I'm actually starting to hate the person who asked that on twitter, is there a way to respond that without spoiling the ending? No, you say Yuri then they end up as a couple, you say friendship then is just a good bye ... I mean come on, whoever asked that is like those people here who complain about the Yuri tag because the don't kiss in the first chapter.

Maybe the author shouldn't have responded at all instead of just outright saying she doesn't intend to make it yuri. The person asking did us a service, we use tags for a reason and this is a prime example. It sets expectations, and now my expectations for this series have been toppled. I'm mad for wasting my time so far but glad that I won't waste any more knowing that there will be no strawberry inside this cake.

Gridman posted:

I'm actually starting to hate the person who asked that on twitter, is there a way to respond that without spoiling the ending? No, you say Yuri then they end up as a couple, you say friendship then is just a good bye ... I mean come on, whoever asked that is like those people here who complain about the Yuri tag because the don't kiss in the first chapter.

Maybe the author shouldn't have responded at all instead of just outright saying she doesn't intend to make it yuri. The person asking did us a service, we use tags for a reason and this is a prime example. It sets expectations, and now my expectations for this series have been toppled. I'm mad for wasting my time so far but glad that I won't waste any more knowing that there will be no strawberry inside this cake.

Or you could read it because it's a good story about friendship. Regardless of it going yuri route in the end or not.

Or you could read it because it's a good story about friendship. Regardless of it going yuri route in the end or not.

Or I can read a story about yuri and not waste my time on pointless teen friendships. And this is why we have tags.

I'm not sure the author's Twitter response actually tells us anything we didn't know already about the story, and I'm really not sure it tells us anything solid about how the story is going to finally end up.

And I'm really, really, really not sure what she means about her "worldview being accepted."

She did have a chance to satisfy those who want a guaranteed yuri-couple ending, and she definitely passed. But why she passed and what the implications of that are still remains to be seen.

I'm actually starting to hate the person who asked that on twitter, is there a way to respond that without spoiling the ending? No, you say Yuri then they end up as a couple, you say friendship then is just a good bye ... I mean come on, whoever asked that is like those people here who complain about the Yuri tag because the don't kiss in the first chapter.

The intent of the questioner was not about asking whether there would be romance. The full context isn't really worth explaining, but the questioner was someone who supports yuri not just being romance.

Gridman posted:

Or you could read it because it's a good story about friendship. Regardless of it going yuri route in the end or not.

Or I can read a story about yuri and not waste my time on pointless teen friendships. And this is why we have tags.

Funny you say that, since this series never had a yuri tag. So how come you kept reading it blindly despite it not being yuri, before that author's comment?

Doctor_Hoot posted:

Or you could read it because it's a good story about friendship.

But implying that Nettaigyo is just a story about friendship, one that doesn't ship tease the ever-living shit out of the two leads, is wildly dishonest.

Or I just never read it and just check comments from time to time and based on what people say, despite it's potential so far it didn't cross that line, but is still a very well written story about friendship, if it never decides to go beyond that. I do plan to read it, mostly because of all positive comments (and it caught my interest way before), but it's not like I only read yuri exclusively. So I'm fine reading this one even if nothing comes out of it, because reading story about really good portray of friendship between girls is nice change of pace too. On that note I recommend Tomodachi no Hanashi for anyone who wants to read about very close and intimate friendship between 2 girls.

last edited at May 3, 2019 5:28PM

There's definitely some teasing here and there although I wouldn't say it's ever crossed into dishonesty. It would be dishonest if it was baiting and it ended with Konatsu and/or Koyuki finding a boyfriend, but that's 100% not going to happen. It's the kind of teasing that makes for subtext (a tag the series does have on here, rightfully so) and I guess it will end as subtext in a 'the nature and future developments of their relationship are left to the reader's interpretation' kind of way. I do understand if some people decide not to read it or to drop it if they can't get actual romance, but saying it's about friendship first and foremost isn't dishonest in my opinion.

i do find it kind of dishonest i don´t get why some authors portrait friendship like that there´s tons of ways to show that two characters are close friends you only need to look at any sports manga .
The fandom ship characters? of course they do that´s just the nature of the fandoms .
The fandom go ape shit when their favorite ship doesn´t become canon?of course not because the nature of their relationship is clear from the begining , they can be rivals, best buddies, teacher and student, senpai and kouhai, platonic fiends etc but at the end is clear that no they´re not gay

it´s the same with stuff like k-on love live or any show with cute girls doing cute thing. i don´t see ppl complaining about yui x azu not being canon or maki x nico

there´s really no good reason to mislead the readers/viewers into believe a character might be gay just to pull of the "haaa gotcha they´re just really close friends " to me that is kind of dishones
and is worst when you were interested in something (manga/anime) even if it wasn´t yuri but then you got tricked you into thinkinh that it might be a legit yuri and at the end you fell betrayed

last edited at May 4, 2019 3:07AM

^Fan service, moe and ship tease. And it's only people's fault to call something yuri when publisher and author said otherwise.

The overt level of the text tells us in no uncertain terms that Koyuki and Konatsu have an emotional relationship that goes beyond everyday friendship in significance and intensity. There’s no tease or dishonesty about that much, at any rate.

Both characters, but Koyuki especially, are struggling to understand what that “beyond” is and means, and particularly what the future will hold when they’re not together in school and in the club anymore. This is by no means a story that has indicated that its logical conclusion is the MCs making out or in bed together (although nothing in the story completely rules it out, either).

