Forum › The Little Bird and the Brassiere discussion
Honestly I struggle with the question: " If I enjoy this kind of story, what does that say about me"?
Well duh, it'd obviously say that you enjoy this kind of story.
More importantly, are you perhaps worried about what others would think of you?
No. I don't give a damn about that.
Nor should you. You enjoyed a work of fiction that has no bearing on or similarity with real life. The only time you should question yourself is if you heard about something exactly like this in a news story and said, "I see no problem with this."
Yeah I get it's fiction, and since it's drawn no actual 9yr olds were loved up in the making of this work. However it's still a story about a practically adult woman seriously dating a elementary schooler. At some point you have to draw a line. Let's say this manga didn't stop at just kissing , but instead graphically showed the two going "all the way". Would you still say it's fiction don't worry and enjoy? What about a eros age gap lolicon? The whole point is to show graphic sex between a child and adult. Would you still be it's not t real so have at it? What about a violent rape of a child? A lolicon snuff manga? You mean tell me you wouldn't judge anyone for being into THAT!?
last edited at Feb 5, 2020 4:22PM
Of course. There is only one difference between fictional lolicon and fictional murder: you don't like one but don't mind the other. Which is fine, but it's also just your opinion.
(And geez, you think this little story is bad? It's like people here don't know about Oshikko Sensei, or the Oni Chichi series, or Netsuzou TRap, or Higashiyama Shou, or John K. Peta or Urotsukidōji or 177013 ...)
last edited at Feb 5, 2020 5:14PM
Honestly I struggle with the question: " If I enjoy this kind of story, what does that say about me"?
Well duh, it'd obviously say that you enjoy this kind of story.
More importantly, are you perhaps worried about what others would think of you?
No. I don't give a damn about that.
Nor should you. You enjoyed a work of fiction that has no bearing on or similarity with real life. The only time you should question yourself is if you heard about something exactly like this in a news story and said, "I see no problem with this."
Yeah I get it's fiction, and since it's drawn no actual 9yr olds were loved up in the making of this work. However it's still a story about a practically adult woman seriously dating a elementary schooler. At some point you have to draw a line. Let's say this manga didn't stop at just kissing , but instead graphically showed the two going "all the way". Would you still say it's fiction don't worry and enjoy?
I would indeed. If it graphically showed all that, and then went on to show one of the characters beheading and disemboweling the other I would still say—it’s fiction, and that I was not morally culpable of anything.
How many books have you read or movies or TV shows have you seen where one character kills another, and in terms of that story it’s the best possible outcome, and you’re relieved or even elated that the character has been killed, perhaps in an extremely gruesome manner? Does this mean “you’re fine with murder”?
Certainly fiction can arouse disturbing responses and make us ponder why we react (positively or negatively) the way we do. Itou Hachi’s work certainly has the ability to arouse such responses.
But thoughts (in the systems of justice that I respect) aren’t crimes—actions are.
Yeah I get it's fiction, and since it's drawn no actual 9yr olds were loved up in the making of this work. However it's still a story about a practically adult woman seriously dating a elementary schooler. At some point you have to draw a line. Let's say this manga didn't stop at just kissing , but instead graphically showed the two going "all the way". Would you still say it's fiction don't worry and enjoy?
Yes. Just because someone enjoys the suspense or even the violence of a slasher movie, it doesn't increase their chance of being violent, because (again) it's not real. It's made for entertainment purposes only and isn't a how-to guide for your daily life. If you're a person who has a hard time distinguishing fantasy from reality, maybe you should steer clear of the more taboo fiction works. Most human beings do not have that problem, however.
The main thing to take away from discussions like these is that the people that are so extremely vocal about the evils of a certain taboo are more likely to actually be into that taboo in real life. If you see someone railing against homosexuals online, they're almost certain to be an intensely closeted homosexual, and deathly afraid of anyone finding out. The same goes for those who come out of the woodwork to condemn lolicon manga.
I would indeed. If it graphically showed all that, and then went on to show one of the characters beheading and disemboweling the other
Kiss in the Blood all time masterwork manga.
A blank page?
oh my sweet summer child
Honestly I struggle with the question: " If I enjoy this kind of story, what does that say about me"?
Well duh, it'd obviously say that you enjoy this kind of story.
More importantly, are you perhaps worried about what others would think of you?
No. I don't give a damn about that.
Nor should you. You enjoyed a work of fiction that has no bearing on or similarity with real life. The only time you should question yourself is if you heard about something exactly like this in a news story and said, "I see no problem with this."
Yeah I get it's fiction, and since it's drawn no actual 9yr olds were loved up in the making of this work. However it's still a story about a practically adult woman seriously dating a elementary schooler. At some point you have to draw a line. Let's say this manga didn't stop at just kissing , but instead graphically showed the two going "all the way". Would you still say it's fiction don't worry and enjoy?
I would indeed. If it graphically showed all that, and then went on to show one of the characters beheading and disemboweling the other I would still say—it’s fiction, and that I was not morally culpable of anything.
