I'm just here to find out what the author is planning in the end

I'm just here to find out what the author is planning in the end

I hope it completely derails and they introduce something crazy, like an alien invasion.

I'm just here to find out what the author is planning in the end

I hope it completely derails and they introduce something crazy, like an alien invasion.

Great. Now, I'll be disappointed if that doesn't happen. Thanks.

I'm just here to find out what the author is planning in the end

I hope it completely derails and they introduce something crazy, like an alien invasion.

Great. Now, I'll be disappointed if that doesn't happen. Thanks.

Madoka help me, I haven't made an image meme like that in probably a decade.

last edited at Sep 25, 2024 10:12AM

Sometimes I wonder if they truly expect the audience to be able to empathize being in love with your sister. I at least am fully incapable of that. I've got a big sister, I've got a little sister, I've got a step sister, and I've got childhood friends as close as sisters, and absolutely none of them are remotely on the table for considering attraction. Even as a sexual minority there's still hundreds of millions of fish in the sea so there's not even any temptation, it's a concept that never would have occurred to me to think about without it happening in fiction. I could sorta get it in VC Andrews's "Flowers in the Attic" since they were locked up together and didn't see literally any other people, but that's not the case here or in the vast majority of cases, so why? Does the author just think it's a universal emotion we can relate to or what?

last edited at Sep 25, 2024 11:55AM

Sometimes I wonder if they truly expect the audience to be able to empathize being in love with your sister. I at least am fully incapable of that. I've got a big sister, I've got a little sister, I've got a step sister, and I've got childhood friends as close as sisters, and absolutely none of them are remotely on the table for considering attraction. Even as a sexual minority there's still hundreds of millions of fish in the sea so there's not even any temptation, it's a concept that never would have occurred to me to think about without it happening in fiction. I could sorta get it in VC Andrews's "Flowers in the Attic" since they were locked up together and didn't see literally any other people, but that's not the case here or in the vast majority of cases, so why? Does the author just think it's a universal emotion we can relate to or what?

Sometimes it feels more nefarious than that. Sometimes it feels as though there are yuri authors who think "I'm writing about taboo/"abnormal" subjects anyway, so why not?" And the potential for that has always rubbed me the wrong way. Then when I hear the way certain authors talk about their series it also puts me off from time to time.

last edited at Sep 25, 2024 12:24PM

Sometimes I wonder if they truly expect the audience to be able to empathize being in love with your sister. I at least am fully incapable of that. I've got a big sister, I've got a little sister, I've got a step sister, and I've got childhood friends as close as sisters, and absolutely none of them are remotely on the table for considering attraction. Even as a sexual minority there's still hundreds of millions of fish in the sea so there's not even any temptation, it's a concept that never would have occurred to me to think about without it happening in fiction. I could sorta get it in VC Andrews's "Flowers in the Attic" since they were locked up together and didn't see literally any other people, but that's not the case here or in the vast majority of cases, so why? Does the author just think it's a universal emotion we can relate to or what?

Sometimes it feels more nefarious than that. Sometimes I wonder if there are yuri authors who think "I'm writing about taboo anyway, so why not?" And the potential for that has always rubbed me the wrong way.

Oh wow that's a sad, but unfortunately plausible way of looking at it.
I'd prefer to think of it as a "popular trope" thrown in to increase reader engagement
"Popular trope" in quotes because I don't understand why it's popular. I understand the step-sibling romance trope is popular because it's a easy way to get the love interests living together before they're dating.

last edited at Sep 25, 2024 12:29PM

Sometimes I wonder if they truly expect the audience to be able to empathize being in love with your sister. I at least am fully incapable of that. I've got a big sister, I've got a little sister, I've got a step sister, and I've got childhood friends as close as sisters, and absolutely none of them are remotely on the table for considering attraction. Even as a sexual minority there's still hundreds of millions of fish in the sea so there's not even any temptation, it's a concept that never would have occurred to me to think about without it happening in fiction. I could sorta get it in VC Andrews's "Flowers in the Attic" since they were locked up together and didn't see literally any other people, but that's not the case here or in the vast majority of cases, so why? Does the author just think it's a universal emotion we can relate to or what?

Sometimes it feels more nefarious than that. Sometimes it feels as though there are yuri authors who think "I'm writing about taboo/"abnormal" subjects anyway, so why not?" And the potential for that has always rubbed me the wrong way. Then when I hear the way certain authors talk about their series it also puts me off from time to time.

I do sometimes get the impression that for some Japanese authors trying to be progressive, they somehow ended up including incest in a "love is love!" mentality, like how "I Love the Villainess" has that straight incest couple that gets married and runs away together.

I'd prefer to think of it as a "popular trope" thrown in to increase reader engagement
"Popular trope" in quotes because I don't understand why it's popular. I understand the step-sibling romance trope is popular because it's a easy way to get the love interests living together before they're dating.

That's generally it. Incest is a popular trope regardless of sexuality and country, porn in the USA typically doesn't venture into blood related incest stories, I think because there's more red tape, but step-family incest is one of the most popular genres of porn by a huge margin. With Japan there's a recent hetero anime about step-siblings, Citrus is one of the best selling manga with lesbian romance. Blood related stories do sometimes happen. I will say it's definitely not just a gay or Japan thing, incest blood / step-family related is just hugely popular in fiction in general.

Also as for if they expect the audience to empathize with it, I don't know? I don't self insert into media and I take it generally for what it is. Maybe some people empathize with it, I bet most just consume it as a spicy taboo story. People also consume tons of extremely violent media, and that's almost never questioned. Slasher movies were at one point in America one of the most popular and successful film genres. Violence is pretty popular in general with media and humans like things they probably shouldn't, it's often a core trait of humanity lol

Edit: As long as people can separate reality and fiction, that's the most important thing I think.

last edited at Sep 25, 2024 3:08PM

Also as for if they expect the audience to empathize with it, I don't know? I don't self insert into media and I take it generally for what it is. Maybe some people empathize with it, I bet most just consume it as a spicy taboo story.

