Forum › My Unrequited Love discussion

Popcorn
joined Jun 5, 2015

I'll admit I don't really remember most of earlier chapters anymore, but since I lost interest in series, I'm not willing to go and re-read them just to make sure I forgot about something, so I'm just going from memory of what I do remember. Still regardless, the whole "Kaoru loves Uta subconsciously" feels more like excusing bad writing by saying absence of her feelings, proves that she loves her, instead of just author forgetting to actually include it in the story.

last edited at Dec 28, 2018 1:51PM

4bbe1078a9d82bf519de9e5fc56dee60
joined Feb 18, 2018

Also you based all those scenarios on Utena where she fucked a guy as a replacement for girl, but she was 100% aware of that.

Holy crap, was she aware? lmao I watched it long ago so...I thought for 99% of the series she wasn't consciously aware she was attracted to Anthy. Anyway I digress.

In any case, I'm not trying to say My Unrequited Love is well-written because it is not. All I'm saying is that if Kaoru doesn't develop any feelings for Uta, the story is pointless and will hopefully end next chapter. I'm assuming there is a point to the story other than "I had a crush on my sister-in-law and it predictably never went anywhere", so there MUST be a way for Kaoru to be attracted to Uta. I'm just providing potential explanations.

last edited at Dec 28, 2018 9:10PM

Popcorn
joined Jun 5, 2015

matsuri_wins posted:

Also you based all those scenarios on Utena where she fucked a guy as a replacement for girl, but she was 100% aware of that.

Holy crap, was she aware? lmao I watched it long ago so...I thought for 99% of the series she wasn't consciously aware she was attracted to Anthy. Anyway I digress.

Lol I have no clue. I never watched Utena xD From the way you talked about it sounded like she was aware. I mean she talked about Anthy during sex. If not then my bad x3

All I'm saying is that if Kaoru doesn't develop any feelings for Uta, the story is pointless

Em, why? Do all stories have to end up with 2 main characters getting together? Just because it doesn't have a happy ending, it doesn't make the story pointless. In stories like that getting to that ending is often what is the most interesting/entertaining part of the story. Though we already established that part was already seriously fucked up by author's/editorial inability to write/pace manga. And even then, who says that ending has to be sad? Uta could as well end up finding someone else, after being rejected by Kaoru. Also you act as if by virtue of being romance we were promised something, when we have no guarantee them being together is even a end goal author is aiming for. In fact, it is called "My Unrequited Love" for crying out load. Saying story named like that has no right to end without them getting together, is like saying manga called "Happy End" can't have one (ok fine, that one is bad example, but you get my point). It is all on the tin.

I'm assuming there is a point to the story other than "I had a crush on my sister-in-law and it predictably never went anywhere", so there MUST be a way for Kaoru to be attracted to Uta. I'm just providing potential explanations.

Or author might want to write a sad story about someone's unrequited love. Just a thought. Did you never heard about tragedies? Are you telling me they are all pointless? I'm sorry but that way of thinking is definition of wishful thinking.

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

Again, the whole first section of the series is about how Kaoru and Uta connect better with each other than either of them do with Reiichi as husband/brother, AND how they have had a close relationship for a very long time. Uta’s feelings have become sexual in the narrative present, but Kaoru’s have (had) also been inexplicably intense and skinship-py, though she puts it in the context of “family” rather than romance.

Then things just started wandering around, with attention given to everything from the dysfunctional Scooby Gang at the soda shop or whatever the f***k that place is, to cheaty Reiichi, to The Return of Monster Mom, etc., with only the Road Trip Phantom Confession relating to the question of “Why are we supposed to care about any of this shit when the central problem is about a high-school girl being in love with her sister-in-law (for increasingly unfathomable reasons)?”

It’s possible that Kaoru will suddenly have an epiphany about how much Uta means to her and how she has been in denial about her own emotions, and how she’ll have an agonizing personal/moral/ethical decision about where to go from here, a blinding flash of self-realization in which her long-time pursuit of Reiichi and her denial/repression of his probable infidelity and her strangely fraught relationship with Uta all fall into a suddenly discernible pattern like the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle and she’ll be able to move forward, with or without Uta but with a new understanding of herself and what she truly wants out of life.

