alright this is neat, a crisis of faith brought in by the fact that Satsuki likes Rika and having to grapple with how he kind of actually still sees Rika as a girl and that's not cool of him.

What I especially like about this is that Satsuki isn't denying Rika of the respect he deserves, like it's clear now that on some level he sees Rika as a girl and specifically as a girl he'd like to be in a relationship in but this is HIS problem and not Rika's, this is something that Satsuki realizes and immediately needs to leave over because he needs to sort this out for himself.

Also Rika sure seems to be interested in Okazaki and I'd love to see where that goes too.

Really makes me look forward to seeing the next chapter

last edited at Oct 23, 2022 5:11PM

Everything BreadBunny said in the post above is spot on, Satsuki is dealing with a lot of feelings that are coming into conflict with each other and he’s gonna need some time and space to sort through them.

From the college scene it seems like Rika is straight (ie he was paying a lot of attention to that girl from his class) so I’m thinking we probably won’t end up with a BL turn

Yeah, unless Rika ends up being bi or pan, it seems like the author was very obviously setting his interest in girls.

I really can't wait for more of this, it's rapidly become one of my favorite manga I'm reading right now.

does this count as yaoi

binge read the 6 chapters, quite good. For me I don't really care if they end up dating or not I like their dynamic already. Either way I like this manga a lot right now

I literally went "NO" at him misgendering Rika in his thoughts, but he seems to have gone "NO" at himself so that's good

I don't like the blond guy already.

My first thoughts at his reaction to Rika picking up his earbuds was "is he maybe on the autistic spectrum?", but I'm still not convinced either way. Which is great.

its interesting because i was thinking quite the opposite. i absolutely adore the blond kid and seriously relate to a lot of his actions from the very beginning. i don't think I've ever related to a fictional character more than right now. we are misunderstood lol

edit because I'm awake now lol: to expand upon that a bit, my initial thought with him was Asperger's/ high functioning autism as well. but as i continued to read i saw myself in him with every word he spoke and action he took and i understand where he is coming from completely. its almost like I'm looking at myself.. and as far as im concerned i don't have autism.. but if i did, it would explain a lot tbh..

but on a less serious note, i really like this manga so far. the character dynamic between the two is really refreshing and surprisingly realistic. despite the sometimes wonky anatomy, this author knows what they are doing here. i cant wait to watch more of this story unfold.

last edited at Oct 24, 2022 8:56PM

People be warned again: in Japanese, I'm pretty sure the blond guy doesn't employ any pronoun.

The translator went to great lengths to gender Rika as a "he", even in the mouth of the other characters, and it's coming back to bite them, because Japanese can do completely away with pronouns when referring to someone else. So, by using masculine pronouns, the translator changed the relationships dynamics.

Here, the guy is probably thinking that he likes Rika as a girl and that's what makes him conflicted, because it's really important for Rika to be seen as a boy by someone, so it's a form of betrayal.

When people read "I like him" in English, they read it as yaoi, when it's not the point here. Satsuki isn't gay. He's attracted to Rika as a girl.

Good intentions from the translator are misleading you.

On the other hand, Rika seems, at this point of the story, to be attracted to girls, so, in the end, this manga may end up completely Het.

Everything BreadBunny said in the post above is spot on, Satsuki is dealing with a lot of feelings that are coming into conflict with each other and he’s gonna need some time and space to sort through them.

From the college scene it seems like Rika is straight (ie he was paying a lot of attention to that girl from his class) so I’m thinking we probably won’t end up with a BL turn

Attraction and sexual orientation is fluid so anything could happen tbh

does this count as yaoi

We will see, depends on what characters wil come out as and how they end up interacting with each other

Everything BreadBunny said in the post above is spot on, Satsuki is dealing with a lot of feelings that are coming into conflict with each other and he’s gonna need some time and space to sort through them.

From the college scene it seems like Rika is straight (ie he was paying a lot of attention to that girl from his class) so I’m thinking we probably won’t end up with a BL turn

So much for the not het tag :V

last edited at Oct 24, 2022 4:30AM

ah yes, feeling like garbage after some rando casually missgenders you, after you gotten used to your friends getting it right.
better then without your friends, so i feel him there too.
lots of relatability

for a second i was scared before satsuki bonked himself. the "gender one correctly/bad faith usage of they/them until you dont wanna anymore or it doesnt profit you" sucks.

but especially after someone else missgenders someone/oneself, its very easy to do it yourself as well. doesnt mean it hurts less

So much for the not het tag :V

what if they knew and intended it for rika looking at the girl. thats the not het they meant

People be warned again: in Japanese, I'm pretty sure the blond guy doesn't employ any pronoun.

The translator went to great lengths to gender Rika as a "he", even in the mouth of the other characters, and it's coming back to bite them, because Japanese can do completely away with pronouns when referring to someone else. So, by using masculine pronouns, the translator changed the relationships dynamics.

