And yet again, the transwoman is "perfect". If she didn't say she was a guy before, none would have guessed.

IMO, this way of portraying transwomen by mangaka is as bad as portraying them as ridiculous muscled unshaved drag-queens haunting bars in Roppongi. It's a lie.

And yet again, the transwoman is "perfect". If she didn't say she was a guy before, none would have guessed.

IMO, this way of portraying transwomen by mangaka is as bad as portraying them as ridiculous muscled unshaved drag-queens haunting bars in Roppongi. It's a lie.

I personally get the impression that her proportions are deliberately (if a bit inconsistently) drawn to look different from cis women. To me she looks she looks completely credible as a 28 year old girl who transitioned in her early twenties, just seen through manga vision.

Is that manga vision what's bothering you? I'm fine with it myself. Stylizing and idealizing the appearance of ordinary people is just what manga does. If anything, I feel like the author here did a solid job of espousing that manga aesthetic without pretending that cis and trans women look identical.

last edited at Nov 14, 2019 7:04AM

And yet again, the transwoman is "perfect". If she didn't say she was a guy before, none would have guessed.

IMO, this way of portraying transwomen by mangaka is as bad as portraying them as ridiculous muscled unshaved drag-queens haunting bars in Roppongi. It's a lie.

I personally get the impression that her proportions are deliberately drawn a bit differently from cis women. To me she looks she looks completely credible as a 28 year old girl who transitioned in her early twenties, just seen through manga vision.

Is that manga vision what's bothering you? I'm fine with it myself. Stylizing and idealizing the appearance of ordinary people is just what manga does. If anything, I feel like the author here did a great job of espousing that manga aesthetic without pretending that cis and trans women look identical.

Yeah there isn't really a ton of nuance in manga character design a lot of the time and most of the tells that someone who passes pretty well is trans are in the details. I'm not sure what the artist could have done without verging on caricature.

That was good. They're cute.

ceiimq posted:

I personally get the impression that her proportions are deliberately (if a bit inconsistently) drawn to look different from cis women. To me she looks she looks completely credible as a 28 year old girl who transitioned in her early twenties, just seen through manga vision.

Yea. If you start hormone therapy before 20s you can get pretty good results and as we see in flashback, Makoto looked pretty effeminate to begin with. Also yea, whatever intentional or not, you can see her shoulders are broader and neck is a bit thicker for example. Reality is as there is many people who wouldn't pass well, there's just as many who would and all those in between. Getting fixated on whatever they pass too well or not is just missing the point.

I like the way it does what it says on the box.

I love them. It's a little sad we're unlikely to ever see what becomes of them in the future, though.

If she didn't say she was a guy before, none would have guessed.

I would do no such thing.

And yet again, the transwoman is "perfect". If she didn't say she was a guy before, none would have guessed.

IMO, this way of portraying transwomen by mangaka is as bad as portraying them as ridiculous muscled unshaved drag-queens haunting bars in Roppongi. It's a lie.

Yeah, well passing trans woman are fictional, like unicorns.

last edited at Nov 14, 2019 11:18AM

Yet this isn't Yuri. That person isn't a female, it's a male. Really disgusting to see this content here. Very disgusting.

last edited at Nov 14, 2019 12:29PM

If she didn't say she was a guy before, none would have guessed.

I would do no such thing.

These comments continue to make my life, thank you.

Yet this isn't Yuri. That person isn't a female, it's a male. Really disgusting to see this content here. Very disgusting.

Sorry, these comments don't make my life. I'm afraid I'll have to ban you. Take care.

last edited at Nov 26, 2019 7:15PM

Yet this isn't Yuri. That person isn't a female, it's a male. Really disgusting to see this content here. Very disgusting.

Sorry, these comments don't make my life. I'm afraid I'll have to ban you. Take care.

Its wierd to see these comments when there are actual Het stories in this site

Yet this isn't Yuri. That person isn't a female, it's a male. Really disgusting to see this content here. Very disgusting.

Sorry, these comments don't make my life. I'm afraid I'll have to ban you. Take care.

Its wierd to see these comments when there are actual Het stories in this site

That's because TERFs don't actually care about "men invading female spaces", it is entirely about policing women.

wholesome

What is wrong with transwomen who pass really good? they do exist you know? Other than that, it was a nice, cute little story. :)

Whether or not she passes well... it's a manga. Lol. Remember in Lily Love how Donut talks about how fat she is when she looks skinny as a rail? Ease up, Buttercup. Manga gonna make people look good.

Whether or not she passes well... it's a manga. Lol. Remember in Lily Love how Donut talks about how fat she is when she looks skinny as a rail? Ease up, Buttercup. Manga gonna make people look good.

This x 555

Yet this isn't Yuri. That person isn't a female, it's a male. Really disgusting to see this content here. Very disgusting.

Sorry, these comments don't make my life. I'm afraid I'll have to ban you. Take care.

Its wierd to see these comments when there are actual Het stories in this site

That's because TERFs don't actually care about "men invading female spaces", it is entirely about policing women.

Ah, yes, TERFs... or as I like to call them: femitraitors.

In any case, I want to see more of this story.

Sorry, these comments don't make my life. I'm afraid I'll have to ban you. Take care.

