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Heart_of_gold%20avatar%20smol
joined Mar 21, 2019

Have they kissed? I mean, at any moment in all the manga

Sakurako drunkenly kisses Kasumi in chapter 27 and Kasumi kisses Sakurako in Chapter 53.

There might be more but those are the two I remember off the top of my head.

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

Have they kissed? I mean, at any moment in all the manga

Read through this forum--there are several exhaustive lists of all the kisses and more-than-just-gal-pals moments to counter the yuri purists.

Who ignore them all or hand-wave them away.

New%20dynasty%20reader%20profile
joined Oct 22, 2018

If I had the drive I used to have 2 or 3 years ago, I might've gone to re-read the entire series + entire thread all over again.

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

If I had the drive I used to have 2 or 3 years ago, I might've gone to re-read the entire series + entire thread all over again.

This has been another chapter in A Portrait of the Yuri Reader in His Declining Years.

joined Feb 1, 2021

If I had the drive I used to have 2 or 3 years ago, I might've gone to re-read the entire series + entire thread all over again.

I can see wanting to re-read this manga. But the thread? Goodness, you must be a glutton for punishment.

New%20dynasty%20reader%20profile
joined Oct 22, 2018

If I had the drive I used to have 2 or 3 years ago, I might've gone to re-read the entire series + entire thread all over again.

This has been another chapter in A Portrait of the Yuri Reader in His Declining Years.

Well I must be declining very early, given that I'm still over a month away from turning 20.

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

If I had the drive I used to have 2 or 3 years ago, I might've gone to re-read the entire series + entire thread all over again.

This has been another chapter in A Portrait of the Yuri Reader in His Declining Years.

Well I must be declining very early, given that I'm still over a month away from turning 20.

As I said . . .

joined Jul 26, 2016

Well I must be declining very early, given that I'm still over a month away from turning 20.

Oh it'll only get worse after college. Ain't growing oldup grand? :S

46-75
joined Jun 25, 2019

Have they kissed? I mean, at any moment in all the manga

Sakurako drunkenly kisses Kasumi in chapter 27 and Kasumi kisses Sakurako in Chapter 53.

There might be more but those are the two I remember off the top of my head.

And one is coming up in the next chapters

New%20dynasty%20reader%20profile
joined Oct 22, 2018

If I had the drive I used to have 2 or 3 years ago, I might've gone to re-read the entire series + entire thread all over again.

This has been another chapter in A Portrait of the Yuri Reader in His Declining Years.

Well I must be declining very early, given that I'm still over a month away from turning 20.

As I said . . .

I never disputed it, just stated some extra info

joined Feb 18, 2015

Here I was going to point out that the way Kasumi pushes Sakurako over in the surf and gets right up in her face to verify her "realness" after she comments that she sometimes feels Kasumi is too pretty to be real, then makes her acknowledge her "realness: is another one of the fine, yet subtle indications that their feelings are NOT one-sided, but mutual, but it looks like there's a bunch of the usual crowd already yapping about whether this is really yuri, yada yada yada... sigh...

New%20dynasty%20reader%20profile
joined Oct 22, 2018

It may be me not reading attentively enough, but I'm yet to actually see the yapping crowd comment on this chapter. I see us commenting what we assume they'd comment, but that's pretty much it.

D05536d6-01d1-4527-9102-4cc772fad5ed
joined Jul 6, 2020

It's honestly really funny to me that they had a whole thing of being impressed by a whole foods supermarket but I bet japanese people have a similar reaction to all the videos out there doing tours of japanese 7/11s. Everythng we're used to is new to someone else

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

It may be me not reading attentively enough, but I'm yet to actually see the yapping crowd comment on this chapter. I see us commenting what we assume they'd comment, but that's pretty much it.

Absolutely right, BV. Maybe this time we won’t be graced with the previously inevitable Gridman omake chapter supplement.

Hololive%2032
joined May 1, 2018

Kasumi based for eating poke, those bowls are goddamn incredible

Image
joined Aug 21, 2021

i thouht thsis was licensedd

Tron-legacy
joined Dec 11, 2017

It may be me not reading attentively enough, but I'm yet to actually see the yapping crowd comment on this chapter. I see us commenting what we assume they'd comment, but that's pretty much it.