The taboo def part of it. Forbidden fruit will never not be sweet. As far as empathizing goes, I can def see where it'd come from. Theoretically two people being mutually in love doesn't hurt anyone, so there shouldn't be anything wrong with it.

But obviously there are a lot of circumstances in play that make it complicated/unhealthy (power dynamics, risks of birth defects, criminalization, etc) in real life. So since fiction let's ppl blend those out and focus on the romantic part and make it a "star-crossed lovers" kinda deal, which is p easy to empathize with i guess.

Not really sure any of those factors matter when there's no indication of incest being part of this story from the name, description, and 95% of its content lol. It's just thrown in here suddenly as something of a pseudo-tragic backstory? And it's definitely not presented as spicy.
This isn't about self inserting either, but rather empathy: understanding what the feelings of the character feel like. Wanting to date someone you've grown up with under the same roof is an extremely alien emotion from my perspective, but it's frequently presented as not alien at all, but instead something familiar and understandable. And that is what I don't understand lol.

Not really sure any of those factors matter when there's no indication of incest being part of this story from the name, description, and 95% of its content lol. It's just thrown in here suddenly as something of a pseudo-tragic backstory? And it's definitely not presented as spicy.
This isn't about self inserting either, but rather empathy: understanding what the feelings of the character feel like. Wanting to date someone you've grown up with under the same roof is an extremely alien emotion from my perspective, but it's frequently presented as not alien at all, but instead something familiar and understandable. And that is what I don't understand lol.

Well from my understanding the conversation was generally broad about the inclusion of incest, especially as I was quoting DrJamesFox's comment on it being a popular trope, and James saying they don't understand why it's popular. Jame's comment is what I was focused on, along with the nature of why people might enjoy it in media. I'm not saying it's spicy here, but it is sometimes included as a spicy taboo element in media. So I don't think my points and words are completely invalidated and worthless to this conversation.

If we're specifically and only talking about this story I'll agree that it's not well introduced or handled. I should have also said that sometimes incest is included as a dramatic element in media, something shocking that adds an extra layer of complication to the relationships.

I mentioned self insertion because there's some media consumers that self insert into an incestuous fantasy, which is something I don't relate to or understand. I'd like to think I'm a generally empathic person though there is a lot about how other people view and experience the world that puzzles me. In this situation all I can say is being human and having relationships of all kinds is often messy and highly complicated, which I can at least empathize with human relations being difficult to handle. Though again this story could be written better, and be better at introducing complicated relationships and feelings.

last edited at Sep 25, 2024 8:58PM

Not really sure any of those factors matter when there's no indication of incest being part of this story from the name, description, and 95% of its content lol. It's just thrown in here suddenly as something of a pseudo-tragic backstory? And it's definitely not presented as spicy.
This isn't about self inserting either, but rather empathy: understanding what the feelings of the character feel like. Wanting to date someone you've grown up with under the same roof is an extremely alien emotion from my perspective, but it's frequently presented as not alien at all, but instead something familiar and understandable. And that is what I don't understand lol.

If we're specifically and only talking about this story I'll agree that it's not well introduced or handled. I should have also said that sometimes incest is included as a dramatic element in media, something shocking that adds an extra layer of complication to the relationships.

Between this and Sasakoi, I'm pretty burnt out on unnecessary incest added just to create tension and drama. But Fluffycow is tired of reading my rants about Sasakoi so I'll leave it at that. :P

At the same time these two manga are fumbling about with incest, Contract Sisters is tackling incest with a much defter hand. It's one of the main themes of the story and not just a distraction. It results in serious consequences for the characters involved and is not just a source of cheap drama.
And the reader can find Contract Sisters compelling while continuing to feel that incest is an alien emotion that's very difficult to empathize with.

Not really sure any of those factors matter when there's no indication of incest being part of this story from the name, description, and 95% of its content lol. It's just thrown in here suddenly as something of a pseudo-tragic backstory? And it's definitely not presented as spicy.
This isn't about self inserting either, but rather empathy: understanding what the feelings of the character feel like. Wanting to date someone you've grown up with under the same roof is an extremely alien emotion from my perspective, but it's frequently presented as not alien at all, but instead something familiar and understandable. And that is what I don't understand lol.

If we're specifically and only talking about this story I'll agree that it's not well introduced or handled. I should have also said that sometimes incest is included as a dramatic element in media, something shocking that adds an extra layer of complication to the relationships.

Between this and Sasakoi, I'm pretty burnt out on unnecessary incest added just to create tension and drama. But Fluffycow is tired of reading my rants about Sasakoi so I'll leave it at that. :P

At the same time these two manga are fumbling about with incest, Contract Sisters is tackling incest with a much defter hand. It's one of the main themes of the story and not just a distraction. It results in serious consequences for the characters involved and is not just a source of cheap drama.
And the reader can find Contract Sisters compelling while continuing to feel that incest is an alien emotion that's very difficult to empathize with.

Yeah I think the way Contract Sisters handles incest is interesting, though while I know I'm in the minority on Dynasty I also think the uncertain and confusing feeling of it is captured okay in Sasakoi, which I know that's something we agree to disagree on and that's fine. Ultimately I feel both series are generally better written than this one.

last edited at Sep 26, 2024 1:23AM

I think this one started off fine, but the 'sleepover' has wrecked the pacing.

I think this one started off fine, but the 'sleepover' has wrecked the pacing.

Just go to sleep and it'll be over when you wake up...maybe.