MacySan posted:

I explained above. The fact that someone is depressed doesn't give them a free pass on their actions either. Her actions are understandable to a certain degree, but what I don't excuse is someone trying to do bad to others who are not in fault of their situation. If she acted like that towards her step mom for example I'd get it. But she is lashing on people who are not at fault here and are trying to help her.
This conversation can go on cycles and we can keep on repeating the same thing with different words, because there is no objectively right in this situation and everyone sets the line on a different level. But it's not about not showing empathy. Almost everyone has their reasons of faulting others, does that mean they have the right to do so?

I just find how she treats Sakura pretty distasteful, because Sakura had nothing to do with her unfortunate situation.

You're very badly missing the point. Empathy is indeed the root of peoples' problem with your criticism of Ashima. As random pointed out understanding Ashima's actions is very basic human psychology. Your biggest criticism of Ashima is her pushing away those who are trying to help her but as has been repeatedly explained to you, this is completely normal behavior for someone in her situation. And that's not even addressing the point she's a hormone-addled teenage girl so the issue is going to be amplified.

You're using her behavior as justification for your view that nobody should bother helping her. That view is explicitly a lack of empathy. And your constant refusing to understand the situation when it's explained to you in a straightforward manner elevates your lack of empathy to spouting off on a subject you clearly do not understand only aggravating the situation more.

last edited at May 11, 2020 2:05AM

MacySan posted:

I explained above. The fact that someone is depressed doesn't give them a free pass on their actions either. Her actions are understandable to a certain degree, but what I don't excuse is someone trying to do bad to others who are not in fault of their situation. If she acted like that towards her step mom for example I'd get it. But she is lashing on people who are not at fault here and are trying to help her.
This conversation can go on cycles and we can keep on repeating the same thing with different words, because there is no objectively right in this situation and everyone sets the line on a different level. But it's not about not showing empathy. Almost everyone has their reasons of faulting others, does that mean they have the right to do so?

I just find how she treats Sakura pretty distasteful, because Sakura had nothing to do with her unfortunate situation.

You're very badly missing the point. Empathy is indeed the root of peoples' problem with your criticism of Ashima. As random pointed out understanding Ashima's actions is very basic human psychology. Your biggest criticism of Ashima is her pushing away those who are trying to help her but as has been repeatedly explained to you, this is completely normal behavior for someone in her situation. And that's not even addressing the point she's a hormone-addled teenage girl so the issue is going to be amplified.

You're using her behavior as justification for your view that nobody should bother helping her. That view is explicitly a lack of empathy. And your constant refusing to understand the situation when it's explained to you in a straightforward manner elevates your lack of empathy to spouting off on a subject you clearly do not understand only aggravating the situation more.

Before getting so angry maybe bother checking your reading skills next time. I literally just said in my latest post that I don't mean she shouldn't get help. You don't sound like you want to exchange opinions, you sound like you're just want to lash out.

Gosh this thread is toxic.

Hey, my Spanish is good enough to get something out of the translation (with some Google help). The reader site is slow, though!

As of the start of chapter 9:

Sisters: So far the sisters are doing fine, though the incest seems to have fallen off. Sakura wanted to run off with her, they reconciled, Mayumi nearly drowned, and Ashima is now living at Seagull. Sakura comes visit a lot to work on homework so they can go to boarding school together.

Touko: It feels like she's been deliberately isolating Mayumi since high school. Non-violent yandere territory.

LOL next page had an ad for MUL.

last edited at May 12, 2020 2:51AM

Finished. Man that reader is slow.

Chapters vary widely in length: chapter 7 is 45 pages, practically an arc by itself; Chap 12 is 13 pages and ends on a cliffhanger. Mangaka no baka!

Sisters: Still friendly and kissing-free. Sakura (the legit and happy one) wants them to go away for high school so they can live together. She also just said that she would rather stay with Ashima than get married. They're middle schoolers, but hey, it's cute.

Touko: Lies. Negs. Forget yandere, she's just plain abusive (psychologically.)

Mayumi and Rin: Tormented by the thought that Rin might get married, Mayumi kisses Rin. Rin pushes her away, but looks ambiguous on the last page. Given that they're in the front seat of a stopped but non-parked car, with her 3 year old niece sleeping in the back, and it was a sudden assault, I imagine Rin could push her away even if she generally wants to jump Mayumi's bones. Which we don't know, though she's still been touchy-feely, and said how it's a lot easier to raise Hinata (niece) with Mayumi around.

last edited at May 11, 2020 11:24PM

Prediction (spoiler for the later chapters): Touko never had a miscarriage. She seduced Mayumi's fiancee, claimed to be pregnant to break him away from Mayumi, then claimed miscarriage once Mayumi had fled.

Or maybe got pregnant, then had an abortion once her purpose was served, and passed it off as miscarriage.

last edited at May 12, 2020 2:23AM

MacySan posted:

Before getting so angry maybe bother checking your reading skills next time. I literally just said in my latest post that I don't mean she shouldn't get help. You don't sound like you want to exchange opinions, you sound like you're just want to lash out.