Absolutely right, BV. Maybe this time we won’t be graced with the previously inevitable Gridman omake chapter supplement.

Just don't say it three times.

Img_20200401_132631
joined Jun 17, 2018

Have they kissed? I mean, at any moment in all the manga

Sakurako drunkenly kisses Kasumi in chapter 27 and Kasumi kisses Sakurako in Chapter 53.

There might be more but those are the two I remember off the top of my head.

And one is coming up in the next chapters

How do you know?

OrangePekoe Staff
Screenshot_1244
joined Mar 20, 2013

So happy to have this back, Yukiko really is healing.

Licentious Lantern
Lantern%202
joined Sep 17, 2021

I am surprised to find this updated. I remember reading it quite regularly years ago, but I found myself so distracted with life... Unfortunately my last memory of it was also of a slightly disappointed nature so that may have contributed to my break from Yukiko's beautiful art and comfortable writing. It must have been the chapter where Sakurako denied that her and Kasumi are dating. Albeit a silly matter of labels, it quite hurt me, as the text and imagery of the manga so clearly do their best to prove the contrary.

I'm glad to say I have overcome this emotional down and can fully enjoy their bond again. Both Sakurako and Kasumi have always been struggling with labels, yet never with their relationship itself and it reflects in how they have in fact grown closer without acknowleding it directly. The chapter where Sakurako spoke of how they understand each other's inner workings better than any outsider could which leads to different perceptions was more or less a direct address to the reader in my humble opinion. Indeed, the outward level of affection we see is not always fully representative of the inner love they share. This goes in both directions of course, from Kasumi being more affectionate than her seemingly indifferent nature would suggest, to Sakurako clearly using her overtly intense and nearly farcical level of adoration to play over her more tender and serious love for Kasumi.

I still remember the Hawaii trip being brought up in the context of a honeymoon and although we skipped the marriage, it is finally here. The suggestion of an eventual return still allows for the honeymoon promise to be fulfilled as well. Lovely.

As this will be the last event before their life as working adults, the next stage of their shared happiness, I found it quite fitting that they reaffirmed their connection once more. Sakurako has been wildly clinging to memories and shared items that connect them lately, as if she was trying to anchor herself to Kasumi, but in this chapter she completely forgot about any matters other than enjoying the view with Kasumi. Her desire to preserve the past was overwritten by the happiness of their present. Kasumi made certain to pull (or rather push) Sakurako back to reality and show her that their connection is real, that she is there for her and that she is not merely a dream that Sakurako is unworthy of watching, that will eventually only become a memory. Kasumi has the desire to be with Sakurako, the only true desire she ever held and she has to show it to her.

Their eternal status quo makes it impossible to tell what is past or present sometimes, even for them. With the subtle changes they have gone through, though, I have no doubt that they will continue to grow more complete and more romantic. Perhaps they may never find the courage or need to label what they have, but come the next stage of their life, they will strengthen their bond - their love - yet again.

last edited at Oct 13, 2021 12:05PM

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

I am surprised to find this updated. I remember reading it quite regularly years ago, but I found myself so distracted with life... Unfortunately my last memory of it was also of a slightly disappointed nature so that may have contributed to my break from Yukiko's beautiful art and comfortable writing. It must have been the chapter where Sakurako denied that her and Kasumi are dating. Albeit a silly matter of labels, it quite hurt me, as the text and imagery of the manga so clearly do their best to prove the contrary.

I think Chapter 53 (referenced above--where Kasumi kisses Saku at the door) is the definitive chapter in regard to their overall relationship as well as the issue of labels. Saku, who used to have lots of friends, can now hardly remember her life before Kasumi, while Kasumi, who used to get annoyed when people would call out to her (or at least she couldn't be bothered with them), likes that particular thing about Sakurako the best. Kasumi, who doesn't do anything she doesn't want to do if she can possibly help it says, "I'm okay with doing whatever Sakurako wants."

