Forum › Subtraction Tautology discussion

joined Apr 16, 2022

I really like how this arc characterized Reika. She's not malicious or evil like Himawari asserts; rather, she's immature, self-centered, and thoughtless -- a pretty accurate representation of what kind of adult dates teenagers in real life. Of course, that doesn't stop her from hurting Yurika deeply; if anything it makes it even harder for Yurika, who doesn't even get the luxury of hating the person who exploited her.

Onee2
joined Apr 28, 2022

Is it wrong that Yurika made me cry bat the same exact same time I was 100% glad with this outcome and her getting away from Reika?

Honestly outside of the small trip to the restaurant were very lacking in Yurika/Mianmo engagements recently. I need/want more of this.

Short%20hair%20ai%20san%20-%20by%20classic%20s%20-%20cropped
joined Sep 1, 2021

Himawari simply needs support, and has taken Yurika's feelings for granted. It's the common situation where someone exploits a difference in attraction or sexuality for favors, cachet, or even pride. I doubt Himawari had ill intentions so much as she's just inconsiderate, desperate, and volatile. She may never have thought about it in terms of taking advantage of Yurika. Beyond that I don't think it matters if Himawari eventually saw Yurika romantically.

Reika's arc and Himawari's sub-arc are mostly inverse. I love how much juxtaposition is in each arc of this manga.

  • Reika acted kind, took advantage of Yurika like a crutch for her own weakness, with purely selfish intentions, as a groomer, and apologized and made excuses like it was inevitable.
  • Himawari acted irritated, implicitly expected to take advantage of Yurkia's kindness to cover her own weakness, with neutral or hopeful intentions, as a friend, and unfairly (?) blamed Yurika assuming things could have been different.

Next moment after this chapter is where Yurika saw Minamo having her "for the first time my... my heart gravitated towards...". I hope we get an acknowledgement of this.

Deep depression and less money for food are dangerous and hurt. Support yuri ( ノ ゚ー゚)ノ https://masatsuka.fanbox.cc/

last edited at Aug 21, 2022 7:56PM

OrangePekoe Admin
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joined Mar 20, 2013

Masatsuka sensei (mangaka of this series) has recently lost their income due to depression while suffering from stress-induced deafness, and has been struggling financially for the past year and a half: https://www.reddit.com/r/yuri_manga/comments/wu5trs/masatsuka_sensei_of_hikizan_tautology_has/

You can support them on Fanbox (https://masatsuka.fanbox.cc/).

Thank you for sharing this.

joined Jan 3, 2020

I really love how this manga tackles so many different issues with a more realistic lens than most fiction.

I chipped in some to help support the author as well.

last edited at Aug 22, 2022 3:48PM

joined Jul 6, 2021

Yup, signed myself up to support them as well. This manga and the author are both wonderful

joined Aug 21, 2022

Masatsuka sensei has just posted on Twitter and Fanbox thanking everyone for their support.

joined Apr 16, 2022

Thanks for the updates, Miragecraft! I hadn't realized it until I read through their post, but I guess Subtraction Tautology is self-published? That's kind of crazy to think because it's legitimately one of the best ongoing manga out there IMO, regardless of genre. Hopefully Masatsuka-sensei gets picked up for a serialization at some point because their skill at writing dialogue is top of the top.

joined Aug 21, 2022

Thanks for the updates, Miragecraft! I hadn't realized it until I read through their post, but I guess Subtraction Tautology is self-published?

Looks like it, the full series is available on their website in Japanese (second banner from the sidebar).

They're also selling digital manga vol 1 & 2 on their Booth.pm page, but since I can't read Japanese I figured I might as well just pay them directly via Fanbox.

That's kind of crazy to think because it's legitimately one of the best ongoing manga out there IMO, regardless of genre.

Of course we all love it as fans, but looking at it objectively it has vertical paneling, (tastefully) simplistic art, no action, no explicit scenes (74 chapters in), no fan service, not moe, extremely dialogue heavy, tackles serious topics earnestly (to a fault), and is yuri.