I don't understand how someone could have a fairly old account and behave so poorly. It seems like large amounts of time spent in one place would mellow someone out, give them the opportunity to grow as a person, learn to moderate themselves. It's true, of course, that the internet brings out the worst in people, I can attest to that from personal experience. But I'm certain I'm not nearly as bad as I was 5 years ago, or 10 years, or 15.
...I hope.

edit: oh my god is my account really 4+ years old? I hope I don't end up a curmudgeonly old fart within the next 40 or so years. It'd be best if that only happened when I'm too old to use whatever fancy technology we'll be using to communicate. That way I can spare the world my inevitable "kids these days" rants

last edited at Nov 14, 2019 7:35PM

And yet again, the transwoman is "perfect". If she didn't say she was a guy before, none would have guessed.

IMO, this way of portraying transwomen by mangaka is as bad as portraying them as ridiculous muscled unshaved drag-queens haunting bars in Roppongi. It's a lie.

how is it bad to portray women as women? even if their trans, it's pretty easy to "pass" look at any trans woman and you most likely be hard-pressed to tell if you your not told beforehand

And yet again, the transwoman is "perfect". If she didn't say she was a guy before, none would have guessed.

IMO, this way of portraying transwomen by mangaka is as bad as portraying them as ridiculous muscled unshaved drag-queens haunting bars in Roppongi. It's a lie.

how is it bad to portray women as women? even if their trans, it's pretty easy to "pass" look at any trans woman and you most likely be hard-pressed to tell if you your not told beforehand

It's about as disingenuous to say all trans women "pass" as it is to say none of them do. Like most things in life it's rarely black and white. In my own experiences I would say I've seen more that haven't passed than have but there is absolutely nothing wrong with a mangaka presenting their characters either way so long as they aren't being intentionally offensive aka drawing there characters as unflattering caricatures.

I was originally going to add my two cents about a different common trope in trans manga that I find completely immersion breaking and contrary to real life experience, but on second thought it could lead to some big thread derailing argument which could hurt people's feelings so it's best to just leave it unsaid.

And yet again, the transwoman is "perfect". If she didn't say she was a guy before, none would have guessed.

IMO, this way of portraying transwomen by mangaka is as bad as portraying them as ridiculous muscled unshaved drag-queens haunting bars in Roppongi. It's a lie.

I mean, can we be real here? Is there even a way to portray a transwoman as not passing without drawing her intentionally as overly masculine and unshaved in Manga Style? Like, even if she is drawn with average masculine proportions in this kind of artstyle, she would still look have a mature feminine beauty, considering that your average mangastyle man has a highly androgynous look and could be easily genderswapped by just adding longer hair. Hell, even in Kanojo ni Naritai Kimi to Boku Akira, who is deliberately drawn as not being able to pass easily, could just as well have been a tall tomboyish ciswoman when it comes to manga art-conventions.

The idea that transwomen somehow can’t be “perfect” passing in manga is dumb. Literally nobody could clock me as trans at this point in my transition and that’s not a rare occurrence. Not to mention this woman has literally been out since high school, the biggest years of her transition are probably over and all that’s left is maybe gaining some cup sizes.

And yet again, the transwoman is "perfect". If she didn't say she was a guy before, none would have guessed.

IMO, this way of portraying transwomen by mangaka is as bad as portraying them as ridiculous muscled unshaved drag-queens haunting bars in Roppongi. It's a lie.

I mean, can we be real here? Is there even a way to portray a transwoman as not passing without drawing her intentionally as overly masculine and unshaved in Manga Style? Like, even if she is drawn with average masculine proportions in this kind of artstyle, she would still look have a mature feminine beauty, considering that your average mangastyle man has a highly androgynous look and could be easily genderswapped by just adding longer hair. Hell, even in Kanojo ni Naritai Kimi to Boku Akira, who is deliberately drawn as not being able to pass easily, could just as well have been a tall tomboyish ciswoman when it comes to manga art-conventions.

Good point. It's actually pretty rare to find a mangaka with a detailed enough style to really pull this off convincingly.

And yet again, the transwoman is "perfect". If she didn't say she was a guy before, none would have guessed.

IMO, this way of portraying transwomen by mangaka is as bad as portraying them as ridiculous muscled unshaved drag-queens haunting bars in Roppongi. It's a lie.

how is it bad to portray women as women? even if their trans, it's pretty easy to "pass" look at any trans woman and you most likely be hard-pressed to tell if you your not told beforehand

It's about as disingenuous to say all trans women "pass" as it is to say none of them do. Like most things in life it's rarely black and white. In my own experiences I would say I've seen more that haven't passed than have but there is absolutely nothing wrong with a mangaka presenting their characters either way so long as they aren't being intentionally offensive aka drawing there characters as unflattering caricatures.

I was originally going to add my two cents about a different common trope in trans manga that I find completely immersion breaking and contrary to real life experience, but on second thought it could lead to some big thread derailing argument which could hurt people's feelings so it's best to just leave it unsaid.

Of course you’ve seen more who haven’t passed then did pass, you wouldn’t notice the ones who did. That is the definition of passing

Oh man. This is the Dynasty that I know and love. Going from "It's cute" to "whether or not can transwomen actually pass irl?" My answer for both is yes.