^^ Not only kids that miss this concept

I think Fuuko is a hero because she's hot and manipulating people is badass. She's the Odysseus of this story.

Yuni's actions make perfect sense here and she's 100% making the right play. She wants to have her cake and eat it too, so why wouldn't she rush into Nanase's arms? It's not like Fuuko will give up on her. Yuni wants to have BOTH Nanase and Fuuko obsessed with her, and this is a step in the right direction.

Nanase is the only one acting irrationally here. She should dump the cheating bitch and get with her volleyball friend. She's blaming herself because she didn't pay Yuni enough attention, but that's stupid. God damn, have some self-respect.

THE ODYSSEUS OF THE STORY

I LOVE THAT ANALYSIS

I can't believe there are people in a yuri forum who preach teen chastity.

I get enough of that sicko shit from Christian conservatives in everyday life; I don't come here to read that girls with an active sex life are brainless.

Why is everyone in this damn forum assuming every teenager is some sort of brainless horndog? snip rant

Wow, you poor victim. You sound like the guys who claim White Anglo-Saxon Protestants are the real racial victims because they're always discriminated against by the overprivileged darker-skinned minorities.

last edited at Aug 26, 2023 2:07PM

I can't believe there are people in a yuri forum who preach teen chastity.

I get enough of that sicko shit from Christian conservatives in everyday life; I don't come here to read that girls with an active sex life are brainless.

I don't think anyone is preaching, nor saying that, it's more about having some restrained.You don't sleep around when you are in a relationship just because you can't keep your hormones in check, Yuni is not a god damn animal.

Having next to no inhibition even at that age are signs of psychological problems or extreme lack of maturity.

It's completely fine to be promiscuous if that floats your boat but doing that while in a relationship is just scummy. I think the problem is this whole thing speaks to edgy young people while older folks like me who have been there, done that know it's unhealthy and that sparks all kinds of discussion.

Speaking about immaturity/becoming mature and feel responsible is not an overnight process like we can say "in EXACTLY that age you are mature"
It's about a spectrum too (a cycle).
It takes years and years of learning and gaining life experiences until you are enough forged to finally act completely mature and responsible.

Thing is, to us is nothing given for granted whatever are norms of society, we are to discover who we are, individually.

There are kids forced by life circumstances to become mature before their age for it comes (but their maturity is still just only one part of the whole process).

Mentioned year of 25 is approximately when someone gained enough life experience to become completely formed person.
It does not mean until that age they completely acted immature in everything and decided "Oh, now I'm 25 and I'm mature now" (or 18, or 21, it's individual)

And the moment when we individually start to feel enough mature and responsible is not stopping us to learn and discover more about ourselves, who we are. We have the whole life ahead for it, to learn about ourselves AND OTHERS, and improve ourselves in everything.

Anyway, this "preaching intro" is very connected with this manga.
Observe Nanase through it:

Nanase is already very mature for her professional life, and ready to take her responsibility for it in age of 16-17!
But she is not yet formed person, and it shows through her emotional immaturity and "readiness" to have the girlfriend.
(She is currently in the process of learning how to find the balance between those two important parts of her which are on different points of her life spectrum, not aligned)

last edited at Aug 27, 2023 7:35AM

I can't believe there are people in a yuri forum who preach teen chastity.

I get enough of that sicko shit from Christian conservatives in everyday life; I don't come here to read that girls with an active sex life are brainless.

Why is everyone in this damn forum assuming every teenager is some sort of brainless horndog? snip rant

Wow, you poor victim. You sound like the guys who claim White Anglo-Saxon Protestants are the real racial victims because they're always discriminated against by the overprivileged darker-skinned minorities.

Holy Christ on a cracker you actually have very serious issues you need to work out yourself instead of venting on a Yuri comment section. The mere suggestion that sex isn’t everything in a relationship and Nanase not being a terrible significant other just because she doesn’t raw dog Yuni every day is not a radical opinion

last edited at Aug 26, 2023 6:11PM

Holy Christ on a cracker you actually have very serious issues you need to work out yourself instead of venting on a Yuri comment section.

"And now I'm going to throw some PERSONAL ATTACKS and INSULTS! That's gonna make me win the discussion for sure!"

Holy Christ on a cracker you actually have very serious issues you need to work out yourself instead of venting on a Yuri comment section.

"And now I'm going to throw some PERSONAL ATTACKS and INSULTS! That's gonna make me win the discussion for sure!"

Something the OP clearly did not do? You are very clearly not obviously biased toward a side in this argument

last edited at Aug 27, 2023 1:00AM

Holy Christ on a cracker you actually have very serious issues you need to work out yourself instead of venting on a Yuri comment section.

