Forum › Posts by HayaH

joined Dec 23, 2018

I have no idea what your point is super to be

No worries. I said for now I don't expect that many ppl will understand what I said. Nobody of you is stupid if you don't understand.
We often can't understand things when we don't have enough info or we are informed wrongly.

I'm just observing things philosophically, using logic conclusions and universal principles in this analyze.

Let's say, it's like when we see the beginning of new manga, and we comment our predictions about how it ends, who is the end-game, etc.
Even if we know (guess) the ending, we must patiently wait for every chapter and enjoy the story in the meantime.
We know beginning (the idea) and the end (the result) of the manga, but we must see development of characters, what they have to pass through to come to the ending point (realization)
That's what I call FULL CYCLE.
It's the universal principle functioning through everything.
The beginning is always one idea, the ending is when that idea materialize and gets its full shape.
And we are able to see clearly ALL PHASES of development.
We finally gain insight into everything and we understand all at once.
We'll know answers on every why? and how? clearly...

I applied same principle on trans ppl, observing situation through premises of this manga (mentioned above)
But let me now be subjective and explain what it means to me, as transgender person.

At the beginning, when I realized that I'm transgender man, it was just one idea of myself (of my true self). I was a man "in an abstract form".
I simply was invisible to others of who I am.
If I wanted to become happy and seen as me and avoid confusions,
I had to start transition to materialize my idea (yeah, it was literally a bulb shining above my head, the Light of truth and source of my happiness).
I had to become materially visible as me to others and to myself, simply for reasons to avoid confusions and uncomfortable situations for me.
One of the examples:
I don't have female sexuality, and I was very uncomfortable if ppl were looking at me seeing and treating myself as a female.

What I pointed above in my previous comment, was that I see transition as RETURN to my original self (through fixing my physical shape)
It's not about my "wish" to change sex, or become something what I was not. I was doing it to realize myself
(it's not connected with full sex change of the body, every transgender and queer person has own preferences or readiness to which point their transition will go, or how they wish to express themselves)
And the universal principle of full cycle is simply the point where they realize idea of themselves and become comfortable and visible enough to function as they are (without being mistaken with wrong ID, etc)

I compared it all with premises in manga, like, cis man (male) is supernaturally turned into female. It presents to us typical transgender situation, when the awareness of the ML is the same. He did not express any trans girl "tendencies" before (what I was arguing ppl here, and as I remember one of your comments, you also said that he is just a normal boy. So I say the same, and I think every trans person in right sex of their body would be like normal (cis person) to everyone)
That's why I say, the theory in manga that transgender ppl actually were cis ppl once turned "supernaturally" (for unknown reasons to us right now) into opposite sex, looks true to me when I apply universal full cycle principle.
In reality, transition is RETURN to self from physical form which does not fit the essence (self).
All what we have to do now is to understand the riddle of "the curse"
and the meaning of "the kiss". Then we'll know everything about trans "phenomena", all what is still hidden from us. We don't have enough info to understand all fully, but I predict it will change in close future.

As I said, I'm just observing the matter philosophically, using logic conclusions and universal principles in this analyze.
And it's all now in form of an idea, where I'm predicting the result based on logic and my personal knowledge and experiences.
So, give me the chance and be patient for the full story to uncoil in it's time.
I guarantee all of you will understand EVERY word I wrote in my comments and see that I am not insulting or harming anyone.

joined Dec 23, 2018

I'm observing this manga setting as premise that some "curse" turns cis ppl into trans ("curse" is just metaphoric expression of some unknown power which we call supernatural because we can't explain it, having not enough info what is real cause of transformation)
That premise could easily be the truth (truth revealed to us in metaphorical way, through the riddle of one artwork)

Why I say cis ppl are turned into trans ppl in this manga?
We see only physical "shapeshifting", the essence stays the same
(both characters who turned into girls are still completely aware of themselves who they are/were).
There's no change on psycho-emotional level(characters never expressed "wishes", no gender questionings, etc.)

So, the theory that transgender ppl were cis before is very possible to be the truth. Why?
From where their awareness of being captured in wrong body comes?
It must be before that transformation/shapeshifting, like in manga.
It would confirm that we live more than one life, and that we have some abstract memories (awareness) on our being.
And that we keep awareness of changes through our being (essence) is passing, beyond the time.