As to the labels, they agree that they are "best friends," insofar as each understands the term, they are comfortable with each other in a way they are not with anyone else, and they plan to live their lives together forever. The story makes it clear that any further labelling is about what other people want to know about them, not how they feel about each other.

Personally, I'm pretty sure that Yukiko-sensei has the artistic chops to show physical intimacy between the two (beyond the normal semi-nude post-bath cuddling that we've already seen, I mean) that would be both sexy and hilarious simultaneously. As a yuri reader, I would love to see that.

But as a reader of this series my own impulse strikes me as being in, at best, poor taste, as if I were an immigration official demanding to watch a couple perform coitus in front of me in order to prove that they're a "real" couple and not faking it just to get an "official yuri" green card.

Licentious Lantern
Lantern%202
joined Sep 17, 2021

@Blastaar
I have trouble expressing my thoughts sometimes, so this may turn into more of a stream of consciousness, don't feel obligated to read it. I really wish these forums had collapsible spoilers to reduce the space at least...

First of all I want to say that I have never once doubted that Sakurako and Kasumi love each other romantically. This is an undeniable fact in my mind. They are a couple, for whatever labels they may use, their actions speak louder than words. Due to this perspective I do not ever require any more proof . I will even go so far as to say that I have no desire to see them have sex, although I would love for the sexual component to be acknowledged eventually. That is essential to me, not as proof of their love, but as a necessary evolution of their dynamic. What I mean by that is even more longwinded so I'll save that for another time, but safe to say I am absolutely certain that they actually never had sex yet and that they can't until they reach that evolution I mentioned.

All that is to say, I may not have been quite clear about why that line from Sakurako back then hurt me so much. It is not that I blame the characters for having a different perspective (however influenced by their own misconceptions or quirks) on what a relationship is. It's that I felt Yukiko's theming to be... suffocating.
There are several couples in this manga and for a long time I simply thought they were to provide a contrast for Sakurako and Kasumi's more unique relationship.... but as time goes on I suspect there is more to it.

You see, every lesbian relationship in this manga struggles with labels. Not just that of the main pair. Of course the most obvious one would be Moka and Koruri, because Moka quite directly said she also prefers not to use words like "boyfriend or girlfriend". Even though it was quite heavily implied that she frequented a lesbian bar for years, that she seeks out people, there is also the aspect that she has a strong aversion to be bound and tied down. Her relationships according to the barkeeper are usually of a fleeting and faraway nature (not that her sleeping around was a secret) and Koruri's existence and their solid relationship is a rare exception. Moka doesn't have a home that she actually treats as a home, until she met Koruri and made her that place. The reason she was averse to labels was clearly that she is not fond of the obligations and expectations it brings with it. It binds her and requires a tribute so to speak.
What is noteworthy is that despite this aspect of her, she has no issue still addressing Koruri as her girlfriend, call themselves a couple and express her love. She is free spirited, but not unaware of the reality around her. She even said that there are things you can only do as a couple, when Koruri wasn't sure about that. In the end Koruri even kinda proved Moka right, because the reason she chose to date her was to bind her in a way that she couldn't if they just stayed friends.

Next is a way more subtle pair that I first overlooked in this area. Seri and Shouko. What finally tipped me off was the Valentine's chapter. When Sakurako asked why Seri did not ask her friends at college for help, her explanation was that everyone there thinks she has a boyfriend and that she "cant explain it well" which is why she prefers to avoid telling them. Seri struggles with labels just as much as the rest, only does her struggle come from her upbringing and sheltered nature. Shouko is a true "commoner" in so far that she has adapted to everything in life, but cannot really venture past that easily. She loves Seri, she values their relationship, but she can't quite find the focus that a romantic relationship seems to require in her mind, which is why she constantly is afraid of failing Seri. If Seri was not so assertive and understanding, she would never have been able to even admit that their relationship was "special".
With this we have Seri who cannot quite get a grasp on what their relationship is in relation to the 'common people' and Shouko who always second-guesses it.