Y’know, sometimes I crack myself up.

last edited at Dec 28, 2018 9:53PM

Shithead
joined Oct 23, 2018

THAT LADY ON THE PHONE IS RIGHT, KAORU BE AN ADULT and get with your husbands little sister

Dynasty%20avatar
joined Sep 10, 2017

Uh-oh, I get the feeling that the end is near (and not a good one...)

Tumblr_ok9qbbf9zt1vy8fcno2_250
joined Nov 13, 2018

Hm, I wonder why everyone hates this manga? I personally really like it, but I do agree that the latest chapters felt like they were going nowhere in terms of progress, but at least now they will finally talk instead of dragging it out.

I'm guessing a lot of people either wanted Uta and Kaoru to get together already or for it to progress quickly, those types of people probably would have had hell or just quit with "Fluttering Feelings" haha, that one truly frustrated people when it came for progress of the main pairing,

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

^
Maybe you could read the comments and thereby discover that a lot of people don’t “hate” the manga, but think that it has wasted its potential with poorly structured and unfocused storytelling.

That way you wouldn’t have to “guess” what people think about the story and project your own ideas about “progress” onto other readers.

4bbe1078a9d82bf519de9e5fc56dee60
joined Feb 18, 2018

Well "Fluttering Feelings" took so long that the author passed away before the story was completed, so maybe that's why people want things to progress ASAP, the payoff must make up for the suffering or the story just isn't good. I personally would like to see more stories focused on an existing relationship rather than "how so and so got together after a 1000 misunderstandings".

Popcorn
joined Jun 5, 2015

ChippedIce posted:

those types of people probably would have had hell or just quit with "Fluttering Feelings" haha, that one truly frustrated people when it came for progress of the main pairing,

The fact you don't understand that FF problem with "progress" stemmed from artificially dragging it out, rather than it being slow paced, is what is the issue.

matsuri_wins posted:

I personally would like to see more stories focused on an existing relationship rather than "how so and so got together after a 1000 misunderstandings".

That is my issue with most stories. Not that they are slowed paced/progress take time, but that once we finally make progress, the story ends there. Authors are never willing or able to actually explore how it is in the relationship they were building and leading to entire series. It's that idea that getting into relationship is the most interesting part and being in it is just a afterthought. Which in turn hurts stories themselves, because authors make everything to drag them out as long as possible, before they hook up, because hooking up means end of story.

last edited at Dec 30, 2018 7:04AM

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

I personally would like to see more stories focused on an existing relationship rather than "how so and so got together after a 1000 misunderstandings".

That is my issue with most stories. Not that they are slowed paced/progress take time, but that once we finally make progress, the story ends there. Authors are never willing or able to actually explore how it is in the relationship they were building and leading to entire series. It's that idea that getting into relationship is the most interesting part and being in it is just a afterthought. Which in turn hurts stories themselves, because authors make everything to drag them out as long as possible, before they hook up, because hooking up means end of story.

That's pretty much built into the genre, though--"romance" stories end with the getting together (or not, as in tragic romance). Continuations can be slice-of-life, comedy, or drama, but plain romance (I'd say "straight romance," but you see the problem) is so popular and enough serial stories (not necessarily yuri or even manga) have fallen flat once the unresolved sexual tension gets resolved that the cycle becomes self-generating--audiences respond positively to the "getting together" dynamic, so that's what keeps getting produced.

I agree that post-hookup can make for the most interesting stories, but it's easy to see why those are both harder to create and less likely to sell.