Anyway, the word transition applied on trans ppl is telling all.
Let's say that we observe transition as "the journey from point A to point B" (ftm or mtf).
I'm saying here and now, that FULL transition cycle is actually (m)-to-ftm, and (f)-to-mtf!
Someone who was previously male is transitioning and returns to male again, and (previously) female is transitioning and returns to female.
It MUST be full cycle, by laws of nature.
It shows clearly that transgender ppl are not "insane" while being aware who they are from an early age. They just don't have the physical proof.
And I claim it's something before their current existence in transgender form.

So, we actually have to examine this premise given in manga as the truth, and resolve the riddle what is metaphor for "the curse".
(we could say the author is highly inspired, spreading the codded message to us to tell us something what is hidden and unknown for now)

Manga says, it's "the kiss" what FEMALE does to cis man (male), what can change his physical form into female (and it would be vice versa if it is about trans girls. We just have to invert situation).
And, of course, take "the kiss" as the metaphor for something else what cause "shapeshift".
I would also take this premise of "the kiss" as metaphorically given true statement.

Sometimes we are getting true info through visions (in riddles)
It can happen through dreams or through art.
How we will understand riddles, it's upon us and our mindsets.

I'm just saying that I believe that premises of this manga are true.
And I also know a lot that I can say something revolutionary here.
My next step would be to move backward from the conclusion, to find the logic thread which will make full cycle and explain why the conclusion is the truth (in reality of life, I would try to find the answers)
If I assumed correctly, the road of confirmations will become open.
When the cycle is full and confirmation threads connected without missing links, we can say that the premise is proven.
We are experiencing enlightenment in that moment, grasping everything at once.

Sometimes we must act on hunch and believe, before we are able to see "the proof".

Well, I'm now too ahead of time, writing these words.
And it's possible that many ppl won't understand me now.
But I'm curious how much time will pass until what I say here shows as the truth (as confirmed).
Future will tell, and I hope soon.
I would not like to wait too long, for freedom of all of us who have to fight society on gender or sexual orientation levels.
I'm bringing the good news to all of you, wishing you all the happy Day of Freedom and Acceptance!
Let's wait and see that Day soon.
(Try to understand my explanations here about full cycles)

last edited at Mar 23, 2024 3:19AM

How to Draw an Ellipse 21 Mar 16:34
joined Dec 23, 2018

Woah, I was so close counting approximately from my mind, guessing their age gap as max 15 years (I thought Minsung was 10-11 yo in that time, not 7-8 years, and their gap actually was 12-13 years. It explains the mistake)

I'm very curious about Miyeon's background story...

Now is going to be interesting to see what is going to happen at the meeting. It looks to me like Juha is a ticking bomb, the weapon which
Youngae plans to use. We'll see...

joined Dec 23, 2018

I don't think both of them want to see each other for cheating reasons.
They have so many new self-discoveries which they want to share with someone who fully understands.
They are each other persons.

How to Draw an Ellipse 15 Mar 01:49
joined Dec 23, 2018

I'm still in.
But now so many things are happening at once, flashbacks, present, past, all intertwined.
Let's see more how situation develops.
I really don't know what to say for now, except there was that scene with Miyeon brushing almost uttered name of Juha from her lips.
It was hilarious!

And Juha all of sudden appearing in yoke, ready for "the inquisition" !

I'm really enjoying those little details about characters and author's sense of humor.

joined Dec 23, 2018

I'm actually pretty fond of Koto.
It's not like I hate her so being picky about her. Just can't turn back on what I have seen. I still like her more than Erika even though I see her as a control freak.

While Aya is like the girl out of my dream, my first love is Koto type of girl.
However, I am not even half clever or mature as Aya back then when I was a teenager.
We literally tortured each other.
That relationship is totally a disaster and not ends very well for both of us.

I'm similar as you. I see same things about Koto and I like her more than Erika. But I like past Koto better than Koto now (as personality).

I like Erika now better, than Erika in school.

And Aya...she has some elegance. I'm truly rooting for her to find her place after all what pushed her 7 years forward.
Anyway, I'm still reserved (about ships and all)
I'm prepared for unexpected twists.

