Forum › Nettaigyo wa Yuki ni Kogareru discussion

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Rosmontis
Nevrilicious Scans
joined Jun 5, 2015

Eggon posted:

Is it not true? Many yuri fans are straight men who have unrealistic expectations of lesbian relationships and get mad when their fantasies aren’t indulged by authors. The opposite is true for yaoi, just go to Animate and observe yourself. Let me make this clear, none of what I said is name calling, I mean every word literally.

It's not. I'm sure many of people unsatisfied with this story are lesbians or lgbt+ people sick of lack of representation, bait and general way publishers are always afraid of properly confirming anything. You're making it sound like they're the only people who could possibly complain about it and not enough girl on girl action is the only possible reason for it. While there definitely exist straight men that just find lesbians hot, there's also plenty of them that read yuri for actual story and romance. And even if, it's still just a huge generalization that doesn't add anything and simply antagonizes other people. Only reason you added it was to just call them out and shame them, without any intention for discussion. Maybe you could actually convince some of them to take stories about lesbians more seriously than just fetish fuel, but attacking them like that instead puts them on defense and give no reason to even try to engage into discussion with you outside of attacking you back.

TotemsInTheNight
joined Apr 9, 2021

TotemsInTheNight posted:

How can you discuss loneliness without discussing the elephant in the room, love?

Since when loneliness is inherently connected to love?

I never said love is "inherently" connected, but it is a relevant issue that when discussed can make the story better. I am not saying the story is not good, I'm just saying it could have been so much more.

How in the hell do you think that they don’t love each other? I think it’s pretty explicitly clear that they do, It’s just not explicitly romantic. There’s nothing inherently more meaningful about romantic love compared to any other kind of love. I’m just gonna say it, the people saying it’s worse because it’s not yuri is just sad that they can’t project their own fantasies into the story and live vicariously through them. A lot of them are probably straight men as well who fetishize lesbian relationships.

Those are hurtful words to someone who's on mtf HRT. But anyway, I'm trying to reread without an assumption of romance between the two characters, and well the author's intention actually makes more sense. That also means the first couple of chapters are kinda too blushy-subtext. The story is widely advertised as LGBTQ+ (I was recommended from BIY) so I got the wrong assumptions from the start.

OrangePekoe Admin
Animesher.com_tamako-market-midori-tokiwa-deviantart-950416a
joined Mar 20, 2013

TotemsInTheNight posted:

Those are hurtful words to someone who's on mtf HRT. But anyway, I'm trying to reread without an assumption of romance between the two characters, and well the author's intention actually makes more sense. That also means the first couple of chapters are kinda too blushy-subtext. The story is widely advertised as LGBTQ+ (I was recommended from BIY) so I got the wrong assumptions from the start.

Good luck. As has been said better by others in this thread, it was never advertised as explicitly LGBTQ+ by the original artist or in its (Japanese) volume 1 marketing materials. Sadly it does seem to have gotten all mixed up - for any number of reasons - so those people who got the wrong impression are hardly at fault for not knowing any differently.

There are definitely some unfortunate tonal problems as the story transitions from light-hearted blushing to intense drama. Not the least of which is Koyuki being a 24/7 blush mess for three and a half volumes, only to seemingly lose that part of her identity for 95% of the story afterwards. Personally still, I find it a bit difficult to not consider romance with more than a half-a-dozen multi-page sequences of the two leads sharing wistful looks and achingly tender touches. That's just me though.

JazzLafayette
4fe5eecd-bb71-4108-8d32-020d4e723c02
joined Oct 3, 2018

There is absolutely nothing gay about the line "[The girl who called out to me was] more clear-blue than the ocean itself."

