diplomatic you could say "maybe Japanese culture thinks about consent differently than America culture does"

Wonderful, you're really going for the Japan gawking bingo sheet blackout. Does Japanese culture have an issue with consent? The whole world does. Does Japanese culture have a uniquely bad issue with consent worthy of singling out? The US elected someone who brags about getting away with being a rapist president, appointed a rapist supreme court justice, and even the presidential candidate opposing the rapist president is probably a rapist too because the US's so-called left could never stomach a candidate that wasn't right-wing by international standards.

Meanwhile, a governmental body of the United Kingdom conducting a review of the police recently released a critical report stating that rape has been virtually decriminalized by virtue of the fact that the police no longer investigate rape, with less than 1.5% (and falling!) of reported cases being prosecuted. I'll take some shitty portrayals of consent (or lack thereof) in fiction over that any day.

But seriously, you realize "Not All Japanese" is implied when people make broad generalizations like that, right? Do you really want people to say "Not All Men" whenever they complain about hating men?

This analogy to 'Not All Men' doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. It's a complete non-sequiter. Nobody said anything about not all Japanese people being like that. My complaint is that you specifically singled out Japanese culture as being worse than your own country in regards to portrayals of abuse and consent, when it's really not. It's not that you made a generalisation that's the problem - it's that your generalisation is just wrong, not on an individual level but on a collective level.

It's frankly not worth my time to go tit for tat with you anymore.

Hope Japan sees this, bro

I dunno guys, the title is literally “Even If It Was Just Once, I Regret It”. Landlady obviously feels really guilty about having sex with her drunk and can’t imagine that Kozuka would ever actually like her outside of the weird contract (but the contract’s existence itself is pretty sus too tbh, like, romantic/sexual favors for rent is pretty yikes on an abuse of power level no matter how nice you are about it, why does Japan always seem so weird about that kind of thing).

To be honest, I sympathize with much of firelizard's arguments here (I decided to quote their first opening about the topic).

It's fair to judge a society based on a media said society consumes. Manga, or even anime, is a staple of, and in, Japan. And these are just one of the many media of storytelling Japanese culture has.

For instance, the Japanese YouTuber "Nobita from Japan" featured a story about how cheating or ntr is a favorite premise in so many Japanese drama and even in manga/anime (that, despite a couple of disclaimers he mentioned at the start of the video). He also laid out the reasons why, beyond the movies and the TV shows, cheating seems to be more common in the Japanese society than expected. Nobita-san was kind of surprised when the women he interviewed were actually okay with it.
(NOTE: just cuz I said "common in the Japanese society than expected" doesn't mean cheating is solely a Japanese problem, as Nobita-san pointed out in the video. Personally, seems to me it thrives where conservative attitudes are alive with the tendency to make sex taboo.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzNKTAv5fyA

firelizard said: "abuse of power level no matter how nice you are about it, why does Japan always seem so weird about that kind of thing"

It does seem like a pejorative attack on a complex culture IF YOUR KNEE JERK REACTION is to be defensive about a cultural flaw that exists in reality. firelizard isn't wrong, it's just that, something's lacking in the sentence. How? We can tie this to Nobita-san's exposition on cheating as seemingly accepted part in the inner-lives of the Japanese. Check out the stats he provided. He also said the cheating sites and apps exist in Japan (these also exist in North America btw, remember that Ashley Madison scandal?)

Japan is weird about some stuff cuz as a largely conservative culture (like any other conservative culture), it deems sex as taboo. Part of taboo-fication is sex as a power-play with abuse instead of a consensual one. NOW, is this a Japanese society problem? YES. Is this endemic only in Japan? NO. Does this mean that there are elements in Japan who are fighting against this trend? YES.

To be fair, there are tons of mangaka who don't operate on that kind of taboo-fication. I think the best example would be Cano and Nakatani Nio. For me, Cano enjoys their poly-relationships but in a healthy and comedic way, as seen in the manga with a long title I'll just name it as "Triangle". In YagaKimi, Yuu actively undermines Touko's desire for control; a control which could lead to Touko's self-destruction had Yuu not intervened. Here, we saw how the usual comphet of senpai-kouhai powerplay turned on its head in the context of a lesbian relationship.

last edited at Aug 10, 2020 5:33AM