About your relationship experience, don't worry. It happens to many, sooner or later. I also had some bad experiences. It's learning.

And, I have to tell that I did not point on you for talking about Koto.
I meant generally (more like Erika's fans became too passionate, ha ha)

joined Dec 23, 2018

Now, after seeing how much it escalated, I feel sorry starting all of this about Koto on page 5 (comment from October 2023)
And this one on page 6

when I said: "Koto is getting creepier with every next chapter"

Why I'm sorry if I was right?
Because I don't think Koto deserves so much hatred (at least not for now, we'll see after development)

At this point, I think every MC has some dark hidden side (Aya, Koto, and Erika equally)
And for me is too early to side with anyone.
I don't want my heart broken, just in case.

joined Dec 23, 2018

-Mother's face looks very similar like face of Nanase!

It could be coincidence if there's not another similarity:
-Mother was always busy and Yuni waited for her to come home.

Sounds familiar?
I'm curious if someone noticed same things as me, or have any thoughts about what I said?

Don't see the facial similarity, but you're cooking with the similarity between Yuni's mom and Nanase.
Both are too busy to spend much time with Yuni, who is lonely while she waits for them.

It's not that I am implying something incestuous between Yuni and her mom, talking about their similarities. I just wanted to say that Yuni has an ideal of woman, formed on image of her mother.
I carefully observed facial features of mom and Nanase, there are certain similarities in shape, eyes, and expressions.
And that other similarity, a business, and always leaving Yuni waiting for them.

Yuni simply projected the image of her mother finding resemblance of it in Nanase, because that's the best she could have known, that's how she grew up. It's "the model" Yuni was subconsciously searching for.

Now, there's the question, is it enough to get physical resemblance of your ideal type of woman in someone else who fits even "the style" (both of them are professionally always busy)?
It's not enough, as we saw from the previous drama.
What was lacking here is the third part of Yuni's ideal woman?
It's receiving AFFECTION of her mother!

Is it now more clear why she was confused by coldness of Nanase?
Is it now possible to see clearly the reasons why she cheated?

Yuni is someone who was raised with great amount of affection and she is dying without it. She found "the lacking part" in Fuuko.
She simply connected all 3 parts of her ideal woman through Nanase and Fuuko together, to get the feeling of wholeness, to feel like home.

Now she is maturing, faced with the problem of illusion of the image of her ideal woman, because her priorities are not anymore based on physical appearance and attraction, she wants to feel connection, to feel intimacy with someone and share it.
She grew up from craving affection too, thinking about her future.
She does not need her mother anymore, she grew up.

I hope my remarks about resemblance, and their explanation, can be helpful to people to understand Yuni better and forgive her mistakes of her youth (cheating) and start to see depth of her character growth.

To add to comment to the other user who mentioned resemblance between Yuni's cat and Fuuko, I completely agree with symbolism. (and their description above is beautiful)
Yuni's true love is actually in allegory of that cat, it's all she needs to be happy. All she streams.
It's true, her cat died, but Fuuko is alive. And Yuni is not anymore that little girl.

last edited at Feb 20, 2024 7:48PM

How to Draw an Ellipse 20 Feb 18:29
joined Dec 23, 2018

Oh sorry. No. I did not mean it like that. I more meant how they come together after being abandoned by their partners. It comes off as somewhat unhealthy. But I do think they are very adorable together and they are the couple who show the most amount of chemistry together.

Ah, then I misinterpreted and I'm glad that I did.
It would be too much. First those incestuous allusions about Miyeon and Minsung, and then Juha and Youngae as relatives? Really too much!
I better be wrong about that surname.
And yeah, they are so cute together. For me it's such delicacy finding yuri works where authors are able to "draw" that chemistry between characters. It's phenomena. I admire those authors.

