Apologies for the tardiness of my reply. Been on my first holiday in 3 years. Was quite wonderful ^_^
Anyway, onto the matter at hand
To Nya-chan first. I whole-heartedly agree with you. It’s great that people have the ability to choose. That you can live as a human being without being pidgeonholded or lashed down to one particular way of expressing yourself.
However.
My response never one questioned that. My response was quite clearly directed at another line you wrote.
It takes time and money only if you want to conform to what other people think is a woman.
I laid down specific examples of why someone would take time and money to express themselves for reasons other than “if you only want to conform to what other people think is a woman.” I was fairly clear in my expression and reasoning. I used numerous and varied examples to refute your gross generalisation.
Nya-can, you responded to a question I never asked. This does leave me a little confused.
And to Majere.
You’re falling into the Nirvana Logical Fallacy and the Straw Man Logical Fallacy. I’ll tackle the Straw Man first, since it’s the easiest.
And even if that isn't the case just because you like this oppressive societal more that demands women invest inordinate amounts of time and money into this endeavour doesn't make it not an oppressive societal more that is ultimately harmful to women.
You are attempting to paint me as perfectly accustomed to the idea that I like oppression and am apathetic to everyone’s plight. You are attempting to paint me into a corner so you can critique me and appear the superior. You don’t actually tackle anything of what I’m stating, In fact you, much like Nya-chan, ignore what I wrote. In that people go through these actions, they use make-up or clothing, for a variety of reasons. Reasons outside of the idea that people are pressured only by an oppressive industry and society. Fortunately you later posted this line.
I suppose you can pretend complex sociological issues are simple if you ignore all of the complexities of them. It's intellectually lazy in the extreme but whatever floats your boat I guess.
I appreciate that you realised your error and corrected yourself. Also you fell into the Straw Man Fallacy there too.
Secondly, to the Nirvana Logical Fallacy. There isn’t such thing as an absolutely perfect answer or solution. There are pressures from all angles. The make-up industry applies pressure upon people. The car industry applies pressure upon people. The food preparation industry applies pressure upon people. The manga industry applies pressure upon people. Everyone is under constant influence by everything and everyone. To declare the make-up industry as simply evil and should be discarded because there isn’t a perfect outcome seems irrational.
Looping back to the Straw Man, you are dealing in absolutes. The idea that make-up is “ultimately harmful to women.” This absolute falls apart the moment someone examines it more closely. I am an example. I’m not “ultimately harmed.” Which means your absolute has already fallen apart. My friends and family listed are other examples. However whilst we are not harmed, there are most certainly others who are harmed.
Are there issues with this and every single other industry on this planet? Absolutely! And it is in that knowledge that we must seek to bring about change. It won’t happen overnight. Chances are some of these outcomes are long-term to the point where decades may pass before meaningful and constructive change occurs in any facet of our lives. But strive we can.
I prefer to be an optimist. But that is my choice and of course it is up to you to decide where your eyes and mind guide you. Now if you'll excuse me, I've several weeks worth of manga to catch up on ^_^ .
