I'd point out that I for one interpret the Romance tag very differently than Hoot - in my books that just indicates romantic relationships of whatever character being a major theme. And the vagaries of unrequired feelings are certainly one of the oldest themes in that genre...

last edited at Dec 26, 2018 6:21AM

This last page though. The middle panel is painfully relatable. Gave me flashbacks for pity's sake

Finally, she realized that she was actually an adult all along. God damn it took her long enough to figure that out.
I think that's one of the biggest problems with age gap stories (besides the obvious immoral and illegal stuff) is that it requires the older character to not act like an adult. Or, at least, not like a proper one.

In any case, it is nice to see some actual proper development with the story. I just hope they don't turn around and spend the next chapter focusing on one of the side characters yet again.

last edited at Dec 26, 2018 11:22AM

It's stories like this that make me so touch and go with aaaaaaangst tag stories. Most of them are just angst for the sake of angst, but then you get something like this where its good and relatable and the problem might not be solved with the characters just sitting down and talking for a few seconds. I love/hate you aaaaaaanst stories!

last edited at Dec 26, 2018 5:26PM

Wait. Why does everyone seem to assume Kaoru isn't attracted to Uta?

matsuri_wins posted:

Wait. Why does everyone seem to assume Kaoru isn't attracted to Uta?

Because she chased her current husband for a decade? Even if she is bi, there is no sign she currently has any attraction to Uta. Especially after completely ignoring her confession and delaying addressing it as long as humanly possible.

last edited at Dec 26, 2018 6:56PM

Isn't it suggested she chased him to be around Uta in some capacity?
Maybe I'm just a believer...

I mean, there are only 3 ways this story can go now:

1. Kaoru tells Uta "sorry I don't like you back", the manga ends there. Brave ending but also a tremendous waste of time. I suppose Yuri Hime can afford to risk it since they have Citrus+ to keep boosting sales up...
2. Reiichi, an earthquake or some other Deus Ex Machina prevents them from talking. In that case, I will have to drop this series, it's too stupid.
3. Kaoru thinks she is going to tell Uta "sorry I don't like you back", but they end up making out instead out of some subconscious force on her part lol. The drama continues xD

last edited at Dec 26, 2018 9:03PM

I'd point out that I for one interpret the Romance tag very differently than Hoot - in my books that just indicates romantic relationships of whatever character being a major theme. And the vagaries of unrequired feelings are certainly one of the oldest themes in that genre...

Well, I’ll let you in on a little secret: for me, one girl/woman “likes” another girl/woman in a special “more than just friends” way?—Yuri.

And the definition of “more than just friends”?—situational.

Don’t tell anyone, though—it’ll just cause trouble.

matsuri_wins posted:

Isn't it suggested she chased him to be around Uta in some capacity?

I don't think that was the case. And I already went into details why chasing him for a decade to marry him, just so she can be close to Uta, instead, you know, just chasing Uta, makes no sense. Well it was more people suggesting he married Kaoru, so she can realize she likes Uta and he intentionally plays a bad husband part, so she will go to her, which is even more retarded than first option.

Ooh this is a good update, for once the friend advice is actually decent and actually pushes the story in the right direction! I'm talking about the kaoru friend though, not Uta's boooring friend conversation

They better talk and not somehow get distracted with something dumb and irrelevant, I want to see the awkward chat!!

last edited at Dec 27, 2018 2:49AM

matsuri_wins posted:

Isn't it suggested she chased him to be around Uta in some capacity?

I don't think that was the case. And I already went into details why chasing him for a decade to marry him, just so she can be close to Uta, instead, you know, just chasing Uta, makes no sense. Well it was more people suggesting he married Kaoru, so she can realize she likes Uta and he intentionally plays a bad husband part, so she will go to her, which is even more retarded than first option.

Well your thinking about this is too black and white in my opinion...it's entirely possible Kaoru attached to Reiichi and Uta as family, and sure she is attracted to Reiichi, but part of her insistence to be around him despite rejections is because she didn't want to have this feeling of being apart from him. And maybe even more so, from Uta, though initially out of sisterly feelings. Now Uta is a teen, and given that she now knows the girl has feelings for her, it might make Kaoru see her in another way (or maybe she already does but is not conscious of it).