I think it is very interesting how their relationship is perceived. I have seen a lot of comments, both in English and Korean, where people express disgust over their relationship. They are not daughter and mother by blood, but Minsung and Miyeon are widely seen as mother and daughter. Both by the readers and other people in the story. Both Juha and Youngae see their relationship in that light. But we know that Minsung never saw their relationship like that and was offended when Juha called Miyeon her mother. But she was adopted when she was 7, and she lived with Miyeon until she was in her 20s. So, for over 13 years their relationship was something like that. When I see the chapters where we see Miyeon and Minsung as a kid, I only see a parent with her child. She clearly acts like a mother figure. But then when Minsung gets older something changes and their relationship no longer can be defined in that manner. I hope that gets explored further. As it is pretty strange. But like I said before, when their relationship was redefined, there was some sort of mutual attraction, that was both physical and emotional. Miyeon did not see Minsung as her child, but rather as her partner. Like you say. I want to learn more about why that happened. I really wish we would get some sort of perspective on how they define their relationship.

I can understand your points clearly and I can understand how other people perceive it and why.
I'm not sure am I not able to understand fully family relations because of having a toxic parents, or it's about my impression from the beginning, that I could not see them as mother and daughter. I must admit that I'm completely indifferent toward those incestuous allusions in their case.
But I do understand people's POV and yours, I just don't feel anything what would move me and cause ANY reactions.
At least until we get the whole perspective. Then I hope something will move me to finally react and feel something more than indifference.

As I am reading the story again, I must say that I have problems with understanding the relationship between Miyeon and Youngae. Miyeon clearly hates Youngae, and several times makes remarks about how she hates her relationship with Youngae. I think her being abandoned by Youngae must really have done a number on her psyche. The sad thing is that if she and Youngae communicated better a lot of pain could have been avoided.

I think that I had same impression (still not rereading), but I remember that Miyeon always seemed to me reserved to Youngae, almost annoyed by her. I remember her wearing same clothes (no efforts to look her best for their dates), so, I always felt it onesided. Like that Miyeon wanted something else and something more. But she never refused Youngae.
There is something else in Miyeon, it's not abandonment of Youngae.
It goes deeper and earlier. It could be something from her childhood.
It could even be connected with her mother, or some other female from her past who was close to her or even related by blood.

last edited at Feb 20, 2024 9:33PM

joined Dec 23, 2018

People, I figured out why Yuni cheated.
But I think it's better to write about it later after the wave of first impressions about the chapter pass

joined Dec 23, 2018

I was watching in my mind a "movie" about Fuuko, Yuni, and their babies as happy and affectionate family, and Fuuko truly deserves to have it all.
She is in the worst position, after we saw glimpses in family situations of all 3 MCs.
Her mother is awful (no comment, she said enough about herself)

On the family pic, all of them are faceless with visible mouths, only Fuuko has the eyes (and she is standing aside like a stranger)
It tells everything what we have to know about her family and their goals in life. They remind me of caterpillars chewing leaf from the tree called money and they can't get enough, they want more and more.

I'm rooting for Fuuko to find happiness with Yuni and I wish them lots of babies and lots of love.

About Yuni. Mother did not give the blessing for her relationship with Nanase.
And it's good that it happened before she saw Nanase.
Because THIS is the moment TA-TA-TA-TAAAAA:
-Mother's face looks very similar like face of Nanase!

It could be coincidence if there's not another similarity:
-Mother was always busy and Yuni waited for her to come home.

Sounds familiar?
I'm curious if someone noticed same things as me, or have any thoughts about what I said?

last edited at Feb 19, 2024 8:38PM

joined Dec 23, 2018

I'm simply happy for the existence of this chapter

How to Draw an Ellipse 19 Feb 12:41
joined Dec 23, 2018

Are you telling me discreetly that Juha and Yungae sharing same surname isn't just coincidence? (Yeah, I noticed this "small" detail, he he)
Hm. I think that Juha mentioned something about her family on the birthday party, something very vague like "having but not having them" (she was talking with the bio daughter of Miyeon about family relations)

So, now I see that Juha and Youngae could be cousins and I understood your subtle hints.
I can see from where it's coming. And don't worry, you did not spoil it to me. I would not understand your words if I did not already notice this same surname detail.

About Miyeon and Minsung's relationship, I think there is something what we don't know (yet).
I think now that Miyeon decided (consciously or subconsciously) to have biological daughter that she can separate clearly her motherly feelings and feel what she felt for Minsung without being internally confused.
I'm not saying that she was attracted to the child-Minsung.
But there IS something in their connection what we call sick.
I'm not sure what it is really, but I hope it will be revealed to us that we can understand.