Nep
joined Apr 28, 2016

boring pointless trash 1/10

Unknown%20(1)
joined Jan 30, 2019

The art style is truly amazing and the story is cute but there was so much more potential with it that wasn't explored and it's sad

Untitled
joined May 2, 2018

This week's episode was really nice though, with Kuuya's backstory and stuf.... oh wait

Woof
joined Feb 8, 2013

this is most yurish subtle I've ever read. it has more yuri than some things tagged yuri in here
lovely. interesting. easy to read. so much to think of
love is beautiful no matter the form)

1558977628371
joined May 29, 2019

I liked it. It feels like they built a solid foundation for a lifelong relationship and that's hella romantic, yuri or no. Also I completely forgot the name to this and am glad I was able to find it by searching "not lizard"

Ykn1
joined Dec 20, 2018

Also I completely forgot the name to this and am glad I was able to find it by searching "not lizard"

Truly the most important of tags.

Capy%20white
joined Mar 21, 2019

Also I completely forgot the name to this and am glad I was able to find it by searching "not lizard"

Truly the most important of tags.

I feel like Nice boat is pretty up there as well.

Ms_icon
joined Nov 3, 2018

Is there a mistake in the "also known as" line? It's "A Tropical Fish Yearns for Sea", but shouldn't it be snow instead?

X2(edited)2
joined Jan 2, 2022

Unlike some commenters, I really liked the drama in the middle. I liked how it took them a while to get past their loneliness, and that it wasn't easy opening up to someone, even if they were close. In fact, it made it all the harder. But I lowered my opinion of it because of the ending. Whatever one may say about the author tells the story they want to tell, it's still disappointing that this was all yuri-bait. The beginning and even middle chapters are so clear on the type of feelings these two have for each other, and the whole salamander and frog thing they emphasize at the end is too, and yet the ending just doesn't do much with it. It still keeps it as subtext, which seems pointless at the end of the story. Why? What does it add to the story by keeping it up in the air? I know there are some stories that like to keep things up to audience interpretation, and I can respect that to some extent, but too many authors also use this as a way to not make decisions and as a form of cowardice. Some stories may be elevated by it, but some are not, and this is the latter. There is nothing gained by keeping it vague, it just felt like an underwritten ending.

Which is not to say I didn't like it. I'm glad I read it, and I did really like it. But the ending has definitely soured me a little on it. I don't really want to be interpreting it as something I want. I want the story to be told. If they aren't in love and are just friends, then tell me that story. If they are in love and want to be in a relationship, then tell me that story. That's it kept vague at the end is just....annoying. And especially so because what came before was so great.

D5164b27-cfaa-445d-9e4d-39ed256e1b0a
joined Mar 4, 2021

And they were besties <3

joined Mar 11, 2020

only on chapter 3, but holy shit how is this "subtext" it's more obvious than some of the series marked as straight yuri on this site, good grief! xD

joined Feb 1, 2021

only on chapter 3, but holy shit how is this "subtext" it's more obvious than some of the series marked as straight yuri on this site, good grief! xD

You'll see. Oh, god, you'll see D:

F4x-3lwx0aa0tcu31
joined Apr 20, 2013

I hope this gets like 5y anniversary special or illustration with a time skip or something

E-iue9kvqaa8rk1
joined Mar 29, 2019

only on chapter 3, but holy shit how is this "subtext" it's more obvious than some of the series marked as straight yuri on this site, good grief! xD

Hope you enjoy yourlsef reading it completly, still one of my favorites <3

I hope this gets like 5y anniversary special or illustration with a time skip or something

That would be lovely.

I wonder how is Makoto Hagino doing? hope she is doing well

Ms_icon
joined Nov 3, 2018

^
She's ten chapters into her new monthly serialization. Seems to be sci-fi? I don't think there are translations.

E-iue9kvqaa8rk1
joined Mar 29, 2019

^Thank you for the info!

very happy her to confirm she is already doing a new manga,hope it gets translated eventually.

joined Jan 10, 2023

You know, it's funny. I wasn't really interested in reading this for all those years that Hachimitsu spent scanlating this series, but I recently stumbled upon comments here and elsewhere that mentioned Hagino talking about her own loneliness and that finally got me to start reading it. And I loved it. It is a bit silly of me to only get into this work after reading up a bit about the author's own struggles with loneliness but I think that also set my expectations to be different from what a lot of other people wanted from this story. Yes, the subtext is there, and the ending can feel a bit too ambiguous for some people (me, internally: it counts as a date!), but ultimately, the story is about two lonely people who find each other and help each other to grow. With the added context of the author's struggles with loneliness, I realized just how much of her own feelings must have been poured into this work.