Screenshot%20(107)
joined Dec 27, 2014

Fml this is a hard read.... After Kaoru turns her down, Uta best get a new girl or somethin' cause damn she deserves it. If this just ends with a broken hearted Uta and a tiny ass sneak peek towards a new relationship I'm gonna FUCKIGN REEE. My heart can't handle this.
I demand a proper introduction and short development of a new love interest, perhaps even a kiss.

last edited at Dec 30, 2018 6:28PM

4bbe1078a9d82bf519de9e5fc56dee60
joined Feb 18, 2018

I actually made a bet with my gf that Kaoru and Uta will at least have a kiss, while she doesn't think so lol I hope I win

Popcorn
joined Jun 5, 2015

Blastaar posted:

That's pretty much built into the genre, though--"romance" stories end with the getting together (or not, as in tragic romance). Continuations can be slice-of-life, comedy, or drama, but plain romance (I'd say "straight romance," but you see the problem) is so popular and enough serial stories (not necessarily yuri or even manga) have fallen flat once the unresolved sexual tension gets resolved that the cycle becomes self-generating--audiences respond positively to the "getting together" dynamic, so that's what keeps getting produced.

I suppose you have a point. I guess I just read enough of "getting together" part and now I'm more interested in seeing actual couple life. I can still read and understand not every story is meant to keep going after they do, but still when I like a couple and got invested in them I want to actually see at least a bit of their life together.

Cindy%20small%20gs
joined Oct 20, 2017

Sorry, but liking more than 1 person at the time is very uncommon in real world

I don't mean to be rude, but I take issue with this. Do you have a source on this bold claim? The topic of polyamory is controversial and understudied, but that doesn't mean you can dismiss it off out of hand. And that's just the topic of actual relationships - you don't have to be in a relationship to fancy more than one person at the same time, so it would be even more common if you use common sense.

I agree that post-hookup can make for the most interesting stories, but it's easy to see why those are both harder to create and less likely to sell.

In my experience "relationship-romance" is most commonly used as a subplot, or as a central but not sole focus, because that gives the relationship a lot of room to breathe, and allows the creator to get away with creating fewer points of conflict within the relationship, which can prevent the relationship's arc to descend into soap-opera. But yes, it is a shame we don't have more of these, because real relationships are full of ups and downs, and they are not without longing either. They can be just as interesting as the other type of romance.

On the other hand, I think the key feeling that most romance genre works aim to create is the sense of longing/yearning. Creating tension by keeping the characters pining after each other, and releasing it in the climax. It probably lends itself the easiest to the most common types of story structures. So when we talk romance genre, we usually mean "yearning romance".

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

^
Agreed, Dr. Hoot—most romances are a version of quest narrative. :)

Popcorn
joined Jun 5, 2015

Doctor_Hoot posted:

Sorry, but liking more than 1 person at the time is very uncommon in real world

Do you have a source on this bold claim? The topic of polyamory is controversial and understudied, but that doesn't mean you can dismiss it off out of hand. And that's just the topic of actual relationships - you don't have to be in a relationship to fancy more than one person at the same time, so it would be even more common if you use common sense.

Not really. Well I don't have studies or anything, but if we're going with common senses, humanity as a whole? Popular media focus 90% on love. Music, books, movies, TV shows, almost everything is about love or have love in it. And even then, just looking around you. Your family, your friends, your neighbors, your coworkers, famous people. How many of them are in polyamorous relationships? Or expressed loving 2 or more people at the same time and willing to be in relationship with all of them? Not many I can imagine. At no point I tried to say people like that don't exist, but if we're going by what is the most common thing to happen, then majority of people expect relationship to happen between 2 people. Whatever it make sense or is practical, idea of finding the one love and spending entire life with them is the most ingrained one and held as base line. Even if you like 2 people, you're expected to choose only 1 and focus on them. It is presented so strong in our culture, saying it isn't in human nature is being dishonest. And all of this is beside the point anyway.

What I was referring to was, that whatever or not something like what matsuri_wins was suggesting was possible in real life, didn't matter. Fiction is nowhere near as flexible as real life most of the time. People write stories to appeal to as many people as possible and follow things that are common and expected. And sadly what is most common and expected in romance genre is that only 2 characters will get together. Trying to write story about someone pursuing 2 people at once, conscious or not, is just not something you normally write. You can twist a formula for sure, but I have hard time believing any editor would see it as good idea. They are trying to make money, not write good stories after all. The point is it being just straight romance (or angst) makes more sense narratively, when you try to sell a book. As I said, if it was real life, I would be actually be more inclined to believe it, because real live stories are way more surprising than anything fiction can ever come up with. It's ironic that fiction is trying to imitate real life, but at the same time is much more predictable and structured than real life ever is. Of course author can still surprise me and prove me wrong, but considering fiction as a whole, I think they will rather stick to what was already proved to be safe bet.