How to Draw an Ellipse 18 Feb 20:04
joined Dec 23, 2018

I did not read raws, I don't speak Korean.
But if you ask because it is about Juha and Youngae, obviously I already saw it coming and if you wish to confirm it won't be a spoiler to me (just don't give me a details or reveal too much).
If those questions are about future events I would not know how to answer them, anyway. So, you decide how much I would be able to follow your comment in this moment.

joined Dec 23, 2018

Next episode - boss battle: Manager vs Misa
Weapons: scourges, snakes' tongues

Battlefield: Io's body.

You added depth to my words.
And now my imagination is running wild!
(thinking about unlocked items and...the outcomes) he he

joined Dec 23, 2018

Next episode - boss battle: Manager vs Misa
Weapons: scourges, snakes' tongues

How to Draw an Ellipse 17 Feb 14:58
joined Dec 23, 2018

Thank you. I'll keep participate in this discussion, of course.
And I would like too, if more people join us.

You are right, the story indeed is exceptionally well-written.
Imagine how excellent was build-up when we all were caught speechless after 90 chapters!!! (and it was nothing out of the plot-line! It was coming so slowly and so subtle but we were caught anyway, ha ha)

I'm joining you for telling people "go for it" (if someone is intrigued by frightened with tags)
The story is not typical dark story (you already described it very well, in your comment above). And does not have explicit content. It's actually good balance with heavy-hitting tags, as you called that combo.

It's worth reading just for Juha (author said Juha is the only character there with superpowers and she is her own dream girl type. If you can remember it, it was some extra page (like "ID cards" of characters) and it was interesting and funny.
People could be tricked at first glance thinking she is typical "idiot" character. She's not at all.
I would like to see her and Youngae together (maybe not as the endgame, but now, considering Youngae's situation, someone like Juha would be good for her. Maybe not immediately, but in next 5-10 chapters from now?)
Do you have some thoughts about it? (we both agreed that there was some flirting and chemistry between them, so I'm interested would you agree or disagree with me in this case)

Even if you did not make the pic of Minsung pirate your description was enough for me to imagine it and made me laugh.

And, I also think that I should reread all again. Now we have expanded perspective and maybe there were some clues which we did not notice at first, so, rereading soon is my next task, he he

How to Draw an Ellipse 16 Feb 17:25
joined Dec 23, 2018

I think Minsung is vengeful character. She likes to listen heavy metal, and it could be the indicator that she has a lot suppressed aggression in her. Losing parents at young age, being abused, having a powerful Youngae as her rival, etc.
It all can cause a lot of smoldering rage under the surface.

I see all of this as power-play between her and Youngae, and it started a long time ago.
Ignoring the passed out daughter wasn't simple seeking attention from Miyeon. From my perspective Minsung just redirected her frustration toward Youngae to someone weaker. Her true attitude could be "Why you all just don't disappear? I don't care if you disappear!"
And she would have Miyeon for herself.

In that time she wasn't strong enough to fight Youngae.
Now she is strong enough, she takes her woman, she is taking her company (as security and with her hacking skills she can do whatever she wants).

Now, about role of Miyeon in all of this mess.
I think she simply surrendered. From what reasons, maybe it's to early to
say. Maybe she is just tired. Maybe she also feels vengeful toward Youngae for marrying that guy (for public image and for making her goals easier to reach).
Husband is "the puppet king" in this situation, and he is aware of it
(-I hope this answers your question above, why she did marry that guy-)

There IS obsessiveness between Minsung and Miyeon. You noticed it and pointed it clearly.
Maybe Miyeon waited all this time for Minsung to act like she acted, and her: "If you need this, I won't reject you" could be just projection?
I think she was aware that she can't ever make the move, but it's obvious that she thought about it (she did not see Minsung as daughter, but etic stopped her). Then, Minsung acted, and she just surrendered to her without words.

Actually, first who pointed out their mother-daughter relationship was Juha, at the birthday party, and Minsung was like "shut up!"
Before it, I never felt them as mother-daughter.
I think they had a strong connection from the beginning, more than words can express. More than connection Mother-daughter.
I was surprised by the turn of events, but not so shocked.
I hope this explains why I said it's about dormant passion.