Here, the guy is probably thinking that he likes Rika as a girl and that's what makes him conflicted, because it's really important for Rika to be seen as a boy by someone, so it's a form of betrayal.

When people read "I like him" in English, they read it as yaoi, when it's not the point here. Satsuki isn't gay. He's attracted to Rika as a girl.

Good intentions from the translator are misleading you.

On the other hand, Rika seems, at this point of the story, to be attracted to girls, so, in the end, this manga may end up completely Het.

I really dislike the certainty with which you seem to suggest that Satsuki didn't use language that indicated a masculine reference in the "I like him." part, not only because once again you're taking a shot in the dark denigrating other people's work without knowing the source material, but also because in this instance there's a pretty reasonable way out of that dilemma in English: "I like Rika." It would slightly clash with Satsuki so far having generally avoided referring to Rika by name, though. Then again, we haven't gotten a lot of internal monologue for Satsuki and only know he's uncomfortable using Rika's name in conversation, not how he organizes his thoughts. Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

Whether Satsuki generally avoids using gender coded language rather than using masculine coded may indeed have colored our impressions of him slightly differently (provided that's actually the case in the source), but I don't think it really changes much.
This chapter was about Satsuki discovering/being reminded that part of him still sees Rika as a girl and how that's apparently and understandably bothering him. Whether he previously referred to Rika with masculine or neutral language doesn't change that. It's apparent either way that he wants to treat Rika with dignity and respect, so his own thoughts and gut feelings not aligning with that would naturally cause some dissonance here.

last edited at Oct 24, 2022 5:45AM

People be warned again: in Japanese, I'm pretty sure the blond guy doesn't employ any pronoun.

The translator went to great lengths to gender Rika as a "he", even in the mouth of the other characters, and it's coming back to bite them, because Japanese can do completely away with pronouns when referring to someone else. So, by using masculine pronouns, the translator changed the relationships dynamics.

Here, the guy is probably thinking that he likes Rika as a girl and that's what makes him conflicted, because it's really important for Rika to be seen as a boy by someone, so it's a form of betrayal.

When people read "I like him" in English, they read it as yaoi, when it's not the point here. Satsuki isn't gay. He's attracted to Rika as a girl.

Good intentions from the translator are misleading you.

On the other hand, Rika seems, at this point of the story, to be attracted to girls, so, in the end, this manga may end up completely Het.

That's the impression I got and I don't feel like the translation veers away from it? Like contextually it seems to be the obvious answer that he's thinking "fuck I like him as a girl and that's not good", at least that's how it read to me even with the pronouns and all that. I don't feel it's impossible he'd like him as a guy too, but the first case seems more likely given how the sequence of event went. Like the moment he says "I like him" isn't necessarily "I like him as a man" but he still is reframing and correcting himself and viewing Rika as a guy, and next chapter work through his thoughts and feelings more maybe. I don't know, I haven't read the japanese but you seem hellbent on attributing bad faith to the translation when, you haven't seem to have read the original either.

last edited at Oct 24, 2022 5:20AM

I just wanted to say that the original approach the first chapter did by gendering the "I" used was very neat, I haven't seen that before I think.

Anyhow, I like the chill approach this manga has to the gender identity of Rika. It's a nice read.
And regardless of how it's framed in the original translation, I really liked Satsuki's internal thoughts, it felt like a very human moment. It's something that can easily happen, since I'd bet most people still subconsciously attach gender to looks to some degree. And then he immediately realises that it's an issue. Goodonya Satsuki.
Looking forward to see how it'll all progress.

I really dislike the certainty with which you seem to suggest that Satsuki didn't use language that indicated a masculine reference in the "I like him." part, not only because once again you're taking a shot in the dark denigrating other people's work without knowing the source material, but also because in this instance there's a pretty reasonable way out of that dilemma in English: "I like Rika."

I suggested "I like Rika" to the typesetter elsewhere. For that very reason.

And while I don't have the raws, I've translated enough Japanese to know that there's no reasonable way for Satsuki to have said "I like HIM".

They may have used a gender neutral address, like こいつ/あいつ but using "him' (kare/otoko/etc) is for situations when you want to be specific about the gender (like for a boyfriend) and the author wants the reader to know they're talking about a man. And I doubt it's one of those situations.

And I don't denigrate anything, I'm just warning people that there's no indication of yaoi in the original, like a "I like him" could lead to think. Satsuki isn't struggling with gay panic.

I would have handled that differently is what I mean, because it's an important point in the story and the way people talk about Rika when he's not there is not gendered at all.

I suggested "I like Rika" to the typesetter elsewhere. For that very reason.

And while I don't have the raws, I've translated enough Japanese to know that there's no reasonable way for Satsuki to have said "I like HIM".

I generally agree that using the given name may have been a more target-culture-appropriate way of doing things (mind you, I don't read or speak Japanese myself and only know so much about the language), it all comes with tradeoffs. It may have more accurately represented Satsuki being on the fence when talking in third person about Rika, but at the same time Satsuki avoiding the name (at least in conversation, as said) seems to be a somewhat relevant plot point as well. I've previously argued in different discussions that I think it's okay to compromise here if the linguistic result would otherwise be awkward, so it's not like I absolutely have a horse in the race. Preserving the ambiguity might have served the story better than retaining Satsuki's avoidance of the name.

