Let’s go Song 2 by Blur, these girls are certified “woo-hoo” enjoyers

the thing is, ambiguity of relationships is one of the classic yuri tropes, and in fact it's only relatively recently that explicitly romantic, let alone sexual, relationships have become more common.

i'm not pointing this out so much to come down on one side or the other but to say that worrying about the exactly defined genre of a particular work might not be very fruitful. which for all i know is what the author is expressing in that interview excerpt.

last edited at Jun 27, 2022 2:01AM

And here I was almost lynched because I suggested they might just be friends in the end.

Looks like it's what the author is going for and I'm being vindicated.

the thing is, ambiguity of relationships is one of the classic yuri tropes, and in fact it's only relatively recently that explicitly romantic, let alone sexual, relationships have become more common.

i'm not pointing this out so much to come down on one side or the other but to say that worrying about the exactly defined genre of a particular work might not be very fruitful. which for all i know is what the author is expressing in that interview excerpt.

It might help if we get an afterword from the author once the comic is finished, one in English and Japanese (since they've said before that they can speak both). So we can get a clear understanding of their intent and ideas, what kind of relationship they're intending for these characters. I think it would be interesting to hear their thought process.

omg references to 90s old-school rock bands?? ive never expected that in a romance manga that is so amazinggg

yall seriously i think she just means it straight up because for a bunch of people yuri = porn/ecchi/horny stuff and she wanted to write something more wholesome and relaxed. How people divide it or not is not relevant.

More Adachi and Shimamura than Dragon Maid

And as was said before, in Japan authors and most of the fanbase do not make such distinctions. And even those Japanese fans who do make these distinctions use the term "yuri" for non-horny stuff.

In Japan: "rezu" = porn/ecchi/horny; "yuri" = wholesome/relaxed. The author is Japanese. Your reasoning makes absolutely no sense. If she was saying what you think she was saying, she would have said "I do not think my work is rezu."

And again, the above mentioned division in terms is only used by a fringe group of Japanese yuri fans who want to make the distinction between "pure" stuff and "horny" stuff (and are using an offensive term for the "horny" material); the industry as a whole simply refers to the genre as "yuri", regardless of the levels of horniness.

Dating someone doesn't have to be a sexual relationship, romance doesn't have to be sexual. Yuri can be a whole lot of everything, including platonic. "Nettaigyo wa Yuki ni Kogareru" is listed as Subtext on here, but I've seen a good amount of people and other websites classify it as Yuri.

While your statement is true in general, I disagree with using Nettaigyo as an example, simply because the author there went on record saying she does not label it as yuri, stating it is more about close bonds and friendships between girls (basically the same line of reasoning Agu used here). She did say that she does not mind if people head-canon Nettaigyo as yuri, but that is not the same as saying it is yuri.

Yuri can be romance and sexual, it can be romance but not sexual, or it can be sexual but not romance. Close friendship is not yuri, and Nettaigyo is about close friendships and the struggle with loneliness. The amount of subtext and the author being fine with people interpreting it as yuri makes the romance goggles perfectly acceptable, but at the same time if you want to see it as just friendship nothing is stopping you either and this is the angle the author herself took. I do think that in this case what the author said outweighs what some random websites use in their tags, especially since overt romance is simply not depicted on-screen.

last edited at Jun 27, 2022 8:57AM

I thought it was fairly clear that when the Author said he didn't think of it as Yuri, what he meant was that he was thinking about it as a romantic story that anyone who has ever been lovestruck could relate to regardless of gender and not something meant to be shoved into the girl's love box

in the end it will go where it goes.

i just noticed mitsuki is wearing a gorillaz tank on page 1 :)

How about one of you curious folks just dm/respond to one of their tweets, asking for clarification, instead of doing the old back and forth about "is this yuri or not"?

How about one of you curious folks just dm/respond to one of their tweets, asking for clarification, instead of doing the old back and forth about "is this yuri or not"?

If anyone actually does this, make sure you do not mention you are reading the series in English. Agu has stated in the past that she is not fond of scanlation piracy. The latest villainess story that was pulled from Dynasty ended up like that because the author found out about it and demanded it be taken down. Be smart, folks.

last edited at Jun 27, 2022 12:21PM

How about one of you curious folks just dm/respond to one of their tweets, asking for clarification, instead of doing the old back and forth about "is this yuri or not"?

If anyone actually does this, make sure you do not mention you are reading the series in English. Agu has stated in the past that she is not fond of scanlation piracy. The latest villainess story that was pulled from Dynasty ended up like that because the author found out about it and demanded it be taken down. Be smart, folks.

Which story?

Which story?

I'm Not Cut Out to Be a Princess, so I'll Elope with the Villainess.