What you asked about their ages, I think their gap is something between 10 and 15 years max. Lets say that Miyeon just graduated and started to work. So, she was in first half of her 20's. And Minsung could be about 10-11 years old child in that time. They actually don't have a large age gap. I'd say max 15 years, but I think it's less. Maybe 12-13.

Thanks for opening this discussion. Your insights are very helpful to me for fulfilling some gaps. I hope mine could be helpful to you too.
Of course, you don't have to agree with some of my thoughts (it's only about my impressions, I might be wrong and I don't mind if you confront me and give me different arguments).
If I forgot something I'll add it in other comment.

Btw, I did not use covering spoilers. I think people who did not read would not be interested in this topic, and anyway they wouldn't know what is this all about. We are almost at the 100th chapter now.
And your intro was enough for those who did not read but might be interested to start reading.
If there is a problem with not using covers for spoilers, I'll change.

last edited at Feb 16, 2024 5:39PM

How to Draw an Ellipse 16 Feb 10:41
joined Dec 23, 2018

You are, of course, correct. But I think that if you are adopted at a young age (7) and during most of your life you call someone mother, then it is incest. What else can we call it?

Wow, I did not think about that! When you present it like this, as the fact, of course you are right!
We can agree that it IS incest, even if I think that Minsung never felt or saw Miyeon as the mother figure.
And, now when the cards are open, neglecting Miyeon's passed out biological daughter (for me) was more than rivalry between daughters.
What do you think about it?

I was left speechless during the last chapters. They were really trying to inflict the maximum amount of emotional and psychological damage on Youngae. How can she possibly go on and live her life when she was just told by Miyeon, whom she considers her soulmate, and whom she has a child with, that she will now be in a relationship with her adopted kid. That you raised together. And she even compared their relationships. I have never felt this amount of tension before while reading a story. I do not quite understand why they hate Youngae so much.

I started to like Youngae when Juha met her for the first time, eye to eye.
Juha was impressed by her personality and her beauty, and I was like:
"If Juha admires her, there must be something great about this woman!"
Before it I was indifferent to Youngae, but I never hated her.
Then I started to pay more attention to her and I think Juha's impression was spot on.
Maybe people hate her because she is rich heiress, giving to everyone "a spoiled child" vibes who was born with silver spoon and has it all.
But this is exactly what troubles Youngae, she wants to get all what belongs to her by birthright by her own merit. She is really something.

Also, on the birthday party at Miyeon's house, I noticed some flirting energy between her and Juha. It was so subtle, but I think there is some charge, some sparcle between them. I feel more attraction than between Juha and Minsung, or Youngae and Miyeon. Do you have the same impression or it's only me?

Juha is just the best. But I really wonder how she will take the news. She was used, and now she will be thrown away by her girlfriend of many years. Because Minsung is going to be in a relationship with her mother. The entire thing is so freaking twisted.

I'm currently on chapter 97, and there is a cliffhanger. I won't say anything in a case if you are still not there.

Do you have any thoughts about what is going on in the heads of Minsung and Miyeon?

I think Miyeon's words: "I lacked both the words and rationale to refuse her" , are describing what is going in their heads.
I think they both jumped in fire of passion, leaving all reason and logic aside.
Partly I answered your question about Minsung and her feelings, above in this comment. This is the moment when she finally acted up on her long lasting feelings.
The wick was long, and there's a lot fuel. Many other people will be caught or burnt in flames of that fire. Passion IS fire.
What are your thoughts about what is happening in their minds?

How to Draw an Ellipse 15 Feb 20:38
joined Dec 23, 2018

Yeah, recent chapters are insane. You are absolutely right about those "hints", and even with those hints, what happened was like a punch to readers.
Subtle preparation for that punch did not lessen the effect when it happened. It left me speechless, and I realized that I actually sensed it coming but was afraid to think in that direction, deeply suppressing those thoughts. Like, "no way that could happen, don't even think about it!" And then it happened, ha ha

Juha should become a legend. One of my favorite characters ever.

To correct you a little bit, about your hard-hitting tag list;
I would not call it incest, it's pseudo-incest actually.

joined Dec 23, 2018

I admire how she acted on the press conference, and the way how she revealed her long lasting and steady love for Nan Zhi.
She's a real queen!

joined Dec 23, 2018

I'll bet this manga will never go into the hard question of sex, because it's NOT what it's about. It's about a triangle, how to break it and how the characters will handle it. Also, supernatural.