The fact sentence "They are trying to make money, not write good stories after all." is true and I had to write it, made me feel so sad

last edited at Jan 5, 2019 8:23AM

joined Jul 26, 2016

Not really. Well I don't have studies or anything, but if we're going with common senses, --

...and this basically renders the entire rest of the post so much TL;DR because as it happens "common senses" - as in, the common layman perception based on pure anecdote rather than any systematic and rigorous methodology - have preciously little evidence value and only too often are plain wrong.

Popcorn
joined Jun 5, 2015

random posted:

Not really. Well I don't have studies or anything, but if we're going with common senses, --

...and this basically renders the entire rest of the post so much TL;DR because as it happens "common senses" - as in, the common layman perception based on pure anecdote rather than any systematic and rigorous methodology - have preciously little evidence value and only too often are plain wrong.

Tell it to Doctor_Hoot then who disagreed with me using the powerful evidence of common sense themselves:

The topic of polyamory is controversial and understudied, but that doesn't mean you can dismiss it off out of hand. And that's just the topic of actual relationships - you don't have to be in a relationship to fancy more than one person at the same time, so it would be even more common if you use common sense.

It's true I didn't really have any evidence to support my claim except for what I said, but that pretty much goes to Doctor_Hoot as well, so if you want to be ass to someone, dismiss their post not mine. I only answered them on what base I was making my assumption. Also you clearly didn't even bother reading entire thing, because then I proceed to explain why I don't even need any studies when talking about manga, because fiction uses different rules.

joined Jul 26, 2016

random posted:

Not really. Well I don't have studies or anything, but if we're going with common senses, --

...and this basically renders the entire rest of the post so much TL;DR because as it happens "common senses" - as in, the common layman perception based on pure anecdote rather than any systematic and rigorous methodology - have preciously little evidence value and only too often are plain wrong.

Tell it to Doctor_Hoot then who disagreed with me using the powerful evidence of common sense themselves:

The topic of polyamory is controversial and understudied, but that doesn't mean you can dismiss it off out of hand. And that's just the topic of actual relationships - you don't have to be in a relationship to fancy more than one person at the same time, so it would be even more common if you use common sense.

It's true I didn't really have any evidence to support my claim except for what I said, but that pretty much goes to Doctor_Hoot as well, so if you want to be ass to someone, dismiss their post not mine. I only answered them on what base I was making my assumption. Also you clearly didn't even bother reading entire thing, because then I proceed to explain why I don't even need any studies when talking about manga, because fiction uses different rules.

He's using the term "common sense" in the context of reasoning though, not trying to employ it as a basis for overarching clams about large-scale human behaviour. His argument there is certainly valid enough so, yeah.

You're quite correct that I didn't read the whole thing. When a lenghty post trying to argue a point without any line breaks begins with admitting being based on a glaring fallacy I'm somewhat inclined to just not bother.

last edited at Jan 5, 2019 8:15AM

Popcorn
joined Jun 5, 2015

random posted:

You're quite correct that I didn't read the whole thing. When a lenghty post trying to argue a point without any line breaks begins with admitting being based on a glaring fallacy I'm somewhat inclined to just not bother.

Good. I can now ignore your future posts with clear conscious.