I don't think we can overlook the moments in the series where Kaoru seemed to consider Uta and Reiichi interchangeable, I think even Reiichi at some point seemed to take notice of that. But it's a difficult situation: if I had attraction feelings for my teenage sister in law, I would be repressing that too.

last edited at Dec 27, 2018 7:32AM

Pretty sure Kaoru and Reiichi had already been married for some time when Uta moved in with them (implied to be in order to get out of a rather bad home situation; just watch how tense Reiichi gets whenever their parents come up...) which obviously makes any notion of the former trying to get at Uta through the latter quite preposterous.
Unless you assume Kaoru is prescient and hence knew in advance Uta would later move into their household, at which point you're firmly in Voodoo Shark territory... :P

Why is that preposterous? Being part of the family to continue being around Reiichi and Uta by proxy (no matter if living together or not) is the best Kaoru could do. Also I don't think it's conscious...like, this isn't even the first time such a thing happens in a story lol == 20 years Utena went so far as to have sex with Anthy's brother Akio while thinking and talking about Anthy during the act. The human mind is fucked up and represses itself ==

I'd say you're doing what in agrarian societies is known as "grasping at straws" tbqh. (The less polite might describe it as straight up delusions instead.) Plus if Kaoru somehow, against all evidence to the contrary in the text, was (more) into the younger sibling she could just... have gone after her instead to begin with you know? Doubly so as Rei-niisan wasn't exactly playing easy to get back there if memory serves?

Not to mention it is very shitty thing to do to other person.

Why is that preposterous? Being part of the family to continue being around Reiichi and Uta by proxy (no matter if living together or not) is the best Kaoru could do. Also I don't think it's conscious...like, this isn't even the first time such a thing happens in a story lol == 20 years Utena went so far as to have sex with Anthy's brother Akio while thinking and talking about Anthy during the act. The human mind is fucked up and represses itself ==

Ooo good point...yeah that was...Utena was... I think I was too young to understand it.

And I can't remember, and I don't want to reread this manga, so I have two questions:

1. Who is Konatsu and when/what circumstances did she enter the story? How old is she?

2. Did we ever find out if Reiichi is cheating on Kaoru? Like...is that just a forgotten plot point now?

Also why can't Uta just live with Kuroe? Guess that's three, but meh... that answer doesn't really matter.

last edited at Dec 27, 2018 2:23PM

^
1
Konatsu was the (at the time) apparent-sex-addict classmate of Kuroe who was introduced in Chapter 3, and who has appeared as an occasional hanger-on/uninvited guest/miscellaneous-advice person until her recent focus chapter.

2
Not definitively, no. But if he’s not cheating, he’s doing an excellent job of looking like he is.

3
She may yet—I thought that’s what she was going to do when the issue of leaving her present situation came up.

The decision to live with her mother is yet another one of those inexplicable plot points that substitute for actual characterization in this series.

last edited at Dec 27, 2018 2:44PM

@Blastaar thank you for the answers.

Plus if Kaoru somehow, against all evidence to the contrary in the text, was (more) into the younger sibling she could just... have gone after her instead to begin with you know? Doubly so as Rei-niisan wasn't exactly playing easy to get back there if memory serves?

Again this is just black and white thinking on your part. You seem to think that:

1. A character can only like one person at a time
2. If they like a person they must act on it
3. If they like a person now, they must have always liked them
4. If they like a person, they MUST be fully aware of it

When in fact, if Kaoru is attracted to Uta that must necessarily be a recent development, a branching out from her deep sisterly emotions towards her, just like she started liking Reiichi after they were best childhood friends. Also, when she started being into Reiichi, Uta was just a child! Yet now Kaoru acts strangely towards Uta in my opinion, at the very least in a way that readers could consider ambiguous. I mean, how do you explain her treating Reiichi and Uta as kind of interchangeable emotionally? Reiichi notices this, Uta herself notices this, and I think also Kaoru's friends.

last edited at Dec 28, 2018 10:57AM

I love to watch Dynasty readers assiduously doing the work that the author should have been doing for us all along.

After all, the answers to the questions, "What do these people feel and what makes them feel that way?" often are included in romance stories rather than needing to be supplied by the readers.

Next chapter should answer whatever matsuri_wins assumptions are true or not (assuming they will actually fucking talk), but based on what we got so far, I can't help but feel it is a clear example of filling in the gaps. Author left too many holes in story, so filling them with what you want is very easy.

(assuming they will actually fucking talk)

Are you willing to bet the house on that happening?

At the end of Chapter 14, surely Chapter 15 would pick up by confirming that Uta actually confessed, right?

But no, it didn't.

And the end of Chapter 16 tells us that Chapter 17 would certainly open with a confrontation with Uta's returning mother, right?

But actually, Chapter 17 began with a flashback confirming--wait for it--that Uta actually confessed!

So how confident are you that the next chapter picks up with Uta and Kaoru having an actual candid talk about the main issue, one that readers see right then and there?

Or is the smart money on, "Never mind--it's nothing"?

Also

matsuri_wins posted:

1. A character can only like one person at a time

Sorry, but liking more than 1 person at the time is very uncommon in real world, yet alone in manga, where author usually follows very well established tropes and scenarios. And especially considering what we got so far, I'm very skeptical this author is going for some very unexpected subversion and twist with typical formula.