Yeah, I know it and I agree with you. I said that I'm intentionally using sex-analogies to show how harsh is when some emotionally unprepared character (a child) is forcefully pushed (by others or by circumstances) into adulthood (other used fights with orcas analogies, etc.)

Other analogy (talking about how majority of us here, including me, would not mind development of the story in "that" direction) served to cleanse myself of false puritanism by asking the initial question.
I really did not want to sound like some "Saint-Judgement", or hypocrite.
Making a doujin really wasn't my intention for my choice of wording in my previous comment.

Anyway, I was talking about hypothetical but very possible situations (in manga or reality, it does not matter), manga itself opens a vast of various possibilities for discussion. With its setting it already criticize society, seriously questioning political system and its valuations, etc.
It's subtle, and maybe not the main idea of the author, but we can't close our eyes or be indifferent to the subjects what manga touches, directly or indirectly.
Questioning sexual maturity of the characters is actually something inescapable (and very desirable) in this situation. And it still is not going against the main plot line of this masterpiece.

We also could be creative in ways how we are commenting.

joined Dec 23, 2018

I have a question for people who see Aya as "on the paper" 21 years old.
Would you approve if Koto and Aya move their relationship to the next level (have sex few chapters from now on?)

Well yeah. No arguments, I just like age gap yuri. Even better if one of the girls is a loli or a teen. Long live Itou Hachi!

Your reasons are different, it's about your personal preference.
We are talking here about 14 years old girl who would not be protected by the law if she becomes a prey of some (hypothetical) sexual predator, just because on some PAPER is written that she is 21 years old.
And many commenters here expressed how she should be ready to take responsibilities of an adult and "grow fast".
If it is like they say, Aya should act as an adult in sexual way as well.
And nobody could judge, because she is 21 yo on the paper.

Eventual consensual sex between Aya and Koto could happen, logically. But question is how much Aya is emotionally prepared for it at this point of the story.

I just wanted to make a parallel (asking my question) telling that forcing an emotionally unprepared child into adulthood is same as forcing them to have sex.
We can't separate it and tell: "Go find a job, work, stop being crybaby, be responsible as an adult, etc.", and on the other side tell to the same person:
"You, can't have sex, you're still a child!"

Well, decide what it is. If there's discordance, it's hypocrisy.

Let's talk openly here, we all (or majority) here would like to see Aya having sex (with Koto, or some other girl). It's normal.
I'm only pointing out that we have two streams in this discussion by indicators; one stream who would push it to happen forcefully without caring too much about emotional state of the character in question (Aya in this case),
and the second stream who cares about emotional state of the character in question, having an understanding and patience for their emotional development and preparation for "the act".
That's reality of life.
And I'm intentionally using those sexual acts analogies, it's easier to see clearly and understand situation about Aya better.

last edited at Feb 15, 2024 1:47AM

joined Dec 23, 2018

I have a question for people who see Aya as "on the paper" 21 years old.
Would you approve if Koto and Aya move their relationship to the next level (have sex few chapters from now on?)

Be brave and express your thoughts (personally I won't judge, I'm just curious to see the arguments, pro or con)

last edited at Feb 14, 2024 8:46PM

joined Dec 23, 2018

Aya needs to stop feeling sorry for herself and look reality in the face. Nobody gives a damn about her timeslip sob story because it sounds like chūnibyō delusions. She's an official adult now, she has to deal with the responsibilities of adult life.

Are you from ancient Sparta? what a nonsense you talk about?
We are talking here about yesterday 14 years old child who was told that she is from today 21 years old, and it happened literally in just one day for her.
What do you expect? What responsibility of an adult a 14 yo child has to deal? Adults also need a period of adaptation in cases of changed circumstances, how could you expect of 14 yo child to "fast grow up"?
She, by herself said "other kid my age", so she does not get that she is 21 yo now. She is just a normal 14 yo girl.
You speak like it's her fault what is happening to her.

She is not deluded or self-pitiful. She gives her best to fit, but world rejects her (a hole in education between her real age and her "new" age)

I did not see such cruelty and mercilessness for a long time.
I regret seeing your words!