schuyguy posted:

And why do you care so much even if other people don't find cheating as reprehensible as you seem to?

Well considering that cheating always requires one person to be kept out of the loop it's pretty easy to find it reprehensible. How do you think both of their girlfriends would feel when/if they found out they were getting cheated on? It's called empathy.

The reason people find cheating so abhorrent is specifically because it completely disregards the wishes of one or more parties. My view is that if your relationship is so far gone you're cheating then you need to end it out of respect for the person you're cheating on to begin with. Otherwise you're (not you in particular on the off chance it's not clear) just a shitty self-centered person who has no regard for others.

Not to mention Azusa is practically your average girl-who-thinks-she's-justified-for-cheating-because-it's-arousing type who you'd see in a Kodama Naoko work.

I think you're misreading most Kodama Naoko works. Her characters who cheat and betray their partners are generally filled with a deep sense of self-loathing. They know what they do is bad, but they are compelled to do it nonetheless. They're soap operas with super melodramatic characters torn by their overpowering emotions.

Azusa in this story is hard to analyze, since we don't see much. I'd say there are two possibilities:
A) She is exactly how she appears on the surface. She likes the sex she has with Midori, she enjoys the thrill of cheating, and she doesn't worry about it or feel bad at all.
B) She too feels a deep sense of guilt. When Midori asks her out, she pushes her away in the cruelest way possible, feeling remorse for the lover she is betraying. After all, Midori asks her literally right as Azusa gets off the phone from lying to her girlfriend.

Two things cause me to believe B is more likely than A. First is Azusa's face. She has that awful fake smile, but it slips off right before she refuses Midori, and again right as Midori says "good bye" for good at the end. Second is that she stops walking at the same time Midori does. Why would she do that? If her only interest in Midori is that she likes the sex, then is her sheer lust causing her to stop in her tracks at the thought of never being able to have that glorious cheating sex with her again? I don't think that makes sense. There must be a deeper emotional drive. It is ambiguous enough to go either way, but I prefer to believe that the characters are complex, real people, not that one of them is a Hollywood psychopath.

Azusa in this story is hard to analyze, since we don't see much. I'd say there are two possibilities:
A) She is exactly how she appears on the surface. She likes the sex she has with Midori, she enjoys the thrill of cheating, and she doesn't worry about it or feel bad at all.
B) She too feels a deep sense of guilt. When Midori asks her out, she pushes her away in the cruelest way possible, feeling remorse for the lover she is betraying. After all, Midori asks her literally right as Azusa gets off the phone from lying to her girlfriend.

Two things cause me to believe B is more likely than A. First is Azusa's face. She has that awful fake smile, but it slips off right before she refuses Midori, and again right as Midori says "good bye" for good at the end. Second is that she stops walking at the same time Midori does. Why would she do that? If her only interest in Midori is that she likes the sex, then is her sheer lust causing her to stop in her tracks at the thought of never being able to have that glorious cheating sex with her again? I don't think that makes sense. There must be a deeper emotional drive. It is ambiguous enough to go either way, but I prefer to believe that the characters are complex, real people, not that one of them is a Hollywood psychopath.

I think it's without a doubt, A, I've read this Oneshot about several times and I don't see Azusa having any guilt whatsoever. Hell, after Midori slaps her for saying "Cheating is why the sex is so hot" she just brushes it off and fails to take a hint, she doesn't seem to have any idea how angry she made Midori with that comment. Throughout the whole doujin Azusa comes off as a sadistic person who mainly get's arousal from cheating on her spouse, nothing more to her character.

last edited at Nov 25, 2017 7:05PM

Hell, after Midori slaps her for saying "Cheating is why the sex is so hot" she just brushes it off and fails to take a hint, she doesn't seem to have any idea how angry she made Midori with that comment.

I read that as her saying that in order to make Midori angry. When Midori asked her to date, she looks conflicted for a second, and then says the thing that is guaranteed to make Midori most upset. Either she is unbelievably dense, or that was calculated.

Hell, after Midori slaps her for saying "Cheating is why the sex is so hot" she just brushes it off and fails to take a hint, she doesn't seem to have any idea how angry she made Midori with that comment.

I read that as her saying that in order to make Midori angry. When Midori asked her to date, she looks conflicted for a second, and then says the thing that is guaranteed to make Midori most upset. Either she is unbelievably dense, or that was calculated.

Doesn't really seem like something a person would do if they were feeling guilty about cheating on their lover. I mean, If that's the case then it not only proves that she gets enjoyment out of cheating, but get's enjoyment out of manipulating others emotionally.

last edited at Nov 25, 2017 7:18PM

doujin

It's a one-shot from Yuri-Hime.

I don't think the translation quite gets across a key line: Midori basically says she found herself agreeing with/convinced by Azusa's comment. That's what her look of horror before the slap was about.

last edited at Nov 25, 2017 7:25PM

My impression matches the A version, though I do not agree that makes her a Hollywood psychopath. It could be B, though, there is just enough ambiguity for it to go either way, you are correct. I guess it falls on what the preferences of individual readers are when it comes to it.