"And now I'm going to throw some PERSONAL ATTACKS and INSULTS! That's gonna make me win the discussion for sure!"

Something the OP clearly did not do? You are very clearly not obviously biased toward a side in this argument

Them personal attacks again...

The OP pointed that the fallacy of chastity discrimination is exactly the same as the fallacy of reverse racism. This a valid logical argument.

You accused your contradictors of being biased and having mental issues. Those are ad hominem arguments, personal attacks, and the fact that you can't tell the difference makes me suspect you don't understand logical thinking at all.

Just a small announcement before telling something about Fuuko.
The "preaching intro" updated (edited and corrected), inspired by current situation in this thread:

We have the whole life ahead for it, to learn about ourselves AND OTHERS, and improve ourselves in everything.

Edit: addition of the words "AND OTHERS" which were missing, to complete the statement.

..................

Now, let's observe Fuuko through this "maturity spectrum":

She is the most mature of those three characters. However f-ed up she is, she is owning it.
And she is better match for immature Yuni, to guide her and give her stability what completely insecure and immature Yuni needs.

But the main problem here is her TENDENCY FOR MANIPULATION.
She is not doing things naturally with Yuni, practically alluring her to love her or become dependent on her (it's same as using a bribe).
It would not be fair to win Yuni over, under such circumstances.
It's not pure, and it's not a good foundation for development of an healthy relationship for which those 2 characters have a chance by making right moves and right choices.

Yuni must come to Fuuko by her own will realizing that she truly cares for her, not because she feels alone, bored, or in need (of any kind), and not because she is bribed....

There's an actual POWER PLAY between Nanase and Fuuko, and Yuni is just like a tool they both are using against each other. But in same time Yuni enjoys the flood of attention and interests she currently receives, it's not that she is an innocent victim here, being objectified.

Is that power play actually some mutual sexual tension between Nanase and Fuuko?
Right now we don't know what author is preparing for us and how exactly the things will go, but anything is possible and the story is amazing!

^ “Fuuko is not pure”—ah, right. Got it.

^ “Fuuko is not pure”—ah, right. Got it.

Nobody says Fuuko is not pure, it's your free misinterpretation.
Her wish to be with Yuni is from pure love for Yuni, but she is making wrong moves to get her (and we all saw how unsuccessful it was, it does not matter how breathtaking her caterpillar fungi manipulation was)
Nobody can be "forced" or manipulated to love someone if they really don't feel love for them, there's no money or any kind of bribe to pull it off.

What are your reasons to misinterpret such an obvious statement?
Your remarks here on the forum are usually righteous and correct, even when you are teasing. Did you really keep same level this time?

last edited at Aug 27, 2023 11:01AM

^ “Fuuko is not pure”—ah, right. Got it.

Nobody says Fuuko is not pure, it's your free misinterpretation.
Her wish to be with Yuni is from pure love for Yuni, but she is making wrong moves to get her (and we all saw how unsuccessful it was, it does not matter how breathtaking her caterpillar fungi manipulation was)
Nobody can be "forced" or manipulated to love someone if they really don't feel love for them, there's no money or any kind of bribe to pull it off.

What are your reasons to misinterpret such an obvious statement?

It should have been obvious to anyone that I was making a joke about someone coming along with some sort of wellness-living lecture, prattling about “a good foundation for a healthy relationship” to these particular characters.

I take it as a given that someone who finger-fucks someone else’s girlfriend in a high-school locker room won’t score very high on the “purity” spectrum.

last edited at Aug 27, 2023 11:06AM

I was making a joke about someone coming along with some sort of wellness-living lecture, prattling about “a good foundation for a healthy relationship” to these particular characters.

Actually it's written:

She is not doing things naturally with Yuni, practically alluring her to love her or become dependent on her (it's same as using a bribe).
It would not be fair to win Yuni over, under such circumstances.
It's not pure, and it's not a good foundation for development of an healthy relationship for which those 2 characters have a chance by making right moves and right choices.

So, basically the statement is, when simplified:
"Making someone feel dependable on someone is not good base for an healthy relationship" (or relationship at all)

And it's a life-fact, nothing like "lecture of wellness-being".
And it's a general statement made through the example of manipulative actions of Fuuko, to explain why her intentions failed (for now).

And, your mockery about "those" characters having an healthy relationship (eventually after learning their life-lessons), why not?
What is there about to mock? Do you mean all girls that age, who are similar with characters in this manga, are doomed to fail and never get their happiness with someone?

Your comments on this forum are usually righteous and correct even when you are teasing, and now, are they really?

last edited at Aug 27, 2023 11:52AM

And, your mockery about "those" characters having an healthy relationship (eventually after learning their life-lessons), why not?
What is there about to mock? Do you mean all girls that age, who are similar with characters in this manga, are doomed to fail and never get their happiness with someone?