Tell me if that doesn't have red flags (not profitable) written all over it for the Japanese domestic market.

Hopefully Masatsuka-sensei gets picked up for a serialization at some point because their skill at writing dialogue is top of the top.

Well, I'm not sure being subjected to deadlines and editor's scrutiny is ideal due to sensei's depression. I just hope Masatsuka sensei can live comfortably doing what they love (making manga) in whichever way they'd like.

last edited at Aug 23, 2022 9:31PM

fsadddfsa Uploader
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goon squad
joined Apr 11, 2021

That's kind of crazy to think because it's legitimately one of the best ongoing manga out there IMO, regardless of genre.

Of course we all love it as fans, but looking at it objectively it has vertical paneling, (tastefully) simplistic art, no action, no explicit scenes (74 chapters in), no fan service, not moe, extremely dialogue heavy, tackles serious topics earnestly (to a fault), and is yuri.

I pray for the day it gets adapted into a magazine similar to how Horimiya was adapted. I never read the longstrip version of it but I'm pretty sure the style, or at least the format is similar to this.

last edited at Aug 23, 2022 11:08PM

joined Apr 16, 2022

Of course we all love it as fans, but looking at it objectively . . . [it's] not moe

Speak for yourself, I think Minamo and Yurika are extremely moe.

But yeah I take your point, especially regarding the art. While I think the artstyle is quite fitting for the manga since it focuses attention squarely on the dialogue, I imagine most magazines would not see it that way If Masatsuka ever gets serialized it'd probably have to be as a writer strictly.

Well, I'm not sure being subjected to deadlines and editor's scrutiny is ideal due to sensei's depression. I just hope Masatsuka sensei can live comfortably doing what they love (making manga) in whichever way they'd like.

I take your point, but it depends; speaking as someone with some depressive tendencies, deadlines and scrutiny can help encourage you to be active/productive when you would otherwise wallow. But yes, if they can make a comfortable living just through fanbox/patreon and whatever "regular" jobs they can do, that would be fine too obviously. I just mainly wish more people read their work, lol.

joined Aug 21, 2022

If you plan to read through Matsatsuka sensei's Fanbox entries as a supporter, get ready for an all-expense-paid feels trip.

For non-Japanese speakers (like me), don't hesitate to go through them using translation websites (I used Google and DeepL). If you're multi-lingual try to switch between target languages when it comes to confusing/difficult to translate sections, usually one translation is vastly superior to the other.

My thoughts on Fanbox entries thus far

I've just started reading her older entries on Fanbox and I'm constantly getting flashbacks of Reddit's /r/depression. This is not just a behind the scene's look at manga-making, this is the artist baring her soul showing you her most vulnerable thoughts and struggles in it's rawest, most unfiltered and spontaneous form - sensitive, poetic, at times profane and incoherent, often depressing and sad, constantly striving (and failing and trying again) to be hopeful and optimistic.

(Yes, after reading the notes I can confirm sensei is a she. It's not like sensei is hiding it, I just wasn't 100% sure because so many male mangakas use female avatars...)

It's a very revealing yet uncomfortable read. I feel like I'm intruding into someone's personal space, "how the hell am I even allowed to peek into the innermost thought of a person like this?" I ask myself, yet I can't look away.

I feel a desperate urge to talk about what I've read with someone, simply to find an outlet for the pent up emotion I get from reading them, to have an nod of understanding with an unspoken "that was heavy and real".

Regrettably, I still don't fully understand certain passages because machine translation can only go so far, but I can't discuss/ask publicly, such is the case when it comes to supporter-only content.

So... if you are a supporter on Fanbox, I highly recommend you to go and read sensei's notes from the beginning. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to re-read the manga after going through everything.

You can really starting to see how the manga is a reflection of and outlet for sensei's personal struggles to make sense of life, relationships, woman and motherhood, love (romantic and parental), and the constant struggle to find purpose, meaning and a place to belong.