Gosh this thread is toxic.

I'm not angry but good job assuming, lol. And regardless of your specifying that, literally everything else you have said has backed up that perception. So uh... Good job communicating what you meant there I guess.

And if the thread seems toxic it's because you're being so insufferable and seemingly completely lacking in self awareness. Usually in a situation like this where literally nobody is backing you up while you've got a bunch of people all opposing you, chances are it's you and not them. You should step back and reexamine how you've handled all of this because it reflects quite poorly on you, and replies such as this one only further that viewpoint.

Prediction (spoiler for the later chapters): Touko never had a miscarriage. She seduced Mayumi's fiancee, claimed to be pregnant to break him away from Mayumi, then claimed miscarriage once Mayumi had fled.

Or maybe got pregnant, then had an abortion once her purpose was served, and passed it off as miscarriage.

I agree, she was probably never pregnant to begin with. She probably lied to the guy the same way she's been lying to Mayumi, and to Rin. Since he seems like a relatively decent person (not decent enough to stop him from cheating on his fiance, but decent enough to throw his future plans away and marry the girl he got pregnant), he probably just took her word for it. She certainly seems devious enough to intentionally get herself pregnant to manipulate him, all the while planning to abort the child, but it's unlikely that it was necessary.

Here's my guess about what's going to happen: Rin is going to be confused and ambivalent about being kissed, Mayumi's going to take that poorly and decide that she's worthless and should go back to the city with her awful friend, because that's all she deserves. Then after a few weeks or months, Rin's going to come to some kind of realization and go find her and tell her she loves her. Maybe Mayumi will confront her awful friend and tell her she understands, and forgive her for some unfathomable reason. And then they'll move back to Umineko-sou and live happily ever after.

I hope I'm wrong though, it seems like that sort of thing is the default ending for romantic drama manga. I've read something like a dozen times, including twice in other Kodama Naoko series.

Reading this in Spanish is really weird because I read Touko's lines in the voice of Paola Bracho. Fitting, I suppose.

My thoughts on the sisters. Probably nothing new, at least for the first part.

It is a yuri manga so who knows where it might go, but just based on the six English chapters, I'd say Sakura loves her sister/playmate, but in a normal sisterly way. Ashima's actions could be part acting out her reputation, partly unsettling/driving away Sakura, maybe part getting some contact with one of two people she can touch. Sakura doesn't like it and genuinely protests but doesn't view it as a dealbreaker yet, especially with guilt for how her parents treat Ashima. I imagine thoughts like "If tolerating aggressive footsie is what it takes to keep Ashima around, I'll tolerate it."

Spanish chapters: Notably, a naked bath scene with them has no sexual tension whatsoever. After they reconcile we don't see Ashima do anything improper. There's also a flashback of "I was taking my frustrations out on Sakura." We do get the cliffhanger-proximity marriage question, but I think Ashima asks more because she's wondering about Rin's future, and Sakura's reply of choosing Ashima over marriage could just be a middle schooler who has yet to feel lust or fall in love and thus can't really imagine what she's rejecting. From what we've seen I don't think Sakura's really discovered sex yet; Ashima at least thinks about it, though we don't have a solid attraction yet for her either.

Of course, that's the realistic take on the text. Given the metatext that the author chose to put that in a yuri manga, in a short chapter where the MC kisses her love interest, incest fans can still hope.

Totally unrelatedly, I wonder if Chekov's Death By Ocean is on the wall. We've had (tiny spoiler) two different "don't kill yourself!" reactions to someone looking at or standing in the water.

The drama intensifies, typical kodama. Its up to chapter 12 elsewhere. It'd be nice if it keeps updating here

The drama intensifies, typical kodama. Its up to chapter 12 elsewhere. It'd be nice if it keeps updating here

It's licensed in English. The first line on the upload request form is NO LICENSED SERIES, so I'm guessing this won't be updated here again.

As for the series, the latest chapter (15) makes me think my earlier prediction was wrong. It looks like Mayumi has grown enough of a spine to say no to Touko, and she's decided to stay with Rin. Maybe Touko will do something completely slimy and underhanded to try and force her to come back with her, but as of now, I can't see what there is she could do, short of murdering Rin. And that doesn't look like her style. Maybe she'll do something to Hinata and try to make it look like it was Mayumi's fault, so Rin will get mad at her?

last edited at Jul 20, 2020 5:19AM

The drama intensifies, typical kodama. Its up to chapter 12 elsewhere. It'd be nice if it keeps updating here

It's licensed in English. The first line on the upload request form is NO LICENSED SERIES, so I'm guessing this won't be updated here again.

Because there are no licensed series updated here regardless...

The drama intensifies, typical kodama. Its up to chapter 12 elsewhere. It'd be nice if it keeps updating here

It's licensed in English. The first line on the upload request form is NO LICENSED SERIES, so I'm guessing this won't be updated here again.

Because there are no licensed series updated here regardless...

Shh. We don't want them to find out.