4bbe1078a9d82bf519de9e5fc56dee60
joined Feb 18, 2018

Not really. Well I don't have studies or anything, but if we're going with common senses, humanity as a whole? Popular media focus 90% on love. Music, books, movies, TV shows, almost everything is about love or have love in it. And even then, just looking around you. Your family, your friends, your neighbors, your coworkers, famous people. How many of them are in polyamorous relationships? Or expressed loving 2 or more people at the same time and willing to be in relationship with all of them? Not many I can imagine. At no point I tried to say people like that don't exist, but if we're going by what is the most common thing to happen, then majority of people expect relationship to happen between 2 people. Whatever it make sense or is practical, idea of finding the one love and spending entire life with them is the most ingrained one and held as base line. Even if you like 2 people, you're expected to choose only 1 and focus on them. It is presented so strong in our culture, saying it isn't in human nature is being dishonest. And all of this is beside the point anyway.

You got to be kidding me. Loving multiple people is extremely common, which is why cheating is common. Society pushes for only 2 people to be together for very good reasons, none of which is because it's "natural", rather the argument is because it's "moral". And moral in this case is that it's indeed better for society as a whole, since it makes it more stable, with children growing up with focused caregivers, and with less violence related to sexual jealousy and accumulating partners. But humans are actually naturally polyamorous for the most part. Polyamory works well for humans who live in small groups like in early societies, but not at scale for large and complex societies.

What I was referring to was, that whatever or not something like what matsuri_wins was suggesting was possible in real life, didn't matter. Fiction is nowhere near as flexible as real life most of the time. People write stories to appeal to as many people as possible and follow things that are common and expected. And sadly what is most common and expected in romance genre is that only 2 characters will get together. Trying to write story about someone pursuing 2 people at once, conscious or not, is just not something you normally write. You can twist a formula for sure, but I have hard time believing any editor would see it as good idea. They are trying to make money, not write good stories after all. The point is it being just straight romance (or angst) makes more sense narratively, when you try to sell a book. As I said, if it was real life, I would be actually be more inclined to believe it, because real live stories are way more surprising than anything fiction can ever come up with. It's ironic that fiction is trying to imitate real life, but at the same time is much more predictable and structured than real life ever is. Of course author can still surprise me and prove me wrong, but considering fiction as a whole, I think they will rather stick to what was already proved to be safe bet.

The fact sentence "They are trying to make money, not write good stories after all." is true and I had to write it, made me feel so sad

I agree on this completely; on the other hand, since this is a yuri story in a yuri magazine, if they want to make money they need to make Kaoru either cheat on the husband or be abandoned by/leave him, and ultimately be with Uta. Otherwise this story is a fiasco.

last edited at Jan 5, 2019 11:22PM

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

I agree on this completely; on the other hand, since this is a yuri story in a yuri magazine, if they want to make money they need to make Kaoru either cheat on the husband or be abandoned by/leave him, and ultimately be with Uta. Otherwise this story is a fiasco.

I think it's a little late to be anything else.

I'd suggest a Citrus-style, "You know all that stuff that seemed to be a problem for the MCs getting together? It's not a problem. Because reasons. Everybody's happy!" endgame. A lot of people seemed pleased enough with that one.

Descarga
joined Aug 10, 2015

I agree on this completely; on the other hand, since this is a yuri story in a yuri magazine, if they want to make money they need to make Kaoru either cheat on the husband or be abandoned by/leave him, and ultimately be with Uta. Otherwise this story is a fiasco.

nisekoi was a shoujo story (well was more like a trashy harem but whatever) published on a shonen magazine (shonen jump) and make a lot of money i mean it was awfull but for completely diferent reasons
meanwhile bloom into you a yuri story is being published on dengeki daioh wich is a shonen/seinen magazine and made a lot of money

at this point it doesn´t really mater what the author decides this manga is beyond save
to be honest i don´t really care if uta ends up with kaoru or not
i don´t care if reichi is cheating on his wife
i don´t care about uta´s plans for the future
i don´t care if uta moves with her mother
i don´t care about kuro and miyabi´s relationship
and i definetly don´t care about that girl that go raped? by her teacher
and it´s probably because the author also don´t care about the stuff that i just mention probably because is more concerned about throwing random plot twists and drama to keep the tension instead of writing a decent story

last edited at Jan 6, 2019 4:52AM

Gg
joined Jul 13, 2018

The plot THICCens.

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