If you're not a supporter yet, getting to read those entries is a good reason to become one.

last edited at Aug 24, 2022 4:29PM

joined Aug 24, 2022

Was this originally written in Japanese or in Chinese? There was mention of Chinese in one of the translator notes, but it looks like it's taking place in Japan

Hi, yes the first few chapters were tled from chinese. However, I've managed to get my hands on a jtl and have been using him for the past like, 8 chapters which is why I was able to get this into dynasty.

But if you did read author's tweets carefully, you may know that the author doesn't allow unauthorized translation or reshipment. If you don't know(which can't be possible), please check it out now.

And I am very curious since masazuka only authorized ONE fan translation group translating it to Chinese and she is unable to use Chinese. I made a careful comparison between your Japanese-English translation and that group's Japanese-Chinese translation. Lots of evidence shows that you definitely took "several" references of the Chinese version,which is funny and suprising for a translator. I think the author and the Chinese fan translation group might appriciate it very much if you ask their opinions ahead. Especially for the fan translation group because they have helped a lot without even being mentioned :-)

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goon squad
joined Apr 11, 2021

Was this originally written in Japanese or in Chinese? There was mention of Chinese in one of the translator notes, but it looks like it's taking place in Japan

Hi, yes the first few chapters were tled from chinese. However, I've managed to get my hands on a jtl and have been using him for the past like, 8 chapters which is why I was able to get this into dynasty.

But if you did read author's tweets carefully, you may know that the author doesn't allow unauthorized translation or reshipment. If you don't know(which can't be possible), please check it out now.

And I am very curious since masazuka only authorized ONE fan translation group translating it to Chinese and she is unable to use Chinese. I made a careful comparison between your Japanese-English translation and that group's Japanese-Chinese translation. Lots of evidence shows that you definitely took "several" references of the Chinese version,which is funny and suprising for a translator. I think the author and the Chinese fan translation group might appriciate it very much if you ask their opinions ahead. Especially for the fan translation group because they have helped a lot without even being mentioned :-)

Mate I don't read Japanese, why would I read Japanese tweets? The chinese fan translations are in traditional, which I can only understand like, 1/4rth of. That's why the translators are credited under not me. I don't get why you'd think I'd have read her tweets if I did chinese translations before I scoured every corner of the universe for a translator.

The chinese group approached me today actually to inform me of that. So yeah, Himawari's going to contact the author, cause I don't know Japanese.

And yes, I take some references from the chinese translations when the jtls translate some parts awkwardly. I don't really see the problem in that as a proofreader. But maybe I'm just dum.

As for credit? Eh, I barely use the ctls for the past like, 5 chapters. I don't even know the group's name lol.

joined Aug 21, 2022

So yeah, Himawari's going to contact the author, cause I don't know Japanese.

Just a heads up, Matsatsuka sensei can actually read and write English (with the help of translation tool). Just need to keep the sentence structure simple so it's easier for the translation tool.

last edited at Aug 25, 2022 11:54PM

fsadddfsa Uploader
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goon squad
joined Apr 11, 2021

So yeah, Himawari's going to contact the author, cause I don't know Japanese.

Just a heads up, Matsatsuka sensei can actually read and write English (with the help of translation tool). Just need to keep the sentence structure simple so it's easier for the translation tool.

ah, cool

joined Aug 13, 2021

Reika's biggest problem, and the problem of a lot of adults getting into relationships with high schoolers, is immaturity and not wanting to be perceived as immature.
And when you're told you're immature, what is the best way to feel mature? Hang around those less mature than you, get into a relationship with someone inherently less mature than you. Reika got to feel like the provider, like she brought Yurika to maturity. But she was an irresponsible adult, who persevered with a vulnerable teenager who felt alone in her gayness. There was no world in which these kinds of relationships can work : they are based on imbalance and leave difficult to heal wounds.
Minamo is right to hate her, Reika is scummy. What I really like is that Yurika can't do it herself yet. I was worried when the fact that her ex was an adult hot brought up, but it was handled with a hell of a lot of care, and that's pretty amazing in my opinion.