As for looking conflicted when asked to date Midori, I did not see it that way. She seems too much at ease with the situation, both before and after, for me to read it like that. My take was that it was pity, probably, for Midori, who so hopelessly misread their relationship.
I do agree with one of the previous posters who said they think Azusa would do this only with Midori, rather than being a cheater in general. That impression is not based on much evidence, I admit, other than the very last panel, where both of them stop, indicating that, perhaps, even just as a cheating partner, Midori is somehow special to Azusa too.

I guess it's not necessarily black or white, but I do think that Azusa is conflicted, to some degree, about her behavior.

I don't think the translation quite gets across a key line: Midori basically says she found herself agreeing with/convinced by Azusa's comment. That's what her look of horror before the slap was about.

I think that message was conveyed rather well, actually. It was my first impression upon seeing her face there. It was an awesome realisation, and it makes her resolve afterwards, and almost immediate crumbling of it, feel all the more real.

last edited at Nov 25, 2017 7:51PM

It's like people are complaining nudity in porn. Sure nudity is bad, for children that is.

Thing is, we know absolutely nothing at all about the off-screen relationships these women have with their respective girlfriends.

Maybe Azusa's girlfriend cheats on her, too. Maybe Midori's relationship is essentially over already and she just hasn't pulled the trigger yet (she was pretty quick to say "Let's dump our girlfriends and start dating each other" after all). Maybe Azusa really does love her girlfriend and they have a fantastic relationship but she can't resist the thrill of infidelity. Maybe her girlfriend knows and puts up with it.

There are so many possibilities of what could be taking place off-screen in these relationships, and the text of the comic itself gives absolutely no hints about it whatsoever. So casting the whole thing as "horrible people engaged in betrayal" is pretty reductive.

And that's not even getting into the whole "people who cheat are automatically horrible people" bit. In my experience, that's not necessarily true. People are complicated and messy, and normal everyday people cheat all the time. Sometimes they feel regret and remorse, sometimes they don't. Doesn't make them horrible. Just flawed.

For me, I find the story intriguing because of the central conceit: That there is such a powerful chemistry between these two women that they can't help themselves. That's an interesting theme to explore, and this story does it well.

Cheating/NTR doujins always hit the most views. Admit it guys, you like this.

last edited at Nov 26, 2017 12:40AM

Cheating/NTR doujins always hit the most views. Admit it guys, you like this.

I think the real reason is:
- Someone read it, pissed off and write a comment
- Someone else disagree, saying "it's good because it's realistic"
- Disagree with the disagree

And on and on....

Well, I don't like either of these people.

You are not expected to.

this was sooooooo good i love it when relationships are treated as messy and weird and like real life fuck shit for once

Fix'd it for ya...

Gosh, after 52 years I've suddenly learned that all this time I wasn't living in real life!

i knew u old but didnt expect that old

Refreshing story with great art, sequel of their third time please!

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins posted:

Except no one did that. People here seem divided between those who liked the characters and the story, those who liked the story but disliked the characters, and those who just flat out disliked the whole thing. But even amongst people who are in the first category, such as myself, no one was defending cheating, much less treated it as something to be encouraged. You are seeing things that are just not present.

People shitting on people who are saying cheating is a shitty thing to do and that both these characters are extremely shitty people for doing it suggests otherwise. If that's not what they're meaning to do then they should be more careful trying to get their point across.

False dichotomy.

this is more than NTR... i dont like it. :( yuri hime's quality is going down?

i dont know why yall are analyzing this as if theres some deeper meaning here. the two love the sex because the cheating excites them.

Well, that story was a punch in the balls I could have avoided....

This was a fairly interesting idea. I do agree cheating can be hot, but regularly doing for the sake of cheating is just being selfish and unfair to the official partner. If there's a sequel, they'd better be an actual couple.

This has a sequel right ? I mean then last panel they stopped walking

Ok looking back at it..It's pretty hot lol

Ok...

Lmao fucking cheating sympathizers. Absolute scum of the earth.

This was pretty well-done. It's a cold, dispassionate look at terrible people, one of whom tries not to think about the consequences of her actions, and another who actively glories in them. The lack of clear moralizing or overt drama makes for a very unique experience, because it feels as if every judgment you could ever make has already been made by the characters, and the end response on both theirs and our part is to just shrug and accept this dismal state of affairs, mining as much enjoyment from it as possible. They're not victims and they're not oppressors- simply acquaintances-in-sin drifting through a cold and careless city, dispensing with emotion and leaving pleasure up to coincidence.

The biggest obstacle to writing a story about cheating is the threat of audiences flat-out rejecting the story on the basis of the premise, or quitting because they realize that there won't be a neat conclusion, but the hazy, moody ambiguity of this story neatly circumvents all those emotional brambles. Rather than some shocking moment of revelation, like walking into a room to find your girlfriend sleeping with someone else, it dwells far more on the mixed, grim sense of detachment in dingy hotel rooms, knowing that you've gotten away with this before and shall do so again, and wondering where you'll go from here. Infidelity is thus converted to a moral dilemma, every bit as inevitable as the trolley trundling down the track in a philosophical experiment. The only choice that's left is whether or not to pull the lever, because even if you walk away, the pressure that's built up for so long won't disappear.