How many books have you read or movies or TV shows have you seen where one character kills another, and in terms of that story it’s the best possible outcome, and you’re relieved or even elated that the character has been killed, perhaps in an extremely gruesome manner? Does this mean “you’re fine with murder”?
Certainly fiction can arouse disturbing responses and make us ponder why we react (positively or negatively) the way we do. Itou Hachi’s work certainly has the ability to arouse such responses.
But thoughts (in the systems of justice that I respect) aren’t crimes—actions are.
I'm not suggesting liking this stuff should be a crime. I'm not saying liking this stuff makes you a pedophile either. I'm just saying there are lines. To enjoy watching the hero mow through the murderous gang of thugs who were killing old ladies for their wellfare checks is understandable. To enjoy watching someone rape and murder a child is disturbing. Edit:I would definitely worry about the state of mind of anyone, including me, who would be into that.
Edit2: For the record I try to not judge other people. My struggle is with my internal lines. I do kind of get annoyed at people who get mad at the hate posts. First of all you have to see, how this stuff can touch a nerve. I once heard someone say: " Once you bring children or religion into a conversation all reason and logic, go out the window. Second: It does no good. We go through this exact conversation after every lolicon, and we're not going to get the haters to stop. (see previous ^) So it's up the fans to put an a end to this cycle. And do me a favor please stop starting your posts with the phrase "I don't see how anyone can be (offended, mad, angry etc...)" I mean come on! It's and adult making out with a child. You can't possibly be surprised that some people are going to have a bad reaction to that.
last edited at Feb 5, 2020 5:42PM
A blank page?
Nevermind, got in.
I wonder where do ya'll draw the line.
10 yo?
6yo?
1yo?
Lines are for the weak.
Certainly, the best part in Itou Hachi works is the comment section~
BTW, this is a 9/10 for me. They aren't sisters, so that's a minus for me-
I want some Mochi and Itou collab-
Reading about something is not "literally saying you're okay" with whatever behavior is depicted in the fiction. (That's not really what the original poster was saying, I know, which is why I'm not using an auto-quote.)
When I made that statement, I wasn’t talking about the people saying they like this sort of lolicon stuff. I was referring to the people making comments like “if you don’t like this, you’re against yuri”, regarding the German (and likely US) decision to not publish this piece in the localized anthology. The decision to not openly publish even fictionalized loli is a pretty obvious one. Especially in countries where even fictional depictions of pedophilia are counted the same as real life pedophilia. Idiots going around insisting that loli should be as wildly accepted in the mainstream as yuri and that finding loli - and especially explicit loli like this - distasteful means you’re also against yuri are the ones that give the assholes lumping real life pedos in with LGBT+ ammo.
There are certain genres that naturally have more critics than others. Stuff involving children involved in sexual relationships is always going to be one of them. There’s just no getting around that.
I, personally, missed the tag because I wasn’t paying sufficient attention. Usually, I just skip anything tagged lolicon. That’s on me. Like I said, I’m not saying this should be taken down, just that I’m mentally making a note to give Itou Hachi a hard pass going forward. People can like whatever they want and if reading/writing/drawing/etc stuff like this quenches the urge to go out and do something to an actual child, then I’m all for it. I’m simply very opposed to people insisting you have to accept and like stuff like this in order to like yuri. Refusing to publish it and not wanting to read it doesn’t make you anti-yuri.
My line, as a PUBLISHER, not a lawyer of any kind, would be to refuse publish rapey material, kids or not. Let all the rest, including "all the way" but with a minimum of style and consent (no outright physical violence involved, if you prefer).
Online is another story entirely. Publish any rapey disgusting sadist murderrape with pupy and disabled blind trisomic, I don't care. In fact I did read stuff like that, and I felt nothing. Only pussies can't stomach ridiculous fictional settings like these.
Johnb, you might consider not being honest with yourself... For the sake of loli I doubt anyone reading itou hachi continuously can be without our common perversion. Confess, man, we're between men of hum, "culture"...
And nothing is a crime in your head. [VPN mode=off]
last edited at Feb 5, 2020 7:53PM
Reading about something is not "literally saying you're okay" with whatever behavior is depicted in the fiction. (That's not really what the original poster was saying, I know, which is why I'm not using an auto-quote.)
When I made that statement, I wasn’t talking about the people saying they like this sort of lolicon stuff.
Right—that’s why I explicitly said in the clearest terms I possibly could that I was making a different point than you were.
My line, as a PUBLISHER, not a lawyer of any kind, would be to refuse publish rapey material, kids or not. Let all the rest, including "all the way" but with a minimum of style and consent (no outright physical violence involved, if you prefer).
Online is another story entirely. Publish any rapey disgusting sadist murderrape with pupy and disabled blind trisomic, I don't care. In fact I did read stuff like that, and I felt nothing. Only pussies can't stomach ridiculous fictional settings like these.