38074
joined Jan 11, 2022

This series is wonderful and woefully underrated. A heartfelt thank you to goon squad for scanlating this manga.

joined Apr 16, 2022

I was worried when the fact that her ex was an adult hot brought up, but it was handled with a hell of a lot of care, and that's pretty amazing in my opinion.

Totally agreed. These last few chapters have given me a lot of faith in the mangaka's ability to tackle complex and difficult topics.

Not much to say about this chapter itself (though I really liked it), but I'd like to point out how important it was that Minamo herself said it's better for Yurika to think about her than about Reika. With how low Minamo's self-esteem is, I think that was a very big step for her; she now accepts that she can be a positive impact on other people's lives.

Onee2
joined Apr 28, 2022

Holy crap what an adorable freaking chapter. I think this chapter showed the most emotion from Minamo than she's had from the entire series so far. Her saying that to Yurika is just gonna make Yurika like her even more than she was clearly starting to do before the pedo came along. Getting her that Christmas present was just too adorable and her Minamo getting mad for her and telling her to basically stop hiding behind her lies of saying she was fine was just exactly what Yurika needed to hear... AND Minamo basically all but confessed without confessing... Her getting mad yes she was mad at the pedo and what she did to Yurika but I think part of that was jealousy as well which is what made her so mad to start yelling etc. This is 100% one of my favorite chapters of this series so far.

Seriously this series is so damn good a bit angsty at times but I love it it's so underrated and more people should be reading it.

D05536d6-01d1-4527-9102-4cc772fad5ed
joined Jul 6, 2020

I agree with the other commentors, really glad they handled the whole “in a relationship with an adult” thing well, and called Reiko what she is. Scum.

….also that was like, definitely a love confession right???

Short%20hair%20ai%20san%20-%20by%20classic%20s%20-%20cropped
joined Sep 1, 2021

The execution of this chapter cements this series as my favorite ongoing manga. Minamo's assertive compassion and the most delicate side of Yurika were cathartic to read. Other emotions were heartwrenching, and I'm glad to be done with the Reika flashback. The way Masatsuka-sensei draws expressions and posture is, as always, very moving.

The literal and metaphorical situation with the earrings was so bittersweet! Yurika wanted pierced ears, it was a good thing that came about in empty relationship, and now Yurika will wear earrings from Minamo there instead. Mood. Sometimes good things build upon how we changed in earlier bad situations.

….also that was like, definitely a love confession right???

Yeah. The confession clarified their close relationship, even if the label may stay ambiguous. Minamo offered long-term support and Yurika happily accepted and may think of her every day. Add that to them both signalling attraction to the other.

last edited at Sep 23, 2022 1:54PM

Jesus
joined Sep 3, 2022

Yeah, Reiko is trash, but that also should be the case with Minamo's father, her step mom had her sister at 19 years old, and was introduced to the family at age of 17. Reiko was shittier because Yurika was younger than Minano's step mother, but still, a 17 years old is still developing and have few life experience. Maybe that will be adressed later, because she could easily be 23-25 years old.

joined Apr 16, 2022

Yeah, Reiko is trash, but that also should be the case with Minamo's father, her step mom had her sister at 19 years old, and was introduced to the family at age of 17. Reiko was shittier because Yurika was younger than Minano's step mother, but still, a 17 years old is still developing and have few life experience. Maybe that will be adressed later, because she could easily be 23-25 years old.

I have to assume it'll be addressed, the similarity is too blatant to not be intentional. Minamo's father has been kind of a specter hanging over the entire manga, the backstory paints him in a quite negative light but at the same time he does appear to treat his daughters well (...when he's around, at least). I'd understand why Minamo sides with him because he did stick around while both her mothers left her and her sister(s), but hopefully Yurika's story will give her a better understanding of what her stepmother went through.

S
joined Apr 24, 2022

I like this series a lot

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