1. If they like a person they must act on it

Well, she liked Reiichi and acted on it, for 10 years, despite being constantly rejected. I have really hard time believing she wouldn't do the same or at least do something, if she was aware of having any feelings for Uta. Kaoru is, or at least was, very assertive in her pursue of love.

1. If they like a person now, they must have always liked them

We have no clue when or if at all, she likes Uta. And again, it assumes Kaoru at some point, consciously or not, started to like Uta while being in middle of decade long pursue of her current husband. It really takes some suspension of disbelieve, to think she could even unconsciously develop feelings for Uta during actively trying to marry someone else. I actually would be more willing to believe it if it was a real life story, since real life is often way crazier and random than people think, but in manga, nobody is going to come up with something like that.

1. If they like a person, they MUST be fully aware of it

Sure, she might like Uta subconsciously at some level, but your entire assumptions hinges on way too many unknowns. When exactly she started to notice Uta? When her feelings actually become those of love? If she is aware of those feelings would she actually want to act on them? You say we have all of those assumptions about love and wrongly base our understanding of the story on them, when all you do is just pick assumptions that you like more, without even trying to fit them anywhere into story. Except for that 1 line about Reiichi and Uta being interchangeable, nothing else support your assumptions. You gave no evidence from manga showing Kaoru being subconsciously drawn to Uta. You didn't even try explaining how your supposedly totally realistic time line of Kaoru falling for Uta works. You even contradicted yourself few times. First saying only reason she pursued Reiichi was to become part of Uta's family and then saying she wanted to be part of Reiichi family and in process become close to Uta, to then change she wanted to be part of Reiichi and Uta family, but more for Uta. You even admitted 10 years ago Uta was just a child, but now that she is teenager Kaoru is obviously attracted to her? How does that work? We have no clue how many interactions Kaoru had with Uta through those 10 years and how close they really were, yet that somehow proves she totally loves her subconsciously? Also you based all those scenarios on Utena where she fucked a guy as a replacement for girl, but she was 100% aware of that. How does that support idea someone who loves someone subconsciously would go out of their way to do that? You constantly switch between her not knowing it consciously and her totally acting on it because she is aware of it.

You said learning Uta has feelings for her might change her perception of her, yet that is not what happened at all. She actively ignored her confession, kept denying it until it wasn't humanely possible anymore and only decided to address it after her friend told her to get her shit together. If she was aware of her feelings for Uta, she would do something immediately or at least we would be shown her being torn over it. We don't, she pretends it never happened. If she wasn't aware of her feelings, she would at least start to think back and maybe notice she always felt something more to her, it could be trigger for her to realize it. If she fallen for her subconsciously, she couldn't be too much against idea of Uta liking her. Yet again, she pretends it didn't happen and acts as if it was only a burden that is better off being forgotten. I'm failing to see how it is a behavior of someone who was repressing their feelings for X years or how long even you actually expect her to have this subconscious crush. You don't really give any evidence supporting it in the story expect for, she thinks Uta and Reiichi are interchangeable and her lack of thoughts and actions, which can be explained by her not being aware of it. Sorry, but to me it just sounds like wishful thinking that this story will have a yuri ending. And the sad part is, by all means, it shouldn't, but I can bet author (or editorial stuff) will come up with some bs to actually make it happen.

Blastaar posted:

But actually, Chapter 17 began with a flashback confirming--wait for it--that Uta actually confessed!

Calling it a flashback is way too generous. It was 1 panel with her inner thoughts saying it happened.

last edited at Dec 28, 2018 12:54PM

Blastaar posted:

But actually, Chapter 17 began with a flashback confirming--wait for it--that Uta actually confessed!

Calling it a flashback is way too generous. It was 1 panel with her inner thoughts saying it happened.

That's me--generous to a fault. lol

Actually, (and stipulating that the "It's always been Kaoru angling for Uta all along" theory is only tenable by ignoring or wishing away the preponderance of the evidence), we know very well that Kaoru has always liked Uta--the question is whether she (to lapse into 8th-grade argot) "LIKE likes" her (i.e., is sexually attracted to Uta and is aware of it at any level).

The early chapters are full of past and recent examples of the exceptionally close "big/little sister" bond between Kaoru and Uta, and of Kaoru's notable acceptance and indeed promotion of a high degree of skinship between them (the "morning hug" business), even leaving aside the "Kaoru has always loved to touch Uta's soft parts" omake. And we've seen as many scenes of Kaoru being emotionally dependent on Uta as of her being the same with her husband.

The problems with any "It's more than a Big Sis relationship on Kaoru's part" speculations at this point are:

a) Kaoru is a profoundly self-unaware idiot.
b) The character development in this series is so erratic that there's no telling where the story might end up.

So while there's no strong indication that there will be a yuri ending between the two of them, there's also no strong indication of much of anything else as an endgame, either. (That is, I can think of a good half-dozen ways the series might conceivably end, but no way to get to any of them that entails good writing.)