To me the logical conclusion of the story does require that the two characters eventually communicate honestly about how much they mean to each other. Whether that takes a specifically romantic/sexualized form remains to be seen.

She did have a chance to satisfy those who want a guaranteed yuri-couple ending, and she definitely passed. But why she passed and what the implications of that are still remains to be seen.

She passed that right at the start. This was advertised as "girls friendship" from the get-go, but it seems no one bothered to check the scanlator's webpage, where this was clearly stated for over a year now. Back when people genuinely complained about the subtext tag and demanded the yuri tag added (and even sent tag requests to that end, repeatedly), this fact was brought up, but it seems no one payed it the slightest attention, and is now yet again becoming an issue, due to that tweet.

While the romantic interpretation of their relationship requires very little (or basically nothing) in the way of mental gymnastics, I very much doubt the ending will go beyond what was already established here. Basically, a really, really close and emotionally deep friendship that can be viewed as romantic with minimal effort from the audience (but which never outright states as much).

While the romantic interpretation of their relationship requires very little (or basically nothing) in the way of mental gymnastics,

The turtle has had it pegged from the get-go.

Eventually the shark as well.

I'm not sure that analogy makes 100% sense. If we were to pinpoint the main narrative focus of Nettaigyo, it would be "the relationship between two girls who bond over their shared loneliness and gradually open up to each other by overcoming the hardships of communication", which is pretty much the same thing as the Salamander short story the whole idea for the manga comes from. Something like the relationship possibly being romantic is rather incidental to that and despite there having been tons of scenes that can be interpreted romantically, there hasn't been a single time so far where any character explicitly said or thought anything about the possibility of being in love, which is the line that would need to be crossed for the subtext to become main text (the 'passing through objects' that would definitely be a supernatural element). I still understand if someone is upset that the series will apparently never go that direction since it could be considered a waste of potential and of things that were set up, but I feel it has more to do with personal expectations than with the author writing a certain way and wanting a different meaning to come through. My personal take on it has always been that from the way it was written, the series could eventually go either the route of explicit romance or to leave things implicit and that as long as it was written well, I'd be fine with either.

I'm not sure that analogy makes 100% sense. If we were to pinpoint the main narrative focus of Nettaigyo, it would be "the relationship between two girls who bond over their shared loneliness and gradually open up to each other by overcoming the hardships of communication", which is pretty much the same thing as the Salamander short story the whole idea for the manga comes from. Something like the relationship possibly being romantic is rather incidental to that and despite there having been tons of scenes that can be interpreted romantically, there hasn't been a single time so far where any character explicitly said or thought anything about the possibility of being in love, which is the line that would need to be crossed for the subtext to become main text (the 'passing through objects' that would definitely be a supernatural element). I still understand if someone is upset that the series will apparently never go that direction since it could be considered a waste of potential and of things that were set up, but I feel it has more to do with personal expectations than with the author writing a certain way and wanting a different meaning to come through. My personal take on it has always been that from the way it was written, the series could eventually go either the route of explicit romance or to leave things implicit and that as long as it was written well, I'd be fine with either.

Just wanted to say that I think this was a solid take that’s worth leaving up (IMO) even when the crossed-wires posts that it’s responding to are taken down.

Thanks. Honestly I don't think you guys' posts necessarily had to be removed since it was still a very civil discussion with some very light banter that got quickly recognized as such, but you do you.

Thanks. Honestly I don't think you guys' posts necessarily had to be removed since it was still a very civil discussion with some very light banter that got quickly recognized as such, but you do you.

Well, we were talking past each other with more of an edge than was necessary; I'd rather save that for when there's a real issue. :)

It's remarkable that such a sweet-hearted series generates as much tension among readers as it does.

Maybe that's because the characters, especially Koyuki, are realistically teenaged, i.e.; really smart and really blockheaded simultaneously--sometimes you want to just reach into the story and knock their heads together and say, "Look, you f*cking LIKE each other--now decide if you're going to kiss or not!"

Since that's not possible, readers focus their frustrations on the author first, and then each other. lol

So, before I start reading it, is it still subtext after all these chapters, or did it move forward?

Yes, is subtext and still not lizard

last edited at May 16, 2019 3:09PM

Aight, that's a skip for me then, at least for now.

This isn't really related, but the author uploaded a vlog and she added English subtitles herself so that foreign fans could follow along, so I thought I would share: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY918zKK_P8

Whenever I see a series like this where the author is like "No, see, they're just friends!" it makes me wonder...Like, did she have a friendship like this, and not realize that they were totally crushing on each other?

^ When an author pulls that shit, I usually get very suspicious from that point onwards. But I suppose this case is different because they didn't really deny any possible romantic development in the future and I think we can attest to the fact that this is a story about a friendship between girls (with mild yuri subtext).

Not to mention that they have done a bunch of yuri in the past (like, almost exclusively), so I think they can be trusted... unlike others.

last edited at May 29, 2019 9:11AM

When does the next chapter come out? You're killing me here, mangakasan. First you come out and say the obvious Yuri story isn't a Yuri because 'your rights', then there's a giant months long cliffhanger. Then you post a blog of you eating tasty food and going to a park?

Get back to work! >:(

June 27th, as you can see on the last page of the latest chapter. Hang in there.

June 27th, as you can see on the last page of the latest chapter. Hang in there.

Can't wait. :)