Sakurako and Kasumi's issue with labels is very different from the others, because they seem entirely content with their isolated world and never adapt to the outside in the slightest. They have no need for labels, because they are not actually identifying themselves to anyone. They intimately understand each other's feelings and thus do not care enough to work through this. Their happiness is secure, so why change anything? Any outsider will just apply whatever labels they see fit to them and things continue to be smooth.
This is the part that hurt me, because I felt that Yukiko was so obssessed with this theme that she did it to the detriment of the characters. If you do not acknowledge the outside world, you cannot grow. I found it disheartening when I finally understood the overarching theme. Yukiko wants to show relationships that defy labels or struggle with them and I could not tell whether this was her preference being super-imposed on the story or if she was going somewhere with this beyond trying to be unique. The ambiguity was its own pain at points, but at least there was never clear DENIAL. When Sakurako and Kasumi mused over what their relationship was in the earlier chapters they came to the conclusion that it was many things at once, which could include being a couple. But now Sakurako straight up denied that they are dating. The need to not compromise to outward labels outgrew their sense of expression. Sakurako limited their relationship, downsized it, sealed it in that isolated space of their home. And then Moka simply agreed with Sakurako and accepted it, which to me seemed even more convenient from Yukiko, considering Moka's characterization as someone who understands the necessity of labels.

Anyway, enough about why I was foolishly hurt by something so silly, when it's more important why I am past it. I think I have come to see that this really does go somewhere. This theme is not just Yukiko's preference and I think that Sakurako's and Kasumi's relationship has moved to a point where it became clear that Sakurako's words there were deflection and intentionally so. She has created a reductionist view of their relationship, as she says "as long as we share the same home, that's enough" for now . She has already attained happiness and that's all there is to it. She is certain of Kasumi's love, she knows she loves Kasumi, so that's all there is to it. That's all there is ot it... But it's not. We know it's not, maybe more than Sakurako can.
It's because Sakurako only speaks for herself, but makes it sound like she speaks for both of them. She doesn't have Kasumi's input. She constantly, at every point, concedes everything to Kasumi, but it has gotten to a point where she pre-emptively takes Kasumi's side without even understanding how Kasumi has changed. The main reason, in my opinion, why Sakurako has never tried to say they are dating is simply because she thinks Kasumi doesn't want it that way. That's all there is to it. The same reason why they never had sex and the same reason why she overcompensates with her worship of Kasumi, an outlet of her emotions so strong that it makes her happy enough to ignore all the concessions she makes. She will never take a single step unless Kasumi does so first. Sakurako is stuck. Kasumi evolves. This has been happening the entire time and I just didn't connect it. A story so focused on boundaries and compromises is truly rare and I dearly hope Yukiko will stick the landing of that theme.
Regardless, we know they are happy, so it cannot ever be bad... just a tad disappointing.

Ykn1
joined Dec 20, 2018

She will never take a single step unless Kasumi does so first.

That... actually makes so much sense when you think about it. There have been a lot of times when people have questioned Kasumi's feelings, and all the times others including me have been pointing out how Kasumi actually tends to be the one moving their relationship forward. To quote myself from an earlier post I went great lengths to find:

Yeah, while Sakurako tends to be more vocal and over the top with her affection, Kasumi is often the one taking initiative instead. I did point a few instances out earlier, and continuing my rereading, I've also noted how it's Kasumi who suggests quite early on that they could live together after graduating high school. And then there's the chocolate banana incident. And suggesting going to the same college, surprising even Sakurako who was sure she would be against it, which even we readers would likely have expected this directly after her usual vocal outburst. And, of course, the legendary meeting with Sakurako's mom.

I honestly feel like I should note down whenever one or other of the two is initiating physical contact the next time I go through the series. It very much feels like it's actually more Kasumi than Sakurako, especially early on, but I'd need to actually check the numbers to be sure. :D

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

@Licentious Lantern: Thanks for your thoughts, which I've cut for reasons of space. I was less addressing your specific points which you so thoughtfully expressed than the general issues which come up again and again in this forum.

I will say (and I don't mean this to invalidate your personal reaction) that I think putting a lot of weight on the term "dating" (or any of the other labelling terms) goes counter to the themes of the story.

This part, however:

If you do not acknowledge the outside world, you cannot grow.