That being said though, I decided to check up on Hagino Makoto's social media stuff, and it seems like she pretty much nuked everything (unless stuff was linked wrong). Youtube account gone, pixiv gone, her own website gone, twitter still there but everything's been nuked except for a couple of retweets from years ago. Mangaupdates did provide another pen name for her and a different twitter account attached to that, but there's not much to that account publicly. (edit: I'm not sure if that twitter account is even associated with her, there's a discrepancy between the twitter join date and the mangaupdate page's last update date) I hope she's doing alright. I know the posts right above were talking about her new serialization but according to Mangaupdates that seems to have ended already with a volume compilation being released a few weeks ago. Not sure if that's accurate.

last edited at Jan 13, 2023 4:36AM

Screen%20shot%202023-01-07%20at%2010.57.07%20pm
joined May 21, 2021

Don't buy the Viz official translation. First of all, they got rid of all honorifics per their localization policy. It is okay in some cases, but I think a series that relies heavily on dialogue and nuance like this one suffers from such a change . And there are various consistency issues that stand out to a casual reader like me. Koyuki refers to Kaede by first name then switches to last name in the span of 4 pages (chapter 18). I guess the translator wanted to make the characters sound like they're on a first name basic (they aren't) but failed to apply the change consistently.

And then this blatant mistake in Koyuki's monologue (chapter 10) that could have been avoided with the slightest bit of attention:

In this scene Koyuki thinks about how she has changed because of Konatsu (fan translation). But apparently the translator didn't bother to remember the main character names, or he thought Konatsu was the one doing the monologue. Either way, this kind of careless mistake is unacceptable for an official translation from a major publisher. The quality control (or lack thereof) speaks volume about how little Viz cares about their products.

Mistakes aside, the translation zigzags between heavy localization at some points and playing it too safe at others. Early on the characters speak like stereotypical American teenagers (Can you imagine Koyuki ever exclaiming: "Oh man, this is gonna suck!"?) with a health dose of "yes ma'am" on the side. This is toned down soon, only to be replaced by dispassionate, by-the-book dialogue. At the fireworks scene (chapter 8) in fan translation, Konatsu asks Koyuki "Why did you call out to me when we first met?". The official version of this line is merely "Why did you speak to me?" which reduces the impact in my opinion.

It's not necessarily the translator's fault that this release quality is subpar. The translator, John Weery, is one of the main guys at Viz who are in charge of several weekly Shounen Jump series. Given his overwhelming workload on a weekly basic, it wouldn't be a surprise if this niche series wasn't high on his priorities (heck, he even made similar mistakes in the flagship mainstream series Demon Slayer). Not to mention that Nettaigyo is hardly similar to your average battle shounen in both tone and style. The real question is why Viz assigned this series to someone who was both overworked and unsuitable for the content, and why they failed to provide any degree of professional quality control/proofreading. Though we all know the answer is because they simply don't care.
/rant

TL/DR: Official translation is horrible with various mistakes, consistency issues, and overall just feels bland. Do yourself a favor and read the fan translation. Buy Japanese version if you want to support the author, but don't reward Viz for a botched job of a translation.

I know the posts right above were talking about her new serialization but according to Mangaupdates that seems to have ended already with a volume compilation being released a few weeks ago. Not sure if that's accurate.

I don't know where that poster got the info from, but I can't find any news about a serialization, let alone one with 10 chapters. Hagino Makoto's latest book that you mentioned is a collection of five short stories with sci-fi theme.

last edited at Jan 16, 2023 1:33AM

F4x-3lwx0aa0tcu31
joined Apr 20, 2013

That's really sad, so many people would miss how great their interactions really are like that :(

But I'm more worried about the author now, I hope she's okay

Screen%20shot%202023-01-07%20at%2010.57.07%20pm
joined May 21, 2021

But I'm more worried about the author now, I hope she's okay

What's happened to the author?

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