Dating someone doesn't have to be a sexual relationship, romance doesn't have to be sexual. Yuri can be a whole lot of everything, including platonic. "Nettaigyo wa Yuki ni Kogareru" is listed as Subtext on here, but I've seen a good amount of people and other websites classify it as Yuri.

While your statement is true in general, I disagree with using Nettaigyo as an example, simply because the author there went on record saying she does not label it as yuri, stating it is more about close bonds and friendships between girls (basically the same line of reasoning Agu used here). She did say that she does not mind if people head-canon Nettaigyo as yuri, but that is not the same as saying it is yuri.

Yuri can be romance and sexual, it can be romance but not sexual, or it can be sexual but not romance. Close friendship is not yuri, and Nettaigyo is about close friendships and the struggle with loneliness. The amount of subtext and the author being fine with people interpreting it as yuri makes the romance goggles perfectly acceptable, but at the same time if you want to see it as just friendship nothing is stopping you either and this is the angle the author herself took. I do think that in this case what the author said outweighs what some random websites use in their tags, especially since overt romance is simply not depicted on-screen.

Thank you for the information and clarification, I was entirely out of the loop with the author statement and that's why I used it as an example. That's interesting to know, since I still hear people refer to it as a Yuri and various websites still market is as Yuri (such as Amazon where it's currently listed as 74 in Yuri manga books), so I at least think my mistake is very understandable.

Also I think at least the general idea of my point still stands, where in my opinion if the author had instead said the series is Yuri and about a more subtle and subdued love through a deep connection, it would be equally believable. So my main point is that you CAN write a very subdued and lowkey love story, one where it's not romantic or sexual but simply about a deep bond and appreciation between two people that goes beyond friendship.

Edit:

I'm Not Cut Out to Be a Princess, so I'll Elope with the Villainess.

Oh dang I didn't know that got removed, it was fun. Any idea if the creator is going to work with a publisher or something to have it released in a way where we can support them? I intend to respect the author's wishes, it can just be a little frustrating in my opinion when an author wants support but refuses to find a way to release their work in other languages, especially when the demand is there. Which is something I've seen.

last edited at Jun 27, 2022 1:53PM

So my main point is that you CAN write a very subdued and lowkey love story, one where it's not romantic or sexual but simply about a deep bond and appreciation between two people that goes beyond friendship.

I think that’s the question for many readers, though—what exactly constitutes “beyond friendship,” but is expressly not romantic and/or sexual?

(I don’t have a deep investment in tags/genre designations, since they’re mostly useful for marketing—one person’s “horror” is another person’s “thriller.” But a lot of people do seem to care deeply).

So my main point is that you CAN write a very subdued and lowkey love story, one where it's not romantic or sexual but simply about a deep bond and appreciation between two people that goes beyond friendship.

I think that’s the question for many readers, though—what exactly constitutes “beyond friendship,” but is expressly not romantic and/or sexual?

(I don’t have a deep investment in tags/genre designations, since they’re mostly useful for marketing—one person’s “horror” is another person’s “thriller.” But a lot of people do seem to care deeply).

I think it's an understandable question, and I think that's honestly often part of the point of series like that. Where the characters are also uncertain, at least to an extent. Since relationships are usually complicated, and there's many forms of love and ways it can take shape.

Also funny you mention thriller/horror, when I see marketing for Attack on Titan skewered between the two labels haha

I was the one side in that argument stating that she said, in her interview, that she didn't consider the story she's currently writing as yuri (ie, romance between girls), but as "female close relationship" or something. Ie, Gal Pals. Or subtext.

Afk was arguing that she implied "so far", I was arguing that she's talking about the whole story in general.

Not yuri then. Friendly affection between girls. The warmth of having a gal pal who is really close to you, like a soulmate, and really understands you.

This chapter really drives the point home.

This reminds me of an episode of People Watching. The entire thing is about how popular culture heavily devalues friendships and tries to center everything on sexual relationships despite that being "Fucking lame."

Dating someone doesn't have to be a sexual relationship, romance doesn't have to be sexual. Yuri can be a whole lot of everything, including platonic. "Nettaigyo wa Yuki ni Kogareru" is listed as Subtext on here, but I've seen a good amount of people and other websites classify it as Yuri.

Also as for the video you linked, I feel it largely centralizes around the concept that men and women can be friends, without it being sexual or romantic. However there's also a very good comment on that video talking about relationships and the fears people have, the last part of said comment is "Their relationship is primed for a powerful and stable romantic relationship, but they refrain from moving their friendship to a romantic stage from fear of losing the existing trust and support. It is ironic, and in my opinion, bittersweet.", which I think is a very good point. People CAN just be friends, but they can also be more than friends without things being sexual or even romantic. It's a complicated topic, and feelings are hard to sort through, as humans we're messy unsure creatures.