You can be assured that, unless otherwise specified, I will never be referring to “all girls” when I am discussing fictional characters.

I think that there is a great deal of useless and irrelevant moralizing discourse in Dynasty forums which ignores the specific context within stories as well as the context of authorial creation in order to generalize about real-life behavior or to speculate about characters as if they were real-life human beings.

Again, I take it as a given that all three of the major characters here are making seriously bad choices in their relationships that add up to an example of the “emotional trainwreck” sub-genre of the yuri romance genre.

The notion of a “healthy relationship” (as opposed to what they’re doing now) is far in the distance in this particular story, and the concept of “purity” seems especially beside the point when applied to these characters.

Whether any of the characters will ever learn positive “life-lessons” from the events represented in this story is an open question at this point, the answer to which (if one is ever given) lies with the author’s decisions as to what will happen to the character-constructs they have created rather than being a function of the imaginary psychologies of those characters.

last edited at Aug 27, 2023 12:41PM

I think that there is a great deal of useless and irrelevant moralizing discourse in Dynasty forums which ignores the specific context within stories as well as the context of authorial creation in order to generalize about real-life behavior or to speculate about characters as if they were real-life human beings.

Yeah.
"How can you like/defend her, she is a CHEATER! Just burn the bitch!" or
"People who support a homewrecker like her need a serious therapy!"
etc. We all have seen same scenario so many times...
And then follows a lot of unnecessary attacks on people who are analyzing characters or have sympathies for those who "don't deserve sympathies because they are not morally pure".

We are on same "wavelengths" here. Such useless discourses are really the most boring thing on the forum, repeating over and over...uhhhhh

Again, I take it as a given that all three of the major characters here are making seriously bad choices in their relationships that add up to a example of the “emotional trainwreck” sub-genre of the yuri romance genre.

Great genre, something so refreshing and more "real", if you get the meaning of that real...

The notion of a “healthy relationship” (as opposed to what they’re doing now) is far in the distance in this particular story, and the concept of “purity” seems especially beside the point when applied to these characters.

Obviously we misunderstood each other. It was wrong choice of wording. "Pure" here should mean like, winning over someone should be a crystal clear winning, fair and square, without using a questionable "additional aids" to influence love interest. So, pure not in a sense of morally pure. Maybe there is a better word, but now it's done what is done....
And, phrasing other thing as " an healthy relationship" really sounds so cheap, so yeah, no hard feelings here.
It's understandable why you perceived the whole thing like "moralizing", what was not the intention.
Thanks for the explanations. It's all clear now.

Whether any of the characters will ever learn positive “life-lessons” from the events represented in this story is an open question at this point, the answer to which (if one is ever given) lies with the author’s decisions as to what will happen to the character-constructs they have created rather than being a function of the imaginary psychologies of those characters.

Yes. It's a wonderful mystery of creations, and as you say, inspiration really is not in their imaginary psychologies, it's just the proof that creation is exceptionally good if it fits characterization.
Thanks again for your kind clarifications.

last edited at Aug 27, 2023 1:32PM

I'm still baffled over the fact that a mentally ill character in a manga about cheating becomes some sort of hero to people. But sure she makes the series fun, and it is fun to complain about her and the other characters.

Also, I don't get why people think Fuuko actually loves Yuni. Even in chapter 19 she was saying cheat on her with me, not be with me. I always got the impression that she wanted to break up the relationship and be picked, but not necessarily be in a long term relationship with Yuni. I mean who would.

Thanks for the explanations. It's all clear now.

And apologies for my misunderstanding—I see that I was reading too quickly, and no doubt was “snark-triggered” by seeing the word “pure” applied to the wonderfully sleazy Fuuko.

Thanks for the explanations. It's all clear now.

And apologies for my misunderstanding—I see that I was reading too quickly, and no doubt was “snark-triggered” by seeing the word “pure” applied to the wonderfully sleazy Fuuko.

No need for apologize, really no hard feelings here (but is accepted since you offered even if it was not whole fault of yours; apologies to you too, for using weak and not so precise wording)
It's understandable what happened, it was about the thread. There were comments above connected with chastity and it pulled you to set your mind on it, and it triggered you to react on "pure" similarly. It happens, please don't worry.
Glad that we solved misunderstanding!

last edited at Aug 27, 2023 2:51PM

I can't believe there are people in a yuri forum who preach teen chastity.

I get enough of that sicko shit from Christian conservatives in everyday life; I don't come here to read that girls with an active sex life are brainless.

Why is everyone in this damn forum assuming every teenager is some sort of brainless horndog? snip rant

Wow, you poor victim. You sound like the guys who claim White Anglo-Saxon Protestants are the real racial victims because they're always discriminated against by the overprivileged darker-skinned minorities.