I'm not so sure how well that works as a generalization for romantic relationships, or for this one in particular. Sakurako and Kasumi have certainly acknowledged the outside world in their career plans and ambitions. And I don't see Sakurako as "limiting" their actual relationship--just what she's willing to say about it to others. The two of them can deepen their existing relationship without necessarily broadcasting about it to the rest of the world.

Carrot%202
Nevrilicious Scans
joined Jun 5, 2015

You're free to have your own interpretations and feelings about series etc. (although it's at least a very nice change that you're not denying they're in relationship), but I feel like you overthinking it. I have 2 issues that connect to each other with your post:

Licentious Lantern posted:

I will even go so far as to say that I have no desire to see them have sex, although I would love for the sexual component to be acknowledged eventually. That is essential to me, not as proof of their love, but as a necessary evolution of their dynamic. What I mean by that is even more longwinded so I'll save that for another time, but safe to say I am absolutely certain that they actually never had sex yet and that they can't until they reach that evolution I mentioned.

Why it's necessary though? Is eventually having sex a crucial element of having a relationship with someone? What about asexual people? Are you saying their relationships is stagnant or unable to progress further/deepen without sex? To me it feels like the reason you were hurt by those words is that you have certain expectations and understanding what "dating" someone means and how it should progress, so because to you it seemed like their relationship wasn't progressing, you took it as negative, while that's exactly why Kasumi and Sakurako don't want or can't define their relationship. Because to them it's more complicated, but at the same time, they don't necessary mind it and are fine with it just progressing at its own pace in any direction it'll take them.

Sakurako and Kasumi's issue with labels is very different from the others, because they seem entirely content with their isolated world and never adapt to the outside in the slightest. They have no need for labels, because they are not actually identifying themselves to anyone. They intimately understand each other's feelings and thus do not care enough to work through this. Their happiness is secure, so why change anything? Any outsider will just apply whatever labels they see fit to them and things continue to be smooth.

And I don't find any issue with that? As someone who isn't fan of labels and in fact, while I can understand why they're important to some people and can see their value in some situations, overall I think they do more harm than good. Labels exist, because people dislike things they don't understand and can't easily explain, so we have a biological need to categorize and describe stuff. We need name for everything and want it to be easy to explain. The downside of that is that we tend to oversimplify things and generalize. While being able to name something can be very helpful and give you insight into what it is exactly, once we name things we often stick to values and meanings that we ascribed to said thing and no longer see adding or removing anything from it as a option. That's why labels are so dangerous, they make things simpler, but also sets things in stone. Hence when for example you give Kasumi and Sakurako label of "dating" is also give certain expectations with it, just like in your example of Moka and Koruri. So in that sense I can see why they'd want to avoid labeling their relationship, because while it might have make it clearer or easier to understand for other people, it'd also automatically apply certain perceptions and expectations on them. Ones they might not necessary want to fulfill. Like having sex at some point for example.

What happens in your home, in your relationship is private and I don't see why they should have need to explain themselves to anyone. If they had a need to self-reflect or identify their relationship in some clear terms, then they would do that long ago. I don't see how being content with things as they are and not feeling need to label their relationship in clear terms in any way bad. Especially if said relationship doesn't neatly fit into existing labels and expectations. All they'd be doing is limiting themselves and doing it for other people convenience, not them, so why shouldn't they just let people call it w/e, when they have mutual, unspoken understanding of it that's working just fine so far? It's not like their relationship is necessary defined or reliant on their relation with other people and how they perceive them. So I think you saying they're "limiting" and "isolate" themselves is overthinking it a bit. I really dislike your implication that they have to change based on what people around think. Their relationship is their private matter and nobody owns a explanation or need to know about exact status of their relationship. Not everyone has need to identify and explain themselves to other people.

She has already attained happiness and that's all there is to it. She is certain of Kasumi's love, she knows she loves Kasumi, so that's all there is to it. That's all there is ot it... But it's not. We know it's not, maybe more than Sakurako can.

I know she's fictional character etc. but if she thinks she's happy, who are you to tell her she's not? It again feels like other people trying to define and label her relationship for her and telling her she's doing something wrong, when person in question is perfectly fine with things as they are.

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