With this manga we're on a website that focuses on sharing romantic F/F comics, and so a lot of people want to see them at least date, hold hands, fall in love and bond over music. I don't think everyone on here wants to see them fuck. I do think whatever relationship the author goes for should be interesting. There's nothing wrong with platonic friendships, nonsexual romances, and sexual relationships. Everyone has their preferences.

I'm a bit mixed. On one hand, hell yeah female friendships forming over a beautiful hobby that gets them kinda ostracised from others. On the other hand, it feels very much like galpal erasure of gay girls because they're just really close friends. Nothing's final until the author says so of course, but the path seems to be getting clearer.

I will definitely still follow this story, but just a bit disheartened now.

Yeah there's also I think the gay erasure aspect to consider here. Where so many same sex relationships just get dismissed as purely friends. As I said in my comments above, this series can still be Yuri, Women's Love, or however you want to define it where they're in something along the lines of maybe a platonic love relationship, that isn't romantic or sexual, but they're still more than friends.

Thank you, FluffyCow. This is an excellent comment and I mostly agree. I don't think Sumiko will show them being sexually explicit, but I have a feeling there will be lots of attachment and strong emotion between Mitsuki and Aya. Maybe Sumiko will lead up to those sexual moments with passion, emotion, and intensity, but it will be left to the reader to discern with their imagination or with subtext.

Thank you, FluffyCow. This is an excellent comment and I mostly agree. I don't think Sumiko will show them being sexually explicit, but I have a feeling there will be lots of attachment and strong emotion between Mitsuki and Aya. Maybe Sumiko will lead up to those sexual moments with passion, emotion, and intensity, but it will be left to the reader to discern with their imagination or with subtext.

Thanks! Yeah I think leaving things to the reader's imagination with sexual elements is fine, I'm mostly hoping to see the attachment and strong emotions you mentioned. I think a very deep connection between the characters is at least hopefully guaranteed, regardless of what form their relationship takes.

I'm not sure why y'all are arguing about the artists intent in the interview. I went back through the whole manga, and it is really hard to read this story as anything other than a romance. You have to ignore a whole lot of awkward looks and blushing to see this as a close friendship.

I'm not sure why y'all are arguing about the artists intent in the interview. I went back through the whole manga, and it is really hard to read this story as anything other than a romance. You have to ignore a whole lot of awkward looks and blushing to see this as a close friendship.

I think the author apparently refusing the "yuri" label gave people war flashbacks of bait stories or something

anyways, mitsuki sure had a fever because she was looking HOT on that first page

All those songs are on my playlist

I'm not sure why y'all are arguing about the artists intent in the interview. I went back through the whole manga, and it is really hard to read this story as anything other than a romance. You have to ignore a whole lot of awkward looks and blushing to see this as a close friendship.

Exactly the same reason why people dismissed the scanlator of Nettaigyo when he posted about Hagino saying she does not consider it yuri. "Lololol what are you on about, do you see the amount of blushing and handholding and etc., of course it is romance, it can not be anything else lolololol." Cue Nettaigyo ending. Cue people in the comments complaining how they were baited. I think it is reasonable to temper expectations here. Given that statement from Agu I personally doubt we will see anything more than subtext at best. I would not mind being proven wrong, though.

Oh dang I didn't know that got removed, it was fun. Any idea if the creator is going to work with a publisher or something to have it released in a way where we can support them? I intend to respect the author's wishes, it can just be a little frustrating in my opinion when an author wants support but refuses to find a way to release their work in other languages, especially when the demand is there. Which is something I've seen.

Regrettably, the series in question seems to fall into the category you described at the end here. The author was angry about the scanlation and demanded it be pulled down ("I want you to stop reading for free" was the phrasing they used, though they later deleted that tweet), but we have no indications that an English release of any kind is in the making.

based music taste tho

I'm not sure why y'all are arguing about the artists intent in the interview. I went back through the whole manga, and it is really hard to read this story as anything other than a romance. You have to ignore a whole lot of awkward looks and blushing to see this as a close friendship.

Exactly the same reason why people dismissed the scanlator of Nettaigyo when he posted about Hagino saying she does not consider it yuri. "Lololol what are you on about, do you see the amount of blushing and handholding and etc., of course it is romance, it can not be anything else lolololol." Cue Nettaigyo ending. Cue people in the comments complaining how they were baited. I think it is reasonable to temper expectations here. Given that statement from Agu I personally doubt we will see anything more than subtext at best. I would not mind being proven wrong, though.

Oh dang I didn't know that got removed, it was fun. Any idea if the creator is going to work with a publisher or something to have it released in a way where we can support them? I intend to respect the author's wishes, it can just be a little frustrating in my opinion when an author wants support but refuses to find a way to release their work in other languages, especially when the demand is there. Which is something I've seen.