They may have used a gender neutral address, like こいつ/あいつ but using "him' (kare/otoko/etc) is for situations when you want to be specific about the gender (like for a boyfriend) and the author wants the reader to know they're talking about a man. And I doubt it's one of those situations.

That's a reasonable thing to assume, but from my moderately naive point of view I could actually see the deliberate and emphatic choice of masculine language here, since it would be one further expression of Satsuki's his internal conflict. He wants to be respectful with Rika, so internally choosing to be very specific about his gender does in my mind flow with that idea.
Inquiring minds have to know!

And I don't denigrate anything, I'm just warning people that there's no indication of yaoi in the original, like a "I like him" could lead to think. Satsuki isn't struggling with gay panic.

Maybe I read into it a bit wrongly, and I also don't really see Satsuki struggling with gay panic as being the big hangup here. To me it seemed clear that it's not so much (though still a little bit) "oh shit, I'm into a guy!" but rather "Oh shit, I'm kinda thinking of the person I like as a girl despite them making it perfectly clear that they're a guy" (gender-ambiguous language chosen deliberately to match/emphasize the assumed internal conflict). Wouldn't really make sense for Satsuki to be thinking of himself as "the worst" for being gay now, would it?

I would have handled that differently is what I mean, because it's an important point in the story and the way people talk about Rika when he's not there is not gendered at all.

I get that, translation is what I do for a living and I come to a different conclusion than my colleagues all the time. However reasonable your criticism is, it does feel a bit back-seaty to me (and I've 100% been there myself). I think it's less the actual content you denote (which I appreciate for added background), but the way you put it.
Literally warning people against a translation and then saying that you're not denigrating anything just doesn't add up.

last edited at Oct 24, 2022 9:21AM

There’s a way that all these trans manga center cis pain that really starts to tick me off

I'm really enjoying the story so far.

In my opinion, and I can't accurately explain to you exactly how I know this, but I think that Satsuki doesn't have romantic feelings for Rika. I think it's more, "Damn, no matter how little I let him see of me, he still wants to be my friend. That's a first". Like, I think he may be neurodivergent or on the spectrum in general. I can relate in some ways, me being the queer middle child with ADHD and most likely other things. From my experience, making friends and, even more difficult, maintaining relationships are hard to do with people who aren't wired similarly as you. But, damn, when you find your people, it's a beautiful feeling. You start to learn more and improve yourself without even knowing it, just from someone willingly reaching out and being patient with you.

I do definitely have other thoughts on how the story can go, but for now until there is more development, I'll keep my views open and just enjoy the story. But yeah, that's what I think. Could be wrong, could be right, could be something else. No matter which way, this is a gorgeous story. Always glad to see more representation

Damn., guess I was wrong. Well, entirely, since it seems to be only the girl version of Zika. But wow, the story just took a turn in my eyes. Still loving tho

Good intentions from the translator are misleading you.

I mean I get the whole post and I understand whatcha mean but I really think this is... kinda an awful way of putting this lol. It's the difference between translation and localization. All the intentions and themes behind the story and characterization are still there, but it's less unwieldly for English speakers to read. That's a good thing, and even though it can lead to other interpretations, it's a bit of a choice between the two. Accuracy or like, enjoyment. But I just feel you're being a bit harsh on the translation VS localization outlook, on the few posts you've made about this topic, not just this one.

There’s a way that all these trans manga center cis pain that really starts to tick me off

I totally get whatcha mean. I wonder if this author is trans.

last edited at Oct 24, 2022 1:33PM

does this count as yaoi

I don't think so, but only because I don't think Rika likes Satsuki back. I think the two of them will have an argument and just remain as friends, which means this probably doesn't deserve the yaoi tag. But I think Satsuki's crush on Rika is bl whether he wants to accept it or not.

Always nice to see more representation. Uncle seems like a profoundly chill dude, and amazingly altruistic. Would be great if the real world was filled with people like him.

And Rika's getting a lot of mileage out of that Hoodie of Protection From Dysphoria. Good reliable hoodie, the best armor.

Here, the guy is probably thinking that he likes Rika as a girl and that's what makes him conflicted, because it's really important for Rika to be seen as a boy by someone, so it's a form of betrayal.

Yes, this is clearly indicated with the line "It'd be nice if she was really my girlfriend." with my emphasis on the word girlfriend. It confuses absolutely no one that Satsuki had a fleeting thought of Rika as his girlfriend and Satsuki is perfectly aware this is a betrayal to him.

I would like you to drop the alarmist attitude in the future. Our conversation in Discord was way better than that.

last edited at Oct 25, 2022 3:11AM

Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

Making the mother of all omelettes here Jack. Can't fret over every egg.