I have nothing to say except "bruh"

Now, let's observe Fuuko through this "maturity spectrum":

She is the most mature of those three characters. However f-ed up she is, she is owning it.
And she is better match for immature Yuni, to guide her and give her stability what completely insecure and immature Yuni needs.

But the main problem here is her TENDENCY FOR MANIPULATION.
She is not doing things naturally with Yuni, practically alluring her to love her or become dependent on her (it's same as using a bribe).
It would not be fair to win Yuni over, under such circumstances.
It's not pure, and it's not a good foundation for development of an healthy relationship for which those 2 characters have a chance by making right moves and right choices.

Yuni must come to Fuuko by her own will realizing that she truly cares for her, not because she feels alone, bored, or in need (of any kind), and not because she is bribed....

I love your analyses. They're so insightful!
I was thinking about the way the Fuuko x Yuni relationship evolved as the story advanced and I recalled something: Fuuko actually tried to let Yuni come to her on her own, just as you suggest... didn't she?
Chapter 15, lunch break. Fuuko is eating at the rooftop stairs. Yuni texts her that she wants to meet her. "Come to me!" writes Fuuko, and Yuni goes to see her. Yuni starts complaining about her trouble with Nanase and Yuki, and Fuuko stops her and speaks clearly: Yuni must make a decision! "Cheating is bad. Your girlfriend is more important than me? Then it's fine to dump me! It's the right thing to do. What do you want to do? Do you want to stop our affair, and go back to her? Make up your mind!" Yuni is so shocked!
And her choice is very decisive: she decides not to break up with Fuuko. She goes to Fuuko (on all fours lol), kisses her and begs her to stay by her side. Fuuko agrees, and in chapter 16 we find them still kissing and Yuni makes an ambiguous promise to never leave Fuuko as long as she keeps the Moon piercing on her ear.

Well, in chapter 20 she's still wearing that piercing! All chapter long! Even in her last panel, where she leaves with Nanase, she still has the piercing on her ear! Lol, talk about confusing and contradictory signals... no wonder Fuuko is vexed and indignant! Who is the real Yuni, the one who acted 100% docile and obedient to Nanase or the one who cried that she couldn't live without Fuuko? This is the kind of puzzling question Fuuko is facing right now...

Now, let's observe Fuuko through this "maturity spectrum":

She is the most mature of those three characters. However f-ed up she is, she is owning it.
And she is better match for immature Yuni, to guide her and give her stability what completely insecure and immature Yuni needs.

But the main problem here is her TENDENCY FOR MANIPULATION.
She is not doing things naturally with Yuni, practically alluring her to love her or become dependent on her (it's same as using a bribe).
It would not be fair to win Yuni over, under such circumstances.
It's not pure, and it's not a good foundation for development of an healthy relationship for which those 2 characters have a chance by making right moves and right choices.

Yuni must come to Fuuko by her own will realizing that she truly cares for her, not because she feels alone, bored, or in need (of any kind), and not because she is bribed....

I love your analyses. They're so insightful!

Thank you very much! There could be a better choice of wording but OK, it's solved now...

I recalled something: Fuuko actually tried to let Yuni come to her on her own, just as you suggest... didn't she?

Yes. Yuni indeed already came to her. But it was because they were seen in Osaka by Yuki, and she complains about Nanase having doubts in her. Her motives to come to Fuuko are not yet for loving her.
Probably her denial of "embarrassing" desires is stopping her to make clear with herself what she truly feels.
She is definitely sexually attracted to Fuuko, but for her it's embarrassing to admit to herself or dig deeper behind sexual attraction.
Anyway, she is coming to Fuuko again and again, but for the mentioned reasons (feeling alone, bored, in need...), it's not yet enough to choose Fuuko.

Now, for Yuni, a popular athlete Nanase in dom mode is more attractive than nerdy weirdo Fuuko with her caterpillar fungi books and starry night sky in the storage.
It's shallow, but she is keeping herself shallow because she does not want to dig deeper for now.
What is going to happen in next chapters should be very interesting to see.

last edited at Aug 27, 2023 7:36PM

I don't think it'll be smooth sailing from here on out... Maybe it will be. Who knows.

Bruh tf y'all even arguing about

I don't think it'll be smooth sailing from here on out... Maybe it will be. Who knows.

It won't. Nanase can't give Yuni the level of attention she wants, not to mention the xxx. Even if she starts spending a little less of her free time with her teammates and a little more with Yuni, it won't change much.

And Fuuko must be furious. There are ways of breaking a love triangle without being rude or offensive to the person you're dumping, but Yuni ignored all of them and chose the meanest way. When/if Yuni returns to Fuuko, she won't get a warm welcome.