Regrettably, the series in question seems to fall into the category you described at the end here. The author was angry about the scanlation and demanded it be pulled down ("I want you to stop reading for free" was the phrasing they used, though they later deleted that tweet), but we have no indications that an English release of any kind is in the making.

Nettaigyo was pushing the boundaries of subtext, to an obnoxious degree. This, on the other hand, is built around the premise that Aya has fallen in love with Mitsuki, as the boy that she thinks Mitsuki is. Aya is described as not having much interest in boys, which would indicate to me (and probably to most others) that Aya is gay. If this really isn't the case, then it may well be the worst example of subtext I've ever seen, and Agu is out of their mind writing a story with this premise, and thinking that people aren't going to expect it to end with a romance.

isn't there a movement to kinda divorce "women's love" works from yuri? I agree here that from this section it sounds like the author doesn't want to be bound to the genre conventions of "yuri" and just write a queer story.

Yeah, there's a big difference between Nettaigyo's "it's not yuri it's friendship" and saying "it's not yuri it's women's love."

Yuri is a pretty amorphous term, but as a genre in Japan it's generally gonna be referring to the sweet, fluffy, non-explicit schoolgirls crushing on schoolgirls style of stories. The kinda stories that might own up to it being love, but aren't ever gonna admit that hey, these two girls are gay and might date other girls in the future. Which is why Yuri is frequently not viewed as that socially disruptive for what seems to outsiders like obviously queer romance - the Japanese mainstream can interpret it as a safe exploration of female romantic feelings as practice for eventually entering adulthood and heterosexuality. A big reason why yuri titles so rarely have male characters at all - because if there were actually eligible boyfriends out there in the story universe than it would be way too queer for girls to be crushing on girls anyway.

So terms like women's love are used mostly by queer female writers who want to write stories that are explicitly queer without that layer of "j/k it's just close friendship bro" that yuri so often has. Saying it's not yuri in that context isn't a nettaigyo situation, it's basically the exact opposite, "it's not about close friendship it's about lesbians."

isn't there a movement to kinda divorce "women's love" works from yuri? I agree here that from this section it sounds like the author doesn't want to be bound to the genre conventions of "yuri" and just write a queer story.

Yeah, there's a big difference between Nettaigyo's "it's not yuri it's friendship" and saying "it's not yuri it's women's love."

Yuri is a pretty amorphous term, but as a genre in Japan it's generally gonna be referring to the sweet, fluffy, non-explicit schoolgirls crushing on schoolgirls style of stories. The kinda stories that might own up to it being love, but aren't ever gonna admit that hey, these two girls are gay and might date other girls in the future. Which is why Yuri is frequently not viewed as that socially disruptive for what seems to outsiders like obviously queer romance - the Japanese mainstream can interpret it as a safe exploration of female romantic feelings as practice for eventually entering adulthood and heterosexuality. A big reason why yuri titles so rarely have male characters at all - because if there were actually eligible boyfriends out there in the story universe than it would be way too queer for girls to be crushing on girls anyway.

So terms like women's love are used mostly by queer female writers who want to write stories that are explicitly queer without that layer of "j/k it's just close friendship bro" that yuri so often has. Saying it's not yuri in that context isn't a nettaigyo situation, it's basically the exact opposite, "it's not about close friendship it's about lesbians."

I can't agree with a lot of this. I've seen Yuri used for everything under the sun involving love between two women. Explicit content, SFW content. Ambiguous and Subtle relationships, confirmed relationships. Fluffy ones, sexual ones.

This also makes no sense to me when some people in the West have tried to argue for years that "Yuri is sexual content", and "Shoujo Ai is Fluffy". People have pushed against this saying Yuri in Japan embraces sexual, fluffy, and everything else. Yuri is a Japanese term and the definition is created by Japanese people, Westerners should not be able to define it for them.

Yuri manga and media for 10+ years has embraced being gay into adulthood, and relationships that start in younger years continuing into their adult lives. For awhile now many Yuri manga have time skip sections at the end where they're shown in their adult years, still together. Also, Office Lady Yuri has been a very popular subgenre for awhile now, along with Yuri manga and one-shots revolving around subjects like prostitution, along with other Yuri media focusing on adult lesbians.

There are currently successful openly gay Japanese mangaka who have no issue with using the term Yuri, and I saw one just the other day saying she makes her Yuri media for gay women. The term Yuri is valid, and it's valid for creators like her to call herself a creator of Yuri. I try to take artists at their word, and not what I think their word is.

Also this whole discussion and forum thread boils down to ultimately, Semantics. It's all different kinds of terms/words like "Women's Love" and "Yuri" that all have broad vague meanings that umbrella a lot, and all ultimately mean the same thing at the end of the day. People just have varying opinions on what these words mean and which is better. It's more or less an argument of Potato Chip vs Potato Crisp basically.