Johnb, you might consider not being honest with yourself... For the sake of loli I doubt anyone reading itou hachi continuously can be without our common perversion. Confess, man, we're between men of hum, "culture"...
And nothing is a crime in your head. [VPN mode=off]
Confess huh. Well here it goes. I find stories like this disturbing. However I'm intrigued by the fact that a woman wrote it. It may be sexist, but I don't really think of women having these kinds of proclivities . And I find that Itou Hachi apparently does... interesting. well as long she isn't practicing what she preachers
However I'm intrigued by the fact that a woman wrote it.
Some huge percent of lolicon authors are women, even among the more violent ones: Harasaki and Bakaudon Shiruka are both women.
I've watched a ton of horror movies and splatter films, and according to the logic I'm reading in this thread that means I'm either a potential ax murder or fantasize regularly about massacring the people in my neighborhood.
That depends. When you watch those movies, are you watching because you like a good scare? Are you geeking out of the grossness of the special effects? Or are you thinking "those bitches got what's coming to them"? Edit: because if it's the last one you might be a potential ax murderer.
I think I made it clear that I didn't think just because someone likes this doen't nessessrily make them a pedophile.
last edited at Feb 5, 2020 11:14PM
A blank page?
It shows fetus brothers yaoi fuckin each other. Hilarious nonsensical porn.
last edited at Feb 6, 2020 2:45AM
That depends. When you watch those movies, are you watching because you like a good scare? Are you geeking out of the grossness of the special effects? Or are you thinking "those bitches got what's coming to them"? Edit: because if it's the last one you might be a potential ax murderer.
Yes, people only watch slasher movies because they like a good scare. The fact that when it comes to girls, those who aren't "muh purity" types have their deaths be especially graphic is a total coincidence, of course. All our good upstanding citizens wouldn't dream of wishing harm upon young girls. Of course.
In any case, I know where I stand when I read and enjoy things like this. And that (almost) anything is okay when it involves two cute girls loving each other. Almost, unless it involves of other cute girls dying.
Which this doesn't, so it's 100% ok. Better it be yuri with a cute female lolicon than a normal straight relationship.
last edited at Feb 6, 2020 4:49AM
When I made that statement, I wasn’t talking about the people saying they like this sort of lolicon stuff.
Right—that’s why I explicitly said in the clearest terms I possibly could that I was making a different point than you were.
Totally cool. I saw folks running with your discussion point and just wanted to clarify my stance in case there was some misunderstanding on what I was trying to say. Folks enjoy loli? As long as no real life kids are involved, cool, y’all do y’all. But like any of the more extreme niches of interest, you can’t expect or really even insist that it be accepted by the mainstream, so folks shouldn’t be surprised or outraged when it’s not published in a volume that’ll be available in a mainstream bookstore.
I mean, hell, can you imagine the fallout if some stereotypical soccer mom catches her precious baby looking at something like this in a bookstore? Those sorts of idiots go on ragefests over Starbucks having a holiday cup that might depict two women doing something as outrageously lewd as holding hands. Or convince store managers that hemp milk leads to smoking marijuana to get the product taken off the shelves. I don’t even want to imagine what they’d do if they got a sniff of something like Itou Hachi.
Last parenthesis: Johnb you should talk to more people out of your comfort zone. Any psychoanalysist will tell you that female "pedo" are more numerous than male ones, but it's seen as "maternal love" and overlooked.
Yes we do love slasher because evil b|tçh$ being slaughtered. We do not "not mind" fictional murders, we love it.
Minalinsky, male or female I love you .-) . You're a person I would like to hang around with IRL, probably. A highly "cultured" person.
last edited at Feb 6, 2020 2:36PM
Btw, if some knows about a manga like this one, potentially from the same reader, that "goes all the way" in a stylish way, I would like to know. I found 1 for now, which was interesting, though I hate animal hears, and would prefer a story.
I don't care being disturbed, except by toys.
Why is it that every time there is a lolicon manga posted here, so much bullshit is written?
I don't mind loli/shota and some of my favourite manga is from the genre, but I think the way it's presented here is a little more unsettling than the norm.
Usually it's made less predatory by the kid being particularly mature and often being the first one to confess, and the adult often feels a sort of moral dilemma even if she's super into the kid. The sexual elements are also often kept to a minimum until the kid is a little older.
Here, it's kind of reversed, with the adult being the pursuer and having no qualms about it, even casually insisting on doing erotic stuff like french-kissing the kid.
I still don't really have a problem with it myself (I just don't particularly enjoy it) but I do think it stands out even within the loli genre.
Yes, people only watch slasher movies because they like a good scare. The fact that when it comes to girls, those who aren't "muh purity" types have their deaths be especially graphic is a total coincidence, of course. All our good upstanding citizens wouldn't dream of wishing harm upon young girls. Of course.
I can count the number of slasher movies I've enjoyed on one hand and still have a middle finger left over for anyone who accuses me of internalized misogyny. There's a lot more to splatter films than '80s American drive-in schlock, e.g. splatstick like Dead Sushi (2012).