Also, I don't know if this plays a role in the uploaders' decisions, but all those series are being scanlated by someone who actually knows Japanese, whereas the version of this series that's up on mangadex is not.

^ Now that is a good reason to avoid it, yes.

Wow, it’s gonna take a long time for English version to get published. I might forget this series by the time it gets wrapped up... I mean, there’s no advertising for the series once it is licensed. I’d figure readers here would pick it up if the last chapter is finished and uploaded here for free.

It’s done after 16 chapters i can’t even _:(´ཀ`」 ∠):

last edited at Aug 25, 2020 9:36PM

Indeed!

Happy ending, at least. | Touko the Psycho got denied but not really called out for her lies and negging. I feel sorry for her baby. | We're left to speculate about whether the sisters have a normal relationship or not. | Confirmation Rin dyes her hair and is a bit behind at the end. | Lots of manga volumes on the shelves behind Ashima. :) | Timeskip is probably a few years, with the sisters in college, given Hinata's articulateness, and there having been enough summer vacations for Ashima to speak of a trend.

last edited at Aug 26, 2020 2:19AM

I really don't like it when Naoko Kodama does wholesome stuff... lol :D I would have expected at least some more craziness for example related to the sisters, but I guess everybody gets old and starts to feel all fuzzy inside

last edited at Jan 5, 2021 5:20PM

I really don't like it when Naoko Kodama does wholesome stuff... lol :D I would have expected at least some more craziness for example related to the sisters, but I guess everybody gets old and starts to feel all fuzzy inside

She’s specifically said (maybe in the the tank to Fake Married My Junior) that throughout her career sometimes she likes to do dark stories and sometimes sweet ones—but always with big boobs.

I really don't like it when Naoko Kodama does wholesome stuff... lol :D I would have expected at least some more craziness for example related to the sisters, but I guess everybody gets old and starts to feel all fuzzy inside

I guess it depends on how you found her first. For me she'll always be primarily the author of Renai Manga, so I very much like when she does this.

She’s specifically said (maybe in the the tank to Fake Married My Junior) that throughout her career sometimes she likes to do dark stories and sometimes sweet ones—but always with big boobs.

Weird, but respectable. Laughed a bit when first read this statement.

I guess it depends on how you found her first. For me she'll always be primarily the author of Renai Manga, so I very much like when she does this.

I got to know the name via NTR, but I became a big fan when I read A World Without Freedom and Cocytus a couple years back. So yeah, I lean on the morbid side of things.

And yes, she did say in an interview that:

Question: Did anything change in your creative process once you debuted as a professional?

Kodama: Not right after going pro, but as I’ve drawn over the years, many things have changed. The ratio between “I want to express my own feelings,” and “I want everyone to enjoy reading” has changed from about 8:2 to 3:7. Because of that, the way I go about making stories and characters has changed too.

https://wolfhonyaku.wordpress.com/2019/10/04/kodama-naoko-the-storyteller-of-light-and-shadow/

So this would suggest that she's moved slightly away from the darker stuff, which is a shame. Still, probably my favorite artist right now. Her best stuff is just so good.

PS. Kodama also pretty openly said in the interview that Ashima and Sakura are "going at it" lol, didn't notice last time I read it

last edited at Jan 7, 2021 7:07PM

Just finished reading this one in another site and while it was a little overdramatic i liked it.
I dont think that the accident in the mountains was realy necessary for the couple to developt and everything about Touko makes me wonder if she was a human being or an alien pretending (i know there are extremely possessive and manipulating people like her, but jesus on a sitck THAT was a lot), but overall i liked the characters and what the story was trying to say.

I really liked this one, sure Touko doesn't get called out for her b.s behaviour and gets a better ending then she deserves.

But the main couple were sweet, and the side characters were fun. And it didn't overstay it's welcome and we got a nice ending. So don't regret having read it.

https://wolfhonyaku.wordpress.com/2019/10/04/kodama-naoko-the-storyteller-of-light-and-shadow/

So this would suggest that she's moved slightly away from the darker stuff, which is a shame. Still, probably my favorite artist right now. Her best stuff is just so good.

PS. Kodama also pretty openly said in the interview that Ashima and Sakura are "going at it" lol, didn't notice last time I read it

Oh my, so she does.

The typesetting is inconsistent, occasionally the mangaka is bold but usually not, with the interviewer questions having a ☆

Interviewer: She’s a bit promiscuous, isn’t she? Her classmate, Sakura-chan, is so high and mighty, but behind everyone’s back, Ajima’s kissing her and stuff.

Mangaka: Yeah they’re sneaking around… Even though she’s quite respected at school.

I: They have to be having some hedonistic relationship. I was surprised that they’re living together as well. ...

M: They’re definitely going at it like rabbits (lol)

I: Even though Ajima and Sakura are children, they’re pretty… deep…

M: And what’s more, one’s an illegitimate child, so they’re actually half-sisters. They have the same father, so it’s morally questionable.

I have to say, the manga did not convey "actual full sex" vs. "Ashima kissing/groping her